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Splitting in Two

Started by Jillieann Rose, December 19, 2006, 05:47:46 PM

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Ricki

Jill,
i know exactly what you are saying ... i think
QuoteCompromise is what JR and I have to do to survive and the thought of find another body is pure science fiction.
Sad
I've made many compromises in my short lifetime.. For good and bad.....
what does your heart tell you ??...........not your gender?
Ricki
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Mia and Marq

We must be very cautious not to take the term bigendered for what it looks like it might mean in a literary sense. The description of a bigendered individual as quoted from wikipedia is:

Bigender (bi+gender) is a tendency to move between masculine and feminine gender-typed behaviour depending on context, expressing a distinctly male persona and a distinctly female persona.

While an androgynous person retains the same gender-typed behaviour across situations, the bigendered person purposely changes their gender-role behaviour for the situation.

So bigendered described a much smaller subset of people, and from talking with those who identify as bigendered, we all exhibit very similiar experiences and feelings as Jilleann and JR will agree.

Melissa,
I'm curious to hear why you feel that both of your personas are both female if one demonstrates obvious masculine traits.

Having a male and female persona, there are really 3 categories of preference of sex. One is to prefer to look like and be the male sex because for whatever reason the female persona is ok with that. The second is to look like and be the female sex because once again the male persona is comfortable with that, and third would be to look like and/or be a combination of male and female sex. It would not be unheard of to just have male and female personas, be born a male, and prefer to be the female sex physically and make efforts to change it such as through operations and hormones.

In the case of Nero, it would seem were they bigendered that they could very well be content transitioning because they identify as the male sex though they were been born female.

As far as duality of nature goes, yes someone can have duality of nature, but in the case of bigendered people, their duality is from having male and female seperate but together.

Mia and Marq
Being given the gift of two-spirits meant that this individual had the ability to see the world from two perspectives at the same time. This greater vision was a gift to be shared, and as such, Two-spirited beings were revered as leaders, mediators, teachers, artists, seers, and spiritual guides
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Jillieann Rose

Yes what Marq and Mia said.
Elizabeth I do not believe everyone is Bi-gender. We as humans may have what we consider both masculine and feminine traits. And more so here in the transgender community as many of us had to suffer because of being born in a different gender then the body is.
And as Melissa said
QuoteSometimes I  can actually separate the 2 sides and actually have 2 simultaneous, but separate thought processes going on.  It's really eerie when I do that and usually pretty draining at the same time.  Also, many times I can have them work on the same process and the speed at which I think can be downright scary.
Yes but for bi-genders it is not sometimes it is all the time. But the two are very complex complete people who could actual function without the other one.

I think we are kind of like of twins (opposite gender) but in the same body.
Jillieann likes things that I (JR) don't really care for and I like things she would rather not do.
And we both feel that life would be some much easier if we had separate bodies, because we have to do allot of compromising between or ourselves. If you read some of Jillieann early posting you will see that she had decide to not let other people control her and now she discovered that I (JR) was real and not a character that she created to please sociality. Oh Wow another mind blower.

How could I (Jillieann) deny that he was real? I think it was because I so badly wanted to be real myself after haven't been push down and locked away in what I call a prison in our mind for so many years. I just didn't want anything to do with him. I hated the though of his existence. JR I am so sorry about that. But I so much want to be the female physically that I am. 
I understand Jillieann and I hope you forgive me for lock you away in our mind for all those years. It was a survival tactics but not a very good one.  And forgive me for trying to push you back down in the prison again.

Again we are not the same person with different traits or being able to process things on two levels. We are two people in one body that can usually tell what the other is thinking and feeling. So that it affects both of us.
Hope this helps as far as understanding the world I live in.
Jillieann and JR

 
   
 
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Ricki

Jill..
i understand what you're saying at least i think, for me its a very deep thing and how you state it and speak of it i see it and understand what you are talking about?  shame huh!..to have to have all that going on, when these rooms in our heads could serve better purposes...
Ricki
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Sangre y Leche

Hmm, interesting thread, I'll think out loud what I feel about this right now. This might change  ;D
Excuse me for a long post again... my compliments to those of you who read it all through  >:D

I think I can definately call myself a bigendered androgyn, because sometimes the man in me is upfront and sometimes it's the woman in me who is upfront. At the same time I see myself being double gendered, but I also see myself as one person. This contradiction is in many things I feel, think, experience. Yin-yang, the one doesn't exclude the other, it is not one ór the other but one ánd the other for me. Even if there are times that it feels like one is more in control then the other.

I do feel strongly that there is a centre between the two. This center is ME, and it is double-gendered. From this centre, I can see what's going on at the time,  if it's the man or woman in me who has the most influence. It gives me the ability to walk in two worlds, and the more I get to know myself and those two genders in me, the more I have control and can use those different genders in me. For example, sometimes I need to be very feminine sensitive, and I choose there and then to let the female in me do 'her' job. On other moments I really need the man in me!
(In this sentence I write:" 'her' job" or I can write: " let 'him' do the talking", but actually I am one. Yes, two or even three in one, but still I am one. Again, for me it is yin yang, one and the other.)

I think this subject is very complicated because we don't really know how it works biologically. I myself am convinced that androginity is something that is primarily a biological thing, but it has great effects on our psyche. Because both body and soul work together pretty close, both will have an effect on the other.

Carl Yung was teaching about the male and female side in all of us, every male has the archetype of the woman in him, and vice versa. The animus and anima. Does that mean that being bigendered has got something to do with the psychological imbalance between the two? No, I don't think that this is the case for people who are truly androgyne/bigendered. I think that, talking about myself here, this is something that is in my body, my brains, that I was born with. Not a psychological 'disfunction'.
But, at the same time, it is something very complicated that I have to learn to live with. For me that is not something I don't like, actually the more I know myself, the more I see the benefits from it.

In most shaman cultures it where the androgynes who where educated to be a shaman. That is not for nothing, that is because we do have the ability to walk and understand both worlds. But the thing is, that in our culture it is not an accepted thing and people tend to believe that we are nuts.  ;)
Well, nuts or not, I have to deal with ME here, and live with my both sides. And yes, sometimes both sides have their conflicts.

For me, personally, if I would devide myself in two almost seperate people, I would loose control because I would loose my centre. This is purely speaking for myself here, I don't know how that is for others. So even if I definately do experience it like sometimes the man is most on the foreground and sometimes the woman is more to the foreground, I always have the double gendered centre that is me. If I loose that centre, I loose myself and my ability to  be in controll. This doesn't always mean that I can control it, when my hormones rage then that's me ->-bleeped-<-ed hahaha, but anyway it gives me control and/or understanding to a certain point.

So, what do I actually want to say with this?  ::) eh.... eh... ah yeah, for me, I feel I get out of balance whenever one of my sides is trying to push the other side away. I recognise these states in which one wants to get rid of the other, but that never makes me feel good. If it makes me feel bad, I know I do something wrong there. For me it is important to learn to live with the both genders (actually with the 3 genders) inside of me. Making one the enemy is making myself into the enemy. Because in the end, they are all me.

I can't say how that is for others here. We are all different, but we also have something pretty special and beautifull in common. Our ability to walk in the world of both genders. It's not an easy task to accept that, to accept both (or all three) sides in us, to feel not nuts. Society doesn't exactly help in that, and sometimes I feel that we are forced by others to make a choice. I don't want to make a choice, I feel very complete with the two genders in me! I do believe that if we go in war with ourselves, we have to face the most horrible enemy there is. But the more we know ourselves and learn to use our sides, the more complete we are as one person. And yes, sometimes the one is in the way of the other. For me, that is an internal conflict. And I feel the most warm and complete when there is at least some understanding between the two/three sides in me. Opposites bound to one centre. Me.


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Jillieann Rose

Sangre y Leche,
I can relate to allot of what you have said here. You defiantly are a bi-gender person and we have much in common. You call the center, where the two meet, a control point and a third person. For me it's not a third person, I just feel that it is both sides working together. The two of us decide which one is more appropriate for the situation. We are learning to corporate not control each other. When we do corporate we find the most peace and we feel whole.
I am glad that you posted and it was a very good read. And it didn't seem very long to me.
:) :)
Jillieann/JR 


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Sangre y Leche

Thanks Jillieann/JR  :)
I do see myself as being from 3 genders, woman, man, and a combination of both so to say. But I don't see the centre as a third person, I see the centre as the whole of me. One. Me.
I hope this makes it a bit more clear.
Ah yeah, and I completely agree that it is all about co-operation and not about one being in control of the other. Sometimes one is in control, but if it is a forced control instead of a choosen control, then something is wrong on that moment. It happens, and mosltly when it happens I have a problem.  ;)

You didn't find it long to read? Wow haha...  :-*
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Casey

That's really interesting Sangre y Leche. I see myself simply as that control point from which my male and female energies flow. I try not to control the energies but allow myself to feel things as I feel them. Like you, if I force how I feel instead of simply recognizing how I feel and acting according to that, I end up in not so good a place.

It seems like the more we share here the more we discover what being an androgyne is all about. I'm not sure we would have thought to think about some of those things on our own. And the nice thing is the more we learn the more we can share with those who are just starting to explore themselves. How cool is that?

Oh and Sangre y Leche, I didn't consider that a long post. Medium maybe, but not long. Sometimes what you have to say can't be said in a few paragraphs. Sometimes it SHOULDN'T be said in a few paragraphs. I like to warn people if I feel a long one coming on too. There's nothing worse than having to get a refil in the middle of a post.  ;D
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Mia and Marq

I have to agree with Jilleann/JR and Sangre y Leche about the third or middle being a combination. I always give people the example of two people standing at a podium. When you ask us a question, one of the two that is best suited to answer the question or situation steps foward to answer it. A trade off to best handle the situation. Sometimes though they both step foward to answer it together. This isn't a third person or gender for me, just a collaborated effort of Marq and Mia.

Some things to think about concerning be bigendered, have your personas been given their own unique names. One would be amazed to find out how much name recognition means to someone. I hit a new level of balance when I actually gave them their own names, more specifically Mia who had been the silent partner for most of our life spreading influence without any of the credit. I gave her credit finally and everything connected suddently. It was most extraordinary.

Just our humble ramblings
Marq and Mia
Being given the gift of two-spirits meant that this individual had the ability to see the world from two perspectives at the same time. This greater vision was a gift to be shared, and as such, Two-spirited beings were revered as leaders, mediators, teachers, artists, seers, and spiritual guides
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Jillieann Rose

I, JR was talking to this Jillieann about how unhappy she was. And I gave her permission to become the woman that she has said she wants to be.
I, JR have used and controlled this body for over 50 years and believe I would feel fine as a women. 

Her, Jillieann first reaction was thankfulness, then she called me a dirty old man. ;D
She said I just wanted too become a woman so I could enjoy her body. She is very happy now. But we have not made any plans and I'm not sure if we will.
I, Jillieann am very happy that JR is willing to become a woman for me.
But for now I'm not so sure how far or what we shall do. Anyway I am at peace with JR.
Thank you again for all of your posting to this topic.
:) :)
Jillieann and JR
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Melissa

Quote from: Marq and Mia on December 22, 2006, 09:29:41 PM
Melissa,
I'm curious to hear why you feel that both of your personas are both female if one demonstrates obvious masculine traits.

Having a male and female persona, there are really 3 categories of preference of sex. One is to prefer to look like and be the male sex because for whatever reason the female persona is ok with that. The second is to look like and be the female sex because once again the male persona is comfortable with that, and third would be to look like and/or be a combination of male and female sex. It would not be unheard of to just have male and female personas, be born a male, and prefer to be the female sex physically and make efforts to change it such as through operations and hormones.
Perhaps that's what it is.  I know physically I have to be female and personality-wise, it's how I described.

Melissa
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Ricki

Thanks sangre,
i agree with Casey that was interesting and insightful...
Sometimes i think outloud?  Hmm that's not the same thing as talking outloud when you are just trying to think outloud is it>?
darn i end up saying something i should not of said???
it's me i know it???
Ricki
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Elizabeth

Hi everyone,

I am one person. I don't feel a sense of duality at all. I used to have a personna that I played, but in my mind I was always me.  I have never had a sense of a him and a her.

Love always,
Elizabeth
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Sangre y Leche

@ Ricky, you get me language confused haha...  :)

Quote from: Elizabeth on December 28, 2006, 01:25:50 AM
Hi everyone,

I am one person. I don't feel a sense of duality at all. I used to have a personna that I played, but in my mind I was always me.  I have never had a sense of a him and a her.

Love always,
Elizabeth


I think it's very interesting what we experience as the "I" in us...

'Unfortunately'  I don't know if I will see the following replies for the next two months, the day after tomorrow I fly from the Netherlands to Malaysia for 7 weeks  ;D

Take care everyone and a verry happy 2007 to you all!
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