Labeling... It happens in every sector of our society, leaders, or so-called leaders, use this tactic to create an evil force that motivates us to stand up and fight for goodness, morality, justice. 

Religion, race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, political beliefs, you name it, where there is a person trying to push their agenda and elevate themselves, we'll see a "leader" label someone or some group as being evil so as to get the crowd rallied around them.

There's another term used for this tactic, it's called DIVIDE AND CONQUER.

The most often cited 'evils we have to battle' depend on the venue. 

In politics it's pretty cut and dried, it's the other party that's the evil force.

In religion it's the devil and who he has under his control. 

I could go on but you get the point.

What I think we tend not to focus on enough is how we are one of the evils used to rally people together.  And that means they are rallied against us.  Lesbian, gay, transgender, in the eyes of the mainstream public we're mostly evil.

Gay men are often painted as child molesters.  Or, at the very least, emasculating individuals who care more about their appearance than their fellow human being.

Lesbians are militant dykes trying to eliminate that which society sees and holds dearly as feminine.  Or maybe just soft porn figures for men to dream about.

Transgender persons are perverts that will destroy our morality if we don't keep them down.  Or people who are mentally unstable because they want to surgically alter their oh-so precious genitals.

But where does the evil really originate?  As transgender persons, we know in our heart what our intentions and motives are.  As for myself, I'd love to see a world where people just accept each other for who they are.  As long as you aren't hurting someone else, you are doing no wrong.  And if you're helping someone else, you are making the world a better place in which to live.  I see most of us wanting the latter.  That's certainly not evil.

That only means one thing, the evil is coming from the people who portray us as evil, the so-called leaders.

When the gay marriage bill was up for vote, I passed a nearby church.  Out in front it said, "Man and wife. GOD made it that way!"  Now if that isn't hate mongering, I don't know what is.  And this was coming from a group that calls themselves Christians, followers of the teachings of Jesus Christ.  I don't see Christ preaching hatred and intolerance if he were alive today.  It makes you wonder who is being 'controlled by the devil'.

People who want to attain power need to divide and conquer.  You can't please all the people all the time so you have to do it in sections.  They do that by labeling someone else and painting them in a bad light.  Like minded people rally around them and their star begins to shine.  Their motives rarely have anything to do with promoting love, acceptance, kindness and caring.  They are usually motivated by ego.  In other words, their motive is selfish.  And the public buys into it.  Why?  Because they think they're fighting evil.  It's a noble cause!  The so-called leader has given their dull lives something to believe in, something to fight for.  But they can't see the hurt that results from supporting this person.

Now I may be seen as guilty for doing exactly what I'm criticizing here.  And maybe I am.  But my motives aren't to gain power, money and fame.  My motive is simply, I want to live a life in peace and I want all those who suffer from this injustice to also live a life in peace.  I just want to be me.  And I want that for everyone.  If that's selfish, so be it.

Before we can go even one step in improving our situation we need to do something within ourselves, we need to stop labeling ourselves.  We have to stop calling gender identity conflict a disorder.  We have to stop seeing ourselves as transgender, crossdresser, transsexual or androgyne.  We have to see ourselves as people, as creatures of God, who deserve love and respect just as much as anyone on this planet.

Look at the posts here and on every TG forum you'll find.  We see it everywhere, "What am I?  CD, TG, TS, Andro, gay, les, bi?"  By labeling ourselves we attach to ourselves the stigmas society has attached to that label.  And too often we end up carrying the guilt we've been taught we should carry for being "that way".  This puts us in a weak position and when the enemy is weakened you can conquer them.  Divide and conquer.  Labels divide. 

Label yourself. How do you feel?

Refuse to label yourself.  How do you feel?

Which makes you feel better?

If we were going to label ourselves I'd rather see "PACIFIST" than anything else.  Politicians can't argue with that.  Religious leaders can't argue with that.  Racial leaders can't argue with that.  No one in the limelight can argue with that unless they want to be called a hateful war-monger.

Okay, I'll accept that label.  Pacifist.  Anyone want to join me?

Julie

Julie,

I'm a dyed in the wool pacifist.   I enjoyed your post very much.  I think along the same lines.  One of the problems with popular religious thinking is the good vs evil paradigm.  You can't have good without evil.  It naturally pits one against the other in every facet of society.

The Nazi party perfected this form of hatred to dominate Germany in the last century. I know that people are quick to make comparisons with the Nazi's when discussing politics but it is a lesson well worth understanding. We need to see just how effective they were at doing this.

Hatred is insidious.  There is no end to it.  Once you have vanquished your innocent victim, you need to find another to persecute.  It is all done under the guise of righteousness.  Certainly, this is not what the great teacher intended.  In fact, in all stories of him, he cautioned against it. His message against hatred was clear: "Let him who is not guilty, cast the first stone."

Hatred begets hatred.  It is hard for the receiving party to not return it.  Vengance is the primary tool for returning the unwelcomed gift.  The cycle is hard, if not impossible, to break.  This is why I'm a pacifist.  The cycle of hatred stops with me.  While I find it hard to forgive at times, the endless hatred has to stop somewhere, so it stops with me.

Yes, Julie, it all starts with labels.  It's served as a two word campaign phrase or a cheap one liner that all the lemmings can easily remember or yell to rythm.  We've seen this tactic used all too frequently in the past few years as a campaign tactic to tip elections in key areas. 

Divide and conquer.  That's what it is all about.  A tool to control us.  How long does it take before we recognize the tactic for what it is?

Cindi

I totally disagree with this post.

I think, sadly, transsexualism and denying reality often go together like Mel Gibson and making splattermovie snuff films.

I see people talking about voice and passing as if they as some pie in the sky abstract concept. I see people justifying self-centered decisions with wives and family members with no discernable connection to reality.

I don't understand the appeal of denying all labels, but I live with two TSs that do. They are both M2Fs in a relationship. If you try to point out that they are lesbians, they will deny this all day long. They want to feel as though they are so special that they eshew clasification.

News flash - transsexualism is pretty predictable. As is transvestism. And those of us with it are highly classifiable. Passes, doesn't pass, straight, gay, op, non-op - this is not complicated.

Bri

Quote from: Julie Marie on December 30, 2006, 08:33:39 AM
Religion, race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, political beliefs, you name it, where there is a person trying to push their agenda and elevate themselves, we'll see a "leader" label someone or some group as being evil so as to get the crowd rallied around them.

Someone once said, "If the Devil didn't exist, we would have to invent him."

Saints couldn't exist without sinners to shun.

Kate

Hi There:

Labeling hmmm - seems to be a bit of fear mongering to me.  The old saying of "better the devil you know than the devil you don't" applies.  What people don't know (or who they don't know) , they seem to fear.  Fear what this may do to their positions in society, will they loose "power".  To me this is what it is all about.  Education is our lot in life.  As we teach and educate others about what they fear the walls begin to fall. As we learn about what "we fear" the walls begin to fall.

Gill

Hmmmmm labels, labels, labels.

QuoteWe have to see ourselves as people, as creatures of God, who deserve love and respect just as much as anyone on this planet.

I see being called a creature of god just as offensive as other labels that people use, it's another case of someone imposing on me of their view of how the world should be.

QuoteLook at the posts here and on every TG forum you'll find.  We see it everywhere, "What am I?  CD, TG, TS, Andro, gay, les, bi?"  By labeling ourselves we attach to ourselves the stigmas society has attached to that label.  And too often we end up carrying the guilt we've been taught we should carry for being "that way".  This puts us in a weak position and when the enemy is weakened you can conquer them.  Divide and conquer.  Labels divide.

Labels can also unite, and when united, groups can become powerful forces under those labels, forces that must be recognized.  It is unfortunate that issues such as same sex marriage in the U.S. is still being met with such hostility and opposition but does that mean that gays and lesbians should drop their labels and conform to some other notion, I think not.

I agree that labels can be divisive and used to oppress, and persecute, but they are almost impossible to negate.  Based on your statements it would seem that life in the U.S. is fraught with danger if you are labeled.  But to be honest I don't think it is as bad as you make it out to be.  Yes you have hard line, right wing, religious states, but you also have very progressive and liberal states.

Personally I think the best way to fight the stigmas that are sometimes attached to labels/groups is with education, and demonstration that we are no more of a threat than the next group of labels. Sure there are those among us who may be child molesters, bank robbers, adulterers etc. just as in any group and I have not been taught to carry the guilt we've been taught we should carry for being "that way".

Seems like a little fear mongering to me...

Refusing to label is pointless as I feel that at the very least I am a human being, a female, a woman, the weaker sex, the other half, the better half, a bitch, a parent, an ex service person, white, anglo saxon, caucasian, Canadian, North American, employed, middle class, liberal, high school drop out, middle aged, heterosexual, social drinker, transsexual, (Gill said idiot), partner, wife spouse.

QuoteWhich makes you feel better?

All of them

QuoteIf we were going to label ourselves I'd rather see "PACIFIST" than anything else.  Politicians can't argue with that.  Religious leaders can't argue with that.  Racial leaders can't argue with that.  No one in the limelight can argue with that unless they want to be called a hateful war-monger.

Okay, I'll accept that label.  Pacifist.  Anyone want to join me?

Julie

Nope not in this case Julie

Steph

Good morning, Julie!  Thank you for another thought-provoking topic.  Allow me to groove on it, if I may..

Yes, labels are used to identify and control.

As to labeling oneself, I'd do it all the time as an Army NCO.  "Soldier, before we begin your counseling session (for your willful f[oul] up,) I just want you to know up front I'm an @_____3."  Now that soldier was denied the chance to try to control me or demonize me because I already agreed with him or her that I am a demon, and that I'm comfortable with being labeled as such.  THAT takes all the fun out of the veiled 'game', "If you don't do as I wish, I'm gonna label you something bad."  It's a lot less fun when the victim doesn't get upset at the bad label.

The conservatives who are most likely to demonize any and all transsexuals -- as well as gay/lesbian, etc. -- have a morality in which there is a very narrow absolutely-bounded range of behaviours we are 'free' to engage in (what they mean when they talk about "Freedom".)  They often refer to this narrowly bounded acceptable behaviour as 'The Straight and Narrow', and we are 'free' to live our lives any way we wish -- as long as our behaviour stays inbounds.

Those who jump the guardrails and proceed off into the boonies of 'immoral, unacceptable' behaviour have deviated from the Straight and Narrow Path of Moral Righteousness and MUST be punished for their transgression of a clearly defined boundary, lest some innocent child (who hasn't yet 'learned' that behavour is wrong and immoral,) is also lost over the guardrail on a path of sin and degradation.  So, of course the moral police have to step in and do their job, and make sure that the necessary retribution is exacted on us deviants in order to bring the moral books back into balance.  They have to defend THE MORALITY from us, as if even one of us left in existence will bring the morality crashing down around their ears.  Such a big job!  And with such great job security, too!

About 40% of our population believe the above describes how the world works to a 'T', and will not be reasoned with that GLBT behaviour, while somewhat rare in the population as a whole, is every bit as 'natural' as "Man and wife. GOD made it that way!"

Kate, someone else said "If God didn't exist, we'd have to invent Him."  Christian Conservatives have (re)created God in their image.  Is it any wonder god is always on their side, blessing their atrocities to their fellow man in the name of defending religious morality?

I believe God is unknowable by us mere beings.  He doesn't have time to play with us like a carbon-based Sim-Earth.  Besides, on the other end of the scale, the other 40% of the population doesn't react strictly to the carrot-and-stick morality the Conservatives believe EVERYBODY reacts to. (Yes, there's an unaccounted-for 20%,  They share both views, and waffle back and forth on the issues, depending on which issue they see from a conservative or a liberal point of view.)  He/she/it's off somewhere playing with supernovae, and maybe will check back in a couple of millenia to see how we're doing.  Meanwhile, we have to solve our own problems.  By ourselves.  And we ain't gonna' be saved by rapture, so we'd better start cleaning up all the co2 we've messed the house up with.  We're "Home Alone", but god ain't panicking and trying to get a plane ticket back from the edge of the universe.  If the hose blows up, oh well...

Cindi remarked in a post a while back that for the you-are-what-you're-born-with-and-that's-it! crowd, she'll tell them she's a eunuch.  Here's the idea explored a little further.

We ARE going to be labeled by that 40%.  Oh, well.  I too wish they'd stop and accept us, but I doubt very much that will happen, human nature what it is.  I just accept that there will be people who will have a hissy over the fact that deviants such as I exist, and try to identify and avoid them as early on as possible.

Maybe this is why so many of us desire to pass 100% of the time -- it lowers the level of animosity in individual, one-on-one contacts with persons who have the potential for bigoted hostility towards deviants.  But it doesn't lower the overall level of societal animosity towards us.  That's the downside of stealth -- it actually SUPPORTS the bigots' positions.

I don't like labels, and being labeled.  But politically correct language only made non-PC words more powerful.  Fighting labels will only make them and those who do the labeling more powerful.

Karen

Labels. I don't like being defined by them, they can box one in and limit the full breadth of who you are. On the other hand, sometimes one finds community with people who are labeled similarly. Here we all are at this online forum, why?, because, we identify with a certain label.

I'm with you as considering myself a pacifist. Utah Phillips, a great folksinger/storyteller/activist, tells this story of becoming a pacifist. He says, we're all violent. It's like being an alcoholic, he says he looks in the mirror in the morning and says, I'm violent, and I make a choice to live and act non violently.

zythyra (a human being who happens to be transgendered, Jewish, musician, etc....)

Quote from: zythyra on December 30, 2006, 01:40:01 PM
Labels. I don't like being defined by them, they can box one in and limit the full breadth of who you are. On the other hand, sometimes one finds community with people who are labeled similarly. Here we all are at this online forum, why?, because, we identify with a certain label.

I'm with you as considering myself a pacifist. Utah Phillips, a great folksinger/storyteller/activist, tells this story of becoming a pacifist. He says, we're all violent. It's like being an alcoholic, he says he looks in the mirror in the morning and says, I'm violent, and I make a choice to live and act non violently.

zythyra (a human being who happens to be transgendered, Jewish, musician, etc....)

I think its more the stigma we attach to labels that affects us more than the label itself.  Zythyra hit the nail on the head with why we are here - because we are transgendered.  Here at Susan's, this is a very inclusive term.  Out in the real world, being transgendered can have a whole different stigma attached to it.

CHaunte

To put it simply, the GLBT community has a number of stigmas society attached to it, depending where you are on the spectrum.  If you identify as transsexual and step out into society and attach that label to you, that stigma will be attached to you also.  You may not accept it.  You might revel in it.  The fact is society has attached it to you because you labeled yourself transsexual.

My quest is not to be accepted as a transsexual.  I want to be accepted for who I am.  Steph, if you don't want to be called a creature of God that's your prerogative and I accept and honor it.  I guess there's no generalization I could have made there to get a point across that all would take with a grain of salt.  No offense, or labeling, intended.  All I was trying to say is I don't want to be anything but a normal person in this society.  But if I call myself a transsexual that won't be possible.

My position isn't fear mongering.  It's my reality.  I have three kids I raised from birth to adulthood who won't talk to me because I told them I'm transsexual.  They have adopted the stigma society has taught them and really don't want anything to do with me.  I'm hurt beyond description.  I gave the first half of my life to my family and when I wanted to have a little of my life for myself they all ran away as fast as they could.  I supported them all and when I needed support, most were ghosts.  The negative stigma society drilled into their brains justified their actions.  I was a good father, a good husband, a good brother, a good son and a good friend.  But all that was erased when I announced I was transsexual.  And I knew full well what my family and friends thought of transsexuals but I thought who I was inside would be more important than what I look like outside.  With only a few exceptions, I was wrong.

I want a life where I can live in peace, where I can be me and be accepted.  Maybe I'm the rare person who grew up in a transphobic world.  I don't know.  But I do know once I labeled myself transsexual, my past relationships all but disappeared.

Maybe that's what fuels the activist fires in me.  I don't want anyone else to go through what I have had to endure.  I guess that's what happens when you've lost something you so dearly love.

Julie

Quote from: Julie Marie on December 30, 2006, 03:32:52 PM
The negative stigma society drilled into their brains justified their actions.  I was a good father, a good husband, a good brother, a good son and a good friend.  But all that was erased when I announced I was transsexual.

Although the emotional impact in NO way compares to your situtation, still:

Quote from: Kate on November 16, 2006, 09:13:08 AM
What's scaring me now is I was *counting* on my reputation and value as an employee to carry me through this. After sixteen years, I've acquired the reputation of being both honourable and open-minded... *everyone* comes to me about their personal problems. It's become an office joke that no matter what happens, I'm *always* nice to people, that I "never get mad at anyone." I have keys to the entire buildiing. I have the corporate AMEX card, and I *don't* have to even report what I buy.

But I say I'm TS, and suddenly that's all GONE. None of that matters. Now I'm an unstable, man-teasing, drug-addicted, sex-obsessed adulterer.

Three the four men I've come out to have reacted this way. You say you're TS, and suddenly you're just label with a collection of very mistaken, very irrational assumptions rather than an individual. They suddenly don't see ME anymore, they just see their silly prejudices. It's amazing how "knowledgeable" these people are regarding the causes and issues of transsexualism, even though they've never read read a single book or paper on the subject.

It was a rude awakening for me, and put a screeching halt to my shouting this from the rooftops joyous epiphany. I've since cooled my heels, and I'm trying to watch and learn from all of you the best way to bring this out to people. I don't particularly like the idea of super-formal letters explaining that I'm a transsexual, as most of the speech then becomes a defusing of the myriad of bigotries associated with the term... explaining more what I'm NOT rather than who I AM.

For now, I'm leaning towards avoiding the whole "I'm a transsexual, this is what that means, this is what I'm going to do..." approach and just let things evolve for now, without labelling myself, letting my actions, demeanor and appearance speak for themselves (admittedly easy to say since I'm still perceived as male).

Kate

                   My opinion is it is up to the person coming out to educate and define what they are.  If you fail at this and simply use a label then you are subject to being misunderstood.  I have even found those with preconceived notions to be open to accepting an honest explanation.  Be positive you understand exactly what you are before coming out. If you are unsure they will never understand. If you are MtF transsexual you need to explain to people you are a woman, no doubts, no conditions, no maybe, just that you are a woman and always have been, period.  You are not becoming a woman or changing into a woman. Transsexuality is really a very simple concept. 



beth

I don't think labels hurt us.  Humans label everything - it's how we understand our universe.  The crime is when politicians and other power seekers use negative judgements against those who fit certain labels.  It's the scapegoating that is evil, not the labels.

Our culture reflects and feeds interactively between society and its laws.  Social beliefs influence political thinking and vice versa.  The problem lies with those who see a small, weak, minority whose differences are difficult to understand by most people and use them as blame objects to achieve their agenda.  That these differences make people feel a little uncomfortable only adds to the benefit.  They mask their attacks in the robes of morality and religion as camoflage designed to keep the less thoughtful of their followers from really seeing what they're up to.

That's what the Nazis did.  They picked the groups whose differences were obvious but not well understood, dehumanized them to make it easier for mostly decent people accept the prejudices and then blamed the groups for the problems that the German population was experiencing.  It was the blame that caused the damage.

And we see that in the US.  GLBT people are dehumanized, called abnormal creatures that need pity and treatment.  Our lifestyles are used as examples of depravity and are blamed for the "decay" of our culture.  Our work for political equality is misrepresented as forcing people to adapt our ways, not as attempts to become first class citizens.

It has been my experience that many Americans believe that political animals such as the Nazis could not flourish here.  They think, "No, it can't happen HERE!"  This is one of the most dangerous mistakes that our society makes.

It can and IS happening here.

helen

Perhaps the labels are not really the problem.  Maybe it is our use of them as a society. Having raised three children and babysat many more, I have witnessed the use of labels by children that to an adult are at best amusing and at worst create concerns. Yet it is not the label but the understanding or lack there off in using them. Often the label reflects personal characteristics that we would perhaps never admit too.

I see many titles used. Pacifist, transgendered, transsexual, normal,male, female and on it goes. Each label indicates our level of understanding regarding the subject the label is attached too. Some people refer to aspirin while others use ASA and others go with the whole mouthful. 
It took me a lot of years to come to the point of understanding I am at. Others need time and as I did, information to arrive at a fair understanding of issues and then be able to apply an applicable label.
Normal sounds like a responsible label except that it means that everything outside of your scope of reference is abnormal. In my book, normal is just another way of saying average or largest majority.
Apply that reference to political parties and the only people in politics who are normal are the ones belonging to the largest majority.
There is a distinct difference between being called transgendered or transsexual. I like transwoman and make no apology for who or what I am. While I have always hated the Class separation applied to Post or Pre-op transsexuals the labels in themselves only define a point in transition attained by the person. It is our selves that apply levels of social value to them. As a pre-op and now a post op I refuse to join a group that holds one of more value than another.
I was told by one person that I should not be so in your face. When I asked them to explain they were unable to define in your face. People ask me questions and I give answers, end of story.
As with most of you, going public lost me social value and over 99% of contacts. When my son who is now 34 chose to leave the province and stay out of touch it was something that affected my whole family. Yet he isolated the whole family from him by his choice and the door to any family member is wide open anytime he wishes to call.
I would like to just apply for a job and earn a living without issues Sadly that will likely never happen and so I spend my time telling people the right information.
Education of that child is the lesson to learn. Knowledge is power that used wisely creates harmony.

I never was the man you thought you knew, I will never be the woman I know I am, yet I will always be me.

Please continue to discuss, share, teach and learn in 2007

Regards

Denise

Maritime Transgendered Workplace Solutions Project
Web: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/winpapernews

"Knowledge is power that used wisely creates harmony"
                           Denise   2001

Quote from: Julie Marie on December 30, 2006, 03:32:52 PM


My position isn't fear mongering.  It's my reality.  I have three kids I raised from birth to adulthood who won't talk to me because I told them I'm transsexual.  They have adopted the stigma society has taught them and really don't want anything to do with me.  I'm hurt beyond description.  I gave the first half of my life to my family and when I wanted to have a little of my life for myself they all ran away as fast as they could.  I supported them all and when I needed support, most were ghosts.  The negative stigma society drilled into their brains justified their actions.  I was a good father, a good husband, a good brother, a good son and a good friend.  But all that was erased when I announced I was transsexual.  And I knew full well what my family and friends thought of transsexuals but I thought who I was inside would be more important than what I look like outside.  With only a few exceptions, I was wrong.

Julie

I understand this completely.  This not only goes for the TS but their SO as well who supports them.  I always felt that we did such a job at protecting them from "us" that that is where it all went wrong.  Rather we probably should have been up front with them from the beginning.  Kids always know more than what we give them credit for, most times.  If the "subject' was discussed openly then perhaps we all wouldn't find ourselves in this heart breaking dilemma.  (just my thoughts - may not be everyones).

Gill

Quote from: HelenW on December 30, 2006, 05:41:49 PM
I don't think labels hurt us.  Humans label everything - it's how we understand our universe.

It's how we *create* our closed, self-contained universes. It's like living inside a mirrored ping-pong ball; all we "understand" are the reflections of our fears, hopes, and dreams.

Kate

Quote from: Kate on December 30, 2006, 07:05:06 PM
It's how we *create* our closed, self-contained universes. It's like living inside a mirrored ping-pong ball; all we "understand" are the reflections of our fears, hopes, and dreams.

I believe that our closed universes are formed by the limitations of our knowledge of the labels and what they really mean.

I still think that the labels humans create are not inherently wrong.  It's what we do with them, just like any other tool be it a hammer of an M-16.

hugs & smiles
helen

I think that there are two separate thoughts here.  There are the labels used to identify something and then there are the labels of hatred.  They are often the same... they are just used differently.  I believe that Julie was attempting to discuss how society uses exclusive labels to "cull the herd".

Of course names and labels are terribly useful.  When we use differences (sometimes used with those same labels) to exclude people, then we have a very destructive situation.

Chin up!

Cindi

Quote from: Brianna on December 16, 2006, 11:59:11 PM
I like labels, as long as they convey meaningful definitions and lack ad hominim attacks.

Quote from: Brianna on December 30, 2006, 10:39:04 AM

Transsexualism is pretty predictable. As is transvestism. And those of us with it are highly classifiable. Passes, doesn't pass, straight, gay, op, non-op - this is not complicated.

I totally agree with the above posts from Brianna, but also as Beth said:

Quote from: BethMy opinion is it is up to the person coming out to educate and define what they are.  If you fail at this and simply use a label then you are subject to being misunderstood.  I have even found those with preconceived notions to be open to accepting an honest explanation.  Be positive you understand exactly what you are before coming out. If you are unsure they will never understand. If you are MtF transsexual you need to explain to people you are a woman, no doubts, no conditions, no maybe, just that you are a woman and always have been, period.  You are not becoming a woman or changing into a woman. Transsexuality is really a very simple concept.

In order to educate people, we are supposed to understand exactly what we are first; otherwise, what we are doing is not teaching but creating more controversy and confusion for others to control us.

tinkerbell

Quote from: Tinkerbell on December 30, 2006, 10:29:25 PM

Quote from: Brianna on December 30, 2006, 10:39:04 AM
Transsexualism is pretty predictable. As is transvestism. And those of us with it are highly classifiable. Passes, doesn't pass, straight, gay, op, non-op - this is not complicated.

I totally agree with the above posts from Brianna...

Oh I dunno... I sometimes think labels are only "predictable" and "uncomplicated" for those who (seek to) benefit from being labelled, from casting themselves into the prettiest of the boxes.

Many transsexuals started out erotically crossdressing without a GID thought whatsoever. Many ->-bleeped-<-s end up transitioning. Many pass one day, and get clocked the next. I myself used to think I liked women... and now find myself disturbingly attracted to men exclusively. Does society base orientation on sex or gender? Some TSs only have an orchi... a sorta op. Some live as women yet continue to self-identify as men. And on and on...

The terms and labels are useful when describing a particular behaviour at a given moment of time, but to try and define an entire person and their fate with just a word just seems wrong somehow to me. You see it everywhere around the forum: people trying to shoehorn themselves into a label so they can let the category can define what they want, what they should do, rather than just feeling out their own heart, their very own individual wishes and needs.

Kate