It might be more respectful to Maria if the thread title was changed. At the moment it says 'him' where really it ought to say 'her.'

Maria needs to be allowed to be true to herself, how many ladies here have regretful memories of their own wedding days? The wedding day they were forced to take part in looking, sounding and being regarded as a man. Maria needs to embrace her inner woman. She has a long road ahead of her and she really doesn't need a wedding, conducted under false circumstances, to be nagging away at her. It will then be another piece of male history she will be forced to lie about in years to come.

I am begging you Angela, please don't put her through that!

John, we have discussed this in length with Maria. She has no problem with the wedding while in male mode. For us its all about the love and the bond we share together. Maybe, some years down the line we will renew our vows. For now we are both looking forward to our special day on April 2nd.  

To be legaly married to Sevan I would be happy to wear a man suit and play the part yet again.

Yes I would prefer to have been the one in a gown and flowers. So when we get remarried I will.

I wouldn't be surprised if Maria would do that too just to be married legaly to her sweety also.

Your know, when I married my wife, we talked about how we would present ourselves.

Both of us really would have liked the opportunity to say to the world, this is who we are. We didn't really discusss any detains as such, but the idea. It was our day, after all.

But as we thought more, we realised that the notion of Our Day, is perhaps a bit misleading. It is the day when our families and friends come and see these two people becomng a unit, a team.

My wife's parents, in particular, were coming to see their child being partnered as they had been. And believe me, they were very conventional.

It wasn't just about us really. It was about everyone there.

As boring as it sounds, we opted for as much tradition as we could afford. So that those there, who had come to see us becoming a team, a unit, could understand and feel comfortable. So that they, all of them, could remember the day when they witnessed that.

Since that day, we've both done almost everything that we dared to to defy convention. 

I remember when my girlfriend came out to me, just a month after I came out to her. It's been the strangest road we've gone down, transitioning and discovering ourselves together, but it's brought us closer than I think we would have ever been otherwise. I truly feel for you. Good luck with your life together, and congratulations on your marriage!

Quote from: Morgan on January 15, 2011, 07:32:00 PM
I remember when my girlfriend came out to me, just a month after I came out to her. It's been the strangest road we've gone down, transitioning and discovering ourselves together, but it's brought us closer than I think we would have ever been otherwise. I truly feel for you. Good luck with your life together, and congratulations on your marriage!

This is the wonderous gift we get when we transition with a partner.

Quote from: Angela + Maria Forever on January 14, 2011, 06:40:24 AM
Spacial, if I had my way I wish she wouldnt transition at all.

Just based on this statement i think you should really reconsider your choices. I don't know you of course, but what difference is it if you have a wedding now or a year from now? You both love each other the same, and ultimately you will be together forever, there's no rush after such a huge revelation that you can't take time to really discover each other and see how you both will deal through these tough times. Marriage will always be there, take it slow and take some time to know your future wife...

Quote from: KillBelle on January 15, 2011, 09:03:45 PM
Just based on this statement i think you should really reconsider your choices. I don't know you of course, but what difference is it if you have a wedding now or a year from now? You both love each other the same, and ultimately you will be together forever, there's no rush after such a huge revelation that you can't take time to really discover each other and see how you both will deal through these tough times. Marriage will always be there, take it slow and take some time to know your future wife...

I didn't want Sevan to transition. I got over it soon enough after ze started cause I knew I wanted to be with hir regardless of hir gender.

The girls have a limited amount of time to get married considering that Maria isn't going to start her transition until after the marriage. (which I tottaly understand)

Quote from: cynthialee on January 15, 2011, 09:31:22 PM
I didn't want Sevan to transition. I got over it soon enough after ze started cause I knew I wanted to be with hir regardless of hir gender.

The girls have a limited amount of time to get married considering that Maria isn't going to start her transition until after the marriage. (which I tottaly understand)

I understand your point of view, but just based upon the divorce rate of this country as of current: 46%. People are taking things like marriage to be some sort of solution to their problems (or a way of coping), also, marriage isn't something to jump into lightly, have they considered ALL the routes and got all their priorities straightened out?

I'm not sure if you've read that other thread the OP made about wanting to go drown in the ocean with her fiance, obviously there are issues that needs to be addressed. I am not going root for a marriage because (no offense) both people do not seem to be very stable at this moment in their life.

You cannot compare your situation Cynthia because perhaps it revolved around different circumstances. But all in all i am happy that you are able to find your soulmate <3

Considering, KillBelle, that you very recently had a very acrimonious breakup, I wouldn't put great stock in your advice - as it's very likely to be heavily biased in one direction.

Quote from: KillBelle on January 15, 2011, 09:42:35 PM
I understand your point of view, but just based upon the divorce rate of this country as of current: 46%. People are taking things like marriage to be some sort of solution to their problems (or a way of coping), also, marriage isn't something to jump into lightly, have they considered ALL the routes and got all their priorities straightened out?

I'm not sure if you've read that other thread the OP made about wanting to go drown in the ocean with her fiance, obviously there are issues that needs to be addressed. I am not going root for a marriage because (no offense) both people do not seem to be very stable at this moment in their life.

You cannot compare your situation Cynthia because perhaps it revolved around different circumstances. But all in all i am happy that you are able to find your soulmate <3

To be honest it would be silly to assume that everyone that gets married has everything worked out before they do. The things that end marriages typically don't appear or disappear overnight. Relationships that last tend to be composed of two people who love each other and work together to overcome the inevitable obstacles. I think people are too obsessed with instant gratification and the moment things don't look peachy one or both throw in the towel.

We might not always accept things at face value, but we compromise, we love, and we work together. Those are  the key factor to a successful relationship in my opinion.

Quote from: Vexing on January 15, 2011, 09:58:15 PM
Considering, KillBelle, that you very recently had a very acrimonious breakup, I wouldn't put great stock in your advice - as it's very likely to be heavily biased in one direction.

It's not biased in any direction, not everyone is going to have the same opinion about marriage as you do. I was just stating the obvious, marriage can happen at any time...just take it slow especially after a revelation such as this.

Quote from: Jacquelyn on January 15, 2011, 10:02:12 PM
To be honest it would be silly to assume that everyone that gets married has everything worked out before they do. The things that end marriages typically don't appear or disappear overnight. Relationships that last tend to be composed of two people who love each other and work together to overcome the inevitable obstacles. I think people are too obsessed with instant gratification and the moment things don't look peachy one or both throw in the towel.

We might not always accept things at face value, but we compromise, we love, and we work together. Those are  the key factor to a successful relationship in my opinion.

I see the point that you are making, but we are talking about someone changing their gender four months before their wedding date. I'm not saying that you SHOULDNT have the marriage, im just saying that you should take time to overcome or come to terms with who you are.

Do you remember the stress and pain that it takes for one person to come to terms with their transition? How painful it was to wait the months to pass by before you can start HRT? Or looking into the mirror and wishing the day would come when you can live full-time? Imagine all that stress lumped into the stress of planning a wedding and hiding it from friends and family, and then to also deal with a suicidal spouse. Just saying, but of course i could be wrong =D

Quote from: KillBelle on January 15, 2011, 10:11:00 PM
I see the point that you are making, but we are talking about someone changing their gender four months before their wedding date. I'm not saying that you SHOULDNT have the marriage, im just saying that you should take time to overcome or come to terms with who you are.

Do you remember the stress and pain that it takes for one person to come to terms with their transition? How painful it was to wait the months to pass by before you can start HRT? Or looking into the mirror and wishing the day would come when you can live full-time? Imagine all that stress lumped into the stress of planning a wedding and hiding it from friends and family, and then to also deal with a suicidal spouse. Just saying, but of course i could be wrong =D

Well, I'm a GG so no,I don't know what that feels like. My SO is trans though and I don't plan to leave his side but to try and work through that with him. His GID is the least of my worries, but still, not giving up just because things aren't easy is the key.

A girl I know quite well once mentioned how our marriage seems to just truck along and said, 'Well, you deserve each other.'

I think if you go into marriage, thinking there is a way out, or if you go into marriage, hoping it will get better, or if you go into marriage thinking the person is anything other than the best there ever was or could be, then it probably won't work.

I really can't say why my wife has put up with me all these years. But for my part, every day, I am grateful that she has. She's a better person than I can ever be. I look up to her. I admire her. I try to emulate her as far as possible. She might not know it, but she's my leader.

But for all that, we're equals. We respect each other and accept that neither of us is perfect.

You know, I've been thinking of starting a thread asking what is your favourite pet hate about your partner.

Quote from: KillBelle on January 15, 2011, 09:42:35 PM
I understand your point of view, but just based upon the divorce rate of this country as of current: 46%.

(assuming USA)

The total divorce rate is somewhere around there.  But for first marriages, it's substantially less than 46%.  A first marriage is way more likely to work out than a second or whatever marriage.  The other key factor in marriage, other than how many times a partner has failed in the past at marriage, is the age of the couple when they marry.  People over 25 have a substantially lower rate of divorce.  For instance, women who marry at between age 25 and 30 have a divorce rate of around 16% (only 16% of them will divorce their spouse).  Women age 20-25 have a 36% divorce rate - still much lower than the average of 46%, because the 46% is partially composed of a group of people that divorce and marry other divorcees and then divorce again - these people can have an 80% chance of divorce or more.

So love is not quite as dire as many think for most first-marriage young people.     Your chances are reasonably good, particularly for first marriages of people after age 25 or 30.  That said, marriage *is* hard work sometimes and I wouldn't fault anyone who couldn't make it work out with a specific person - that happens to plenty of people who work very hard to build a relationship.  And it's plenty possible for divorcees to find a good spouse and spend the rest of their life together - we aren't constrained by the odds.

(I take my numbers from the USA CDC)

That said, I *do* agree with you that anyone entering marriage do so with open eyes - and makes sure that they can handle things that can be reasonably expected to happen.

Not to mention the fact that a potential divorce is not a reason to put off marriage. Marriage doesn't need to be forever. It's like throwing a really big party where you get to wear an awesome dress - in fact it IS a big party where you get to wear an awesome dress.
I think people put too much emphasis on marriage and treat it far too seriously.
I also think that much of that attitude comes from the religious connotations that go with it - which to someone like me are utterly meaningless.
If some suggested that I put off my big party because my partner was having some issues, I'd tell them to bugger off - as a party would probably cheer my man up 

Considering the history of Western divorce law, gender inequality, and sociocultural and religious shifts--not to mention longer lifespans--I'm not surprised about the current divorce rate in the U.S. I really don't have a problem with it. I don't see why it's such a tragedy for two people to grow apart over time, and decide to call it quits. It's only a sacred lifelong commitment if people insist that it is--and when such people divorce (and many of them do), they often feel like failures or sinners or whatever. That makes sense.

Personally, I think the hue and cry over the U.S. divorce rate is a crock, much ado about nothing. Or much ado about very little.

I honestly can't see a problem here. As Jacquelyn has said, it depends upon how ready you are to overcome problems.

But I still believe that, if you think there is an alternative, then there will be. For my wife and I, there isn't one.

Angela is pretty smart. I think she and Maria will have a sensible approach

Quote from: spacial on January 16, 2011, 05:44:18 AM
A girl I know quite well once mentioned how our marriage seems to just truck along and said, 'Well, you deserve each other.'

I think if you go into marriage, thinking there is a way out, or if you go into marriage, hoping it will get better, or if you go into marriage thinking the person is anything other than the best there ever was or could be, then it probably won't work.

I really can't say why my wife has put up with me all these years. But for my part, every day, I am grateful that she has. She's a better person than I can ever be. I look up to her. I admire her. I try to emulate her as far as possible. She might not know it, but she's my leader.

But for all that, we're equals. We respect each other and accept that neither of us is perfect.

You know, I've been thinking of starting a thread asking what is your favourite pet hate about your partner.

Quote from: spacial on January 16, 2011, 05:59:32 PM

But I still believe that, if you think there is an alternative, then there will be. For my wife and I, there isn't one.

That pretty much is how I feel about it. I think that the best partners compliment each other's personalities, work together, and most importantly, respect each other for the unique people that they are. It is sweet that you are still able to share those feeling with your wife, Spacial.

I believe that marriage is a commitment unlike any other. In agreeing to spend the rest of your life with someone you must (or, should) believe in yourself, and in them. As was stated above, marriage doesn't change someone, but we are all human and subject to change without warning. Your growth as a person doesn't stop just because you have a ring on your finger, and you aren't agreeing to marry someone with the expectation that they will remain stagnant for the rest of their life (or at least you shouldn't... if that is the case it's probably best you don't marry).

Yes, I do eventually want to get married. For me, marriage is a way of expressing your love and dedication to the person that you are with (and as Cait said you also get a pretty party with your friends and loved ones, and you can't beat that ). However, it's also a official promise to promote each others well being and shared life (in my opinion at least).

Also, I think a pet hate thread is a great idea. :p

~Jacquelyn