Quote from: Shayne on March 30, 2011, 07:17:58 PM
" Women are the BIGGEST threat and affront to the trans concept/trans ideology. Women remind Mtfs of the women they will NEVER be and women remind ftMs of the females they will ALWAYS be. " - name begins with a D.

Yea.....just wow....wow..

I agree she is not a feminist, she's a transphobic bigot.

Yeah, and why isn't it that MEN remind trans men of the men they'll never be and remind trans women of the man they'll always be? (i don't think that at all; just making a point)

just lots of stupid

they hate themselves more than they could ever hate us.  this is there way of taking it out on the world.  i try not to take it personal.   

Quote from: Chris73 on April 04, 2011, 10:22:50 AM
Yeah, and why isn't it that MEN remind trans men of the men they'll never be and remind trans women of the man they'll always be? (i don't think that at all; just making a point)

just lots of stupid

they hate themselves more than they could ever hate us.  this is there way of taking it out on the world.  i try not to take it personal.   

that's just women for you. they are all into the drama and formalities. maybe not all of them, but alot of them seem to have that kind of side to them. anyway, i don't think it's just women that are the problem, i think it's pretty much everyone in some shape or form.

because some of them are radical and insane.

I want to go hat shopping now

Quote from: Princess Rachel on April 06, 2011, 11:09:42 AM
I want to go hat shopping now

*facepalm*

Because the only thing better than a great hat is a great purse and/or outfit to go with it 

They don't. Feminist is a very broad term with as many branches and ideas. (political trigger warning)

Second Wave Radical Feminists or lesbian-feminists do for a few reasons off the top of my head:

1. Gender is a social construct by a patriarchal society. Gender is not innate.  So for people to want to "change gender" it means they often have very specific and strict rules about what gender and are therefor very sexist persons.  You can see this a lot with transsexual people.  Their view on transsexuals is often of late transitioning transsexuals who live successful lives as men but then decide to become characatures of feminine women.

2. The patriarchal society we live in means that men grow up with "male privilege."  This allows men to be assertive and bold while women are a second class citizens.  Men do not listen to the lower classes. When assertive privileged men destroy the lives of their families to transition and "assert" themselves as women into women's spaces with no real understanding of what life as a woman was like. It rubs them the wrong way.  Another example of men being misogynistic men.

3. They are often anti-submissive penis in vagina sex and do not believe that a reconstructed penis is a vagina, to them transsexuals are creating a "f**ckhole."  They believe men see women as "f-holes" and grs is merely creating one for yourself.  They are big on autogynephelia and liken transsexuality as body dysmorphic disorders like wanting a healthy leg cut off so you can be handicapped.  They think it's a mental disorder rather than something people are born with given the obsession with societal gender roles. 

4. They aren't big on body dysmorphic disorders caused by a patriarchal society.  Females are the primary victims of social norms that help subvert the confidence of young women.  They are big on confidence, on being yourself...no matter how you are born.  Most disappointments with oneself are caused by societal reactions (patriarchy) and they believe these should be wiped off the planet.

5. They do not believe it should be acceptable for one social class to decide that they want to be another social class.  It's blackface to them.  They imagine it exactly like a bunch of white men going under plastic surgery and chemicals to take on the physical appearance and mannerisms as black men.   This would not be looked on kindly by most blacks and it's the same with feminists/women.

6. Most of the their beef is with M2F Transsexuals but they are anti-F2M too who give up their womanhood and turn their back on women at great risk to their health, because they can't find political/social confidence with themselves as masculine women, and want to partake in male privilege instead of eradicating the patriarchy.

All the many problems I can see with all that rest on no.1 there, the convenient assumption that there's nothing innate about gender.

I've just been reading an interesting article on gender differentiation (I'll they and find a link to it) that states, amongst other things, that there's research evidence that biologocal gender differentiation is still fluid for some time after birth, and can be influenced by early childhood environment even down to a chromosome level - i.e. it's not all determined in the first couple of months in the womb. I'm going to look for more info on this.

Don't even get me started on our own Germaine Greer.   

I won't wear the accusation that I can't be a woman because I have never suffered period pain, for one.

Apart from the fact that a lot of our cis-sisters are fortunate in this regard,  I would simply state that,"I think in my case 15 years chronic pain from a spinal injury is a pretty good substitute, that will last a lifetime and won't end at menopause."

Karen.

To me the flaw with the antitrans feminists agruments is this:
You demand that the patriarchy/men keep its laws and hands off your bodies....Why do you think you have the right to interfere with the choices I make for my body?
!

 Maybe because they are insecure in their own Self-identity, and need to attack anyone they perceive as being more secure.  And what could be more secure than carving out your own identity, rather than sticking with the one society has given you.  Especially when it sounds like you have been either unsuccessful at rejecting it, or are in denial that you are a puppet of society.
 
Perhaps they are suffering self-hatred due to what they see as their own limitations, and their inability to overcome them.  By becoming visibly women, transwomen remind them of themselves and all they reject.

That's my 20c worth, from a General Semantics viewpoint.   
Karen.

As a transwoman who lives with three self-identified feminists, all of whom devote a large amount of their time to feminist discourse, writing and research, I must take offense to this accusation.  Sure there are a couple feminists who publish some transphobic literature, but I find these couple instances to be a misrepresentation of what the modern feminist movement is all about.  Feminism is NOT (contrary to common misconception) just about women.  It is about the equality of all people with regards to sex, race, class, ability, sexual orientation or gender identity.  Every single feminist I have met, even the straight ones, have been extremely supportive of trans people and have accepted me with open arms.  I have never attended a feminist speaker who did not at least mention transphobia as a problem with our current society and I have seen multiple blog posts on feminist blogs specifically dealing with transphobia.  Saying that feminists hate transwomen is nothing more than a blatant generalization based on the VERY FEW instances in which feminist have written/said transphobic things.  Feminists are generally second only to Queer people in their acceptance of transwomen, so to so they hate them is absolutely false.

Quote from: Princess Rachel on April 06, 2011, 11:09:42 AM
I want to go hat shopping now

Yes.  The best defense against the many problems faced by humanity is to wear a fashionable hat.

I've been constantly startled by who(which woman) accepts me and and who doesn't. It's hard to pick who'll be cool and who won't.

From what I have been reading it appears that feminist transphobia is most prevalent amongst some of those who were in the first wave of modern Feminism in the 1970's.  Writers such as Germaine Greer, who seem to resent having had to make way for a younger generation who have had the benefit of a more equal society.

Instead of changing with the environment they have kept the same world view, and therefore become a victim of their own philosophical limitations.  The world didn't quite turn out the way they wanted, so reality is wrong. In this case the medical evidence for differences in brain development, which is irrefutable.

Karen.

Quote from: justmeinoz on April 08, 2011, 09:05:31 AM
Don't even get me started on our own Germaine Greer.   

here here!!
But seriously, I think a lot of the things in life that ''transwomen'' strive for,  feminists want to break free from, like ''burning a bra'' only joking, it has been a very liberating experience for me being a housewife, some feminists would look down on me as ''little down womanhood'' they wouldnd be seen dead at a kitchen sink, just my 2cents.
p

They never hat'ed me..  

I actually had my picture put on their web site for 5 yrs ,, so i think its more a individual thang



oh thats me when i was 5 

People who disapprove of us simply don't know us and don't know who we are. If they would get to know us as individuals then they'd see that we are real women/men.

Quote from: Dàwkbua on October 18, 2011, 08:03:58 PM
People who disapprove of us simply don't know us and don't know who we are. If they would get to know us as individuals then they'd see that we are real women/men.

Oh, no. The radical feminists actually STUDY us. The more radical branch of feminism has devoted a stack of academic papers that could give the Tower of Babel a run for its money just to try to explain why transwomen are nothing more than spies hell-bent on sabotaging feminism's influence for the patriarchy. When we assert that we are really women, we're just "invoking male privilege" to try to "force" ourselves into womanhood, something we have a "false sense of entitlement" to. When they bash us, they're really "doing a favor" to the feminist community by preventing "men" from invading "womens' space".

I am so injured by their claims, so genuinely insulted, so grievously offended, that I have actually come to HATE this kind of feminist. That said, I can easily distinguish one of these radicals from other feminists (who I have no beef with whatsoever), so my wits are about me. But still. HATE. RAGE. All that stuff.

Don't hate the haters.. it makes you just like them..