Quote from: JoyceChin on April 20, 2011, 08:00:33 PMThe nerves of the female-gender oriented person is linked to the right side of the body, if you observed the palm of the person, if the person's right palm have more distinctive lines than the left, it does indicate the person is more female-gender oriented.

Palm reading????? Okay, okay, I'll bite. If indeed the palm lines indicate gender, then how can gender be anything but biological? You can't learn longer palm lines, unless I'm mistaken and there's a peer-reviewed study that offers solid evidence that you can. 

(Besides, under the mysticism I was brought up with I heard that the left side was the feminine.)

My palms both look the same, and if I decide one is more defined, then look at the other to make sure, I change my mind. This is why I like science.

I have a friend who's a doctor in New York and we write to each other pretty regularly. I talk to him a lot about my dysphoria and why I feel the way I do. This is something I wrote to him a few days ago and it seems to fit with this thread. So here goes ...

"I was lying in bed last night and an image came to my mind which seemed to provide quite a handy metaphor. Imagine a beach. When the tide is in, it looks like there is nothing but sand and water. But then, when the tide goes out, the wreck of an old ship is revealed, and suddenly becomes the single most arresting sight on the beach. That wreck is like my dysphoria. There will be long stretches when my psychological/emotional tide is high and the dysphoria is invisible. But then the tide goes out and suddenly the dysphoria dominates everything and is absolutely inescapable.

Now, the question arises: is that wreck real, or just some kind of a mirage? In the immortal words of Freddie Mercury: 'Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?' I've agonised over that for decades, wondering whether my dysphoria is essentially just a delusion - an escapist dream of a better life that could only turn out to be a disastrous disappointment - or whether it has some basis in my actual nature: whether it's in some sense essential. I guess that's impossible to know for sure without actually transitioning (more of a risk than I've dared to take thus far). But I can say a few things for sure ..

1. These feelings, whatever their status, have been present in me since my earliest adolescence and possibly longer.
2. They are not susceptible to any kind of psychiatric or pharmaceutical 'cure'. I know because I've tried.
3. I do not personally identify with the trope of 'a woman trapped in a man's body', but I can easily imagine myself as a woman FREED FROM a man's body. My perception of that feeling is one of relaxation, homecoming, rightness and congruity ... that it would have to be achieved by entirely artificial means is, of course, a powerful irony. But that's what I feel.
4. Insofar as I have ever experimented, my experiences match that perception. I am not a ->-bleeped-<-. I get no erotic thrill at all from wearing women's clothes, nor do I want to pretend to be female when I am not. On the very, very rare occasions I have dressed, what I actually feel is normal, entirely relaxed and - as far as my current body allows - comfortable. I love clothes and fashion, always have done, so I would take great pleasure in dressing nicely and I know exactly what my style would be. But this is not a fetishistic issue for me. When I was at my most gender-bending and flamboyant, in my late-teens/early-20s, regularly wearing make-up and even drag, that only served to highlight the gap that still loomed between what I was pretending to be and what I wanted to be. It actually made the dysphoria worse, not better."

Three decades on, the fundamental truth remains. I long to be female. It's a profound, unchanging instinct that is as much a part of me as the colour of my eyes. It has nothing to do with any rational calculation ... tho rational calculations have been what kept me male (fear of losing the family, the money, the work, the status etc) ... It just IS.

Oh, and with every week, month and year that goes by I feel myself being pulled ever-closer to the point where I finally accept myself fully and begin that long-delayed transition ...

Quote from: Sarah Louise on April 19, 2011, 04:59:51 PM
You already explained it, the same thing that tells you that your a male is what tells us we are female.

We were born with, what to us, is a birth defect.  Our brain does not agree with our body.

Seconded.

I already feel I am female. That's just the way I feel.

Personally I came to the conclusion today that I don't want to be a women, I have never "wanted" to be a women. Being a man would have made my life easier, and with a lot less mental anguish. The fact is I am not a man I am a women, no I don't want to be... It's hard, But I am what I am and thats all there is too it.

Really pleased for you missjanealice.

It's a difficult place to be. But once you get the rest of your thoughts in some sort of order, things will become so clear for you.

You still have enourmous decisions, but you should now have some certainty from which to start.

Carlita and Britney (not to purposely exclude the rest of you):

Absolutely perfectly done 

QuoteIf indeed the palm lines indicate gender, then how can gender be anything but biological?

The biological state effects the mental state in the same way as the mental state effects the biological state. It matter by circumstances that determine which side takes precedence, and there is possibility for latter shift due to other factors, such as after the maturation of sexuality consciousness, in which excessive attention seems to focus on entertaining the opposite gender's attributes [in their admiration / obsession], whereas at the same time, developing resentment / hostility toward maleness, this focus shift if becoming a habit over decades, may eventually cross the line, and diminishes previously perceived gender identity of biologically conditioned mental state [due to mind's shifted pattern of entertaining / opposing].

Quoteunder the mysticism I was brought up with I heard that the left side was the feminine

The left side seems to do with feminine action (according to tantra), whereas right side is feminine physical attributes (according to palmistry / taoism).

QuoteMy palms both look the same, and if I decide one is more defined, then look at the other to make sure

Try to focus on the long lines (the first) in perpendicular to the thumb, and also the second line that is almost in parallel to this line, that second line is "career" line, it is very significant if this line happened to be darker in color than in the left.

Hmm... so what if your hands are different sizes?

This is idle curiosity on my part, I should be honest, since I don't personally believe in palm-related indicators of anything important - but my right hand is significantly smaller than my left (I estimate around 8%).

Quote from: yoxi on April 22, 2011, 02:32:14 AM
Hmm... so what if your hands are different sizes?

This is idle curiosity on my part, I should be honest, since I don't personally believe in palm-related indicators of anything important - but my right hand is significantly smaller than my left (I estimate around 8%).

My left is smaller than my right.

Are you left handed?

I am "left handed" but I don't know whether that's just by default - I'm missing a number of muscles in my right upper quadrant, and my right arm is a little shorter etc., and was pretty weak when I was a kid (until I got into drumming!) so I've always favoured the left. I'm one of the "upside-down left-handed" who holds a pen point at 4 o'clock instead of 2 o'clock, if you know what I mean, and apparently we're not proper left-handers, in terms of brain difference between right- and left-handed people, if that stuff matters.

Around 15 years ago (a few years after I started meditating, perhaps coincidence) my right hand started making its presence more known. One memorable lunchtime on a retreat I sat down to a bowl of soup, and both hands reached for the spoon at the same time . Since then we've had a better relationship, the 3 of us - I used to hate my small hand when I was younger, probably because I was afraid of weakness. Nowadays half the time I find myself eating with my right hand.

Since my true gender sense has woken from its protective slumber, I've kind of fallen in love with my right hand, as it's more expressive/representative of who I feel I should have been. Weird stuff.

Thank you Emma! It's nice to know that someone out there understands what it feels like, when it seems so incomprehensible to me ...

And, yes, I too totally related to Britney!

Every time I see this thread title I think:

"Actually I just wanted to be comfortable in my own skin and feel that I was truly myself"

That's ultimately what the whole journey gave me. Peace of mind. So much so that I no longer consider myself trans but rather describe myself as post-corrected cis.

People I meet take me to be female and that is just fine by me but ultimately that doesn't matter. What does matter is that whatever I am, I feel comfortable being it, and I don't have to think about it, or put on some act, or worry about doing something, or not doing something. I am just free to be me.

QuoteI don't personally believe in palm-related indicators of anything important - but my right hand is significantly smaller than my left (I estimate around 8%).

You are left-handed, the frequent use of the left from younger age will impact its bone structure, causing more growth than the right.

There is a reason for palmistry to read only the right hand for women and left for men. If the line that indicates one's career is darker in one hand than the other, it indicates the person's career will be more immersive or successfu if living in the gender as indicated by the left or right hand, and thus help point out the person's suitable self-gender (the way I interpret mine).

Quote from: JoyceChin on April 22, 2011, 07:00:12 AM
You are left-handed, the frequent use of the left from younger age will impact its bone structure, causing more growth than the right.

I was born with one hand larger than the other, and their relative sizes have remained constant.

so many answers =P um.. okay. well i guess i am also just partly in denial that i'm transgendered, i also just don't want to see how my family will react, how my friends will react, who i might lose because of this, worried i might somehow regret it, and when i'm not passing having to deal with going out in public and being stared at (i hate it, it makes me feel like i'm not normal or something, but i'm sure others feel the same). thing is i think i'm still confused and trying to figure out who i am. after i tried cross dressing, i was unsure about my identity, and when i was little i hate dresses, and i wanted to do was play with toy cars and dinosaurs. never touched a Barbie in my life. but now i don't know who i am and it's driving me insane. i wish i knew. this doesn't have anything to do with it but i'm attracted to girls (and boys but more girls). also with my imagination i am always playing the male role. but then i think "what if i miss this life when i transition" but if i'm truly trans then i shouldn't have to miss it should i? like, i'm not making this up. don't get me wrong, i do have desires to be a boy. ugh.. it's all a mess right now

In terms of medical theory it would be my brain that tells me I'm female.  Now this sort of brain development usually accompanies a female body so everything jives.  But there are cases, and I'm one of them, where a female oriented brain develops inside a male body.  It is the brain that gives me my identity, one that I cannot change.  It's wired to accept input differently than does a male brain which makes having a male body incredibly incomfortable.

Think of it like a computer.  However unlike a computer, you can't just swap one OS for another that works with your particular machine.  Let's say for the sake of simplicity, there are two operating systems available.  Human FE, and Human ME.  There are also two machines built to handle these systems, each one taylored to suit the needs of the operating system.  I happened to be an ME machine loaded with FE software.  The problem with this setup is that you run into a whole host of driver issues and on the whole the setup just doesn't function as well as it ought to.  You'd think it would be easier to format and install the ME software since that's the machine I have.  But it doesn't work that way.  I already have the software and drivers to run a FE machine and they cannot be replaced (unlike a normal computer).  That means I need to gradually replace the hardware in order to have a properly functioning system. 

I hope that makes sense.

Heh, I hope one day I'll be using the Human XP hardware .

Quote from: Sarah7 on April 22, 2011, 02:38:27 PM
That was awesome! Can I steal your idea to send to a friend of mine?

Yes, I was born a girl with problematic body parts. I don't see myself as wanting to become a girl. I'm transitioning to stop myself from either killing myself or going completely insane. Honestly, I'm not even very girly. That doesn't make me not a girl though.

Of course you can!

Carlita - very well put I feel much the same way.  Though in taking it to the very essense that makes each of us who we are I believe that we come into life to experience it and all the ups and downs that come with it.  We are feminine souls before we come here and we wanted to experience life from both genders but we also knew before we got here that we would be able to normalize our bodies with our souls before going home