Quote from: Joelene9 on May 06, 2011, 04:34:17 AM
  I was on a jury in a first degree murder case.  The man charged never pulled the trigger, but he hired someone to do it.  The trigger man testified against his boss for a lesser charge.  The man we tried was found guilty and was sentenced to life in prison.  In the US as in most other countries, the one who hired the hitman is just as guilty as if he pulled the trigger himself.
  Joelene

Kia Ora Joelene,

I guess this guilty verdict would apply to a few American presidents, also some European holders of power too...

It all depends on which side of the fence one stands...

Metta Zenda

Last I herd he died in 2006 from kidney failure. But they quickly shut up about it because they where not ready yet. But I think the magic he can performed to make the laws of common physics Just not exist 9/11/2001 is simply amazing. Why we would want an anomoly like that dead is beind me. He also from a cave on the other side of the world made NORAD (the most high tech inpenigable defence stystem ever) Stand down for a morning. The most amazing thing he did was be wanted by the CIA and be on the payroll at the same time, and even visit with CIA agents after 9/11 and get treated in an american hos[ital by an american doctor.

A truly magical man. I wish I could do what he does. I would end war instead of start it.
Or maybe it was Americans all along? That would explain a ton of questions.

People in the Middle East certainly don't object to Americas foriegn policy of buying tanker after tanker of oil, the foriegn policy they object to is our support of Israel. So if you say American foriegn policy is the problem, what are you really saying?

Quote from: JungianZoe on May 02, 2011, 12:36:52 AM
Perfectly honest?  Sad.  Sure, he was a terrible person who did terrible things, but death is still death and killing is still killing.  The whole enterprise makes me sad.

I only celebrate the deaths of others when death releases them from physical torment and they go in peace.  All other death is mourned.  May not be a popular sentiment in this case, but it's still what I believe.  I'm sad that a human being died at the hands of another human being.

Do you mourn the 30,000 children that dies every day out of starvation! I know several families who lost father./mother; I see their children almost every month. I am biting my tong not to say what I really feel. Let me just say that some of my direct ancestors were gas and burn by Nazis. Am I sad that Usama, Saddam, Hitler, Stalin, etc are death? Hell no, I hope they will never see G-d.

Bin Laden isn't dead, and won't die for a long long time.

As the old old saying goes: "He isn't dead as long as he exists in memory and in our hearts and minds." That doesn't just go for loved ones who pass away. It goes for anyone who lives on through word and thought and deed... remembrance isn't discriminatory, fondness and hatred mean the same, and have the same effect.

The only way to kill Bin Laden is to forget about him. Totally. Let the mythos die with the man. Then that will be an end to him, for good.

Quote from: rejennyrated on May 02, 2011, 04:13:10 AM
I have to admit that my thoughts were:

1. Unfortunately extremism just got another martyr.
2. Even so this is probably what the US should have done years ago instead of stirring up useless wars which we cant win.
3. Sadly this probably wont change much.

This, more or less. I read on the TwilightSucks forum I'm on that Al Qaueda (spelling? who gives a ->-bleeped-<-) is actually a hell of a lot less organized than most of us think. I've also heard, from a lot of people, that Bin Laden was more of a figurehead than anything.

I don't think it's going to change things, except to boost our morale and make them probably hate us more, but I think it is nice to know he's dead. As long as he actually is, and this isn't some BS conspiracy. I've got no qualms with taking joy in someone's death, but I'll be first to admit that my morals are very skewed compared to most.

Al Qaeda confirms Osama bin Laden's death

http://www.france24.com/en/20110506-al-qaeda-confirms-osama-bin-laden-death-islamist-websites?ns_campaign=nl_quot_en&amp;ns_mchannel=email_marketing&amp;ns_source=NLQ

The freaks keep freaking.

Unfortunately I think 'they' will try for a 'spectacular' event. I just hope it fails.

Why are people nasty?

Cindy

Quote from: CindyJames on May 07, 2011, 02:34:48 AM
Why are people nasty?

Because it's easier, and takes less effort, to blame the world than to look inside and fix the real underlying issues. A majority of hate comes from insecurity, but most never admit to that, content to focus outward and vent their rage upon everything that gives rise to that insecurity.

Quote from: Sephirah on May 07, 2011, 02:44:40 AM
Because it's easier, and takes less effort, to blame the world than to look inside and fix the real underlying issues. A majority of hate comes from insecurity, but most never admit to that, content to focus outward and vent their rage upon everything that gives rise to that insecurity.

I know. I find it easier to love. But I think I'm strange.

I think it was Isaac Asimov in the Foundation series put in a sentence that has dictated my life. "Violence is the last resort of the incompetent" . It is so true.

Sadly it is not understood.

Cindy

Quote from: kate durcal on May 06, 2011, 06:37:29 PM
Do you mourn the 30,000 children that dies every day out of starvation! I know several families who lost father./mother; I see their children almost every month. I am biting my tong not to say what I really feel. Let me just say that some of my direct ancestors were gas and burn by Nazis. Am I sad that Usama, Saddam, Hitler, Stalin, etc are death? Hell no, I hope they will never see G-d.

I think you totally and utterly misunderstood my comment.  I never said I was sad that Osama was dead, I said that any type of killing saddened me.  Any type of killing committed by anybody.  I don't support the enterprise of killing.

Yes, starving children are sad too, but that's nothing to do with murder, which is all I was talking about.  And I'm sorry your ancestors were murdered, but to me that would still be no reason (in my opinion) to continue the cycle of death.  If someone killed one of my relatives, I would feel the same toward their killer.  Sorry if that's not popular (apparently I'm supposed to have some bloodlust) but that's just the way it is.  Please respect that.

I actually didn't react to the news. It's doesn't really change anything. What needs to change is the governemnt's foreign policy. We're less safe, in my opinion. Bin Laden was trained by the CIA. In my opinion, they knew where he was. They just wante d to pick the pick time. Bin Laden was taken out because he knew too much.

Gennee

The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral,
begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy.
Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it.
Through violence you may murder the liar,
but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth.
Through violence you may murder the hater,
but you do not murder hate.
In fact, violence merely increases hate.
So it goes.
Returning violence for violence multiplies violence,
adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness:
only light can do that.
Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.
-Martin Luther King, Jr.

I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure.
-Clarence Darrow

  You may quote peaceful tracts from the likes of Ghandi and MLK, but it will never stop those peoples and cultures that advocate violence.  World history is full of that.  Back in the Soviet era there were a lot of kidnappings of diplomats from many countries in Lebanon.  The Soviets acted just like the kidnappers of their diplomat.  They found out who was behind it, kidnapped and killed his brother and sent his gonads to his family via a courier.  They immediately got their diplomat back, unharmed.  The US and other countries had to wait awhile for their diplomats and education advisers to be returned dead or alive.   
  Remember, bin Laden has had more moslems killed than the foreigners because they were not Sunni or from the right sect of Sunni.   A lot of his henchmen used the locals for suicide bombings simply they are not from their tribe!   Both of my nephews witness this crap of bombing the mosques at prayer time!  One thing that kept bin Laden in power was his openess to the locals.  He even built roads and bridges for them.  There might be a disaffecton of the Taliban from the al Qaeda simply because the mad doctor Ayman al-Zawahiri, his second in command, is favoring his fellow Egyptians to the top slots.  There might be more bloodshed amongst the al Qaeda if Ayman al-Zawahiri is selected to head it. 
  But also, there are the many colors of al Qaeda that the main body cannot control.  These loose cannons may kill more of their own people and others who don't abide by their beliefs.  Stay tuned in these interesting times!
  Joelene

Quote from: Joelene9 on May 08, 2011, 01:06:55 AM
  You may quote peaceful tracts from the likes of Ghandi and MLK, but it will never stop those peoples and cultures that advocate violence.  World history is full of that.  Back in the Soviet era there were a lot of kidnappings of diplomats from many countries in Lebanon.  The Soviets acted just like the kidnappers of their diplomat.  They found out who was behind it, kidnapped and killed his brother and sent his gonads to his family via a courier.  They immediately got their diplomat back, unharmed.  The US and other countries had to wait awhile for their diplomats and education advisers to be returned dead or alive.   
  Remember, bin Laden has had more moslems killed than the foreigners because they were not Sunni or from the right sect of Sunni.   A lot of his henchmen used the locals for suicide bombings simply they are not from their tribe!   Both of my nephews witness this crap of bombing the mosques at prayer time!  One thing that kept bin Laden in power was his openess to the locals.  He even built roads and bridges for them.  There might be a disaffecton of the Taliban from the al Qaeda simply because the mad doctor Ayman al-Zawahiri, his second in command, is favoring his fellow Egyptians to the top slots.  There might be more bloodshed amongst the al Qaeda if Ayman al-Zawahiri is selected to head it. 
  But also, there are the many colors of al Qaeda that the main body cannot control.  These loose cannons may kill more of their own people and others who don't abide by their beliefs.  Stay tuned in these interesting times!
  Joelene

Kia Ora Joelene,
  The universal law of cause and effect "Violence begets violence!" "Hatred begets hatred!" and "Stupidity begets stupidity!" and the latter seems to be the biggest danger/threat to humanity...

Metta Zenda

My personal thoughts on the Death of Osama Bin Laden:

One madman down, too many more to go.

- It was the worst thing we could have done, both as a nation, and as a unified body of people.
Why? Well, think about it. If you're fighting for an extremist cause (i.e. Al-Qaeda) and someone just took out your leader, you're going to do one of two things. A) You'll commit suicide because you refuse to be captured by the infidels (from their point of view, of course), or B) you'll be spurred to fight for your fallen leader in his honor (think "Remember the Alamo!").

We just kicked a HUGE beehive, and I don't think we have enough epipens to go around, if you get what I mean.

- I also personally think everybody needs to look back at the Declaration of Independence. There's a famous line that pretty much says that the government is in place to insure the well-being of the people and provide for the common defense. That doesn't mean go defend everyone else, meanwhile there are people without homes living on the streets of the national capital. It's the capital for crying out loud!

Now, I know that statement just kinda sounded like I was saying no homeless people in the capital, but they're alright everywhere else. That wasn't my intent. I was just saying that when somebody thinks of a capital, especially ours, in theory, they think, "wow. This sure is a nice place. Sparkling waters, immaculate streets, everyone has a fair say in everything."

Now, in reality: "Wow. This place is terrible. Green, murky water, litter in the streets, people with no homes sitting on streetcorners hoping not to get murdered while they try to get barely enough money for breakfast. There's corrupt congressmen and congresswomen, and hate crimes go on everywhere. I think I can even hear bullets flying through the air way over yonder."

If we can't take care of our own people, why should we try to take care of everyone else's? Okay, yeah so they had a tsunami (Japan), of course we send them help. Okay, you had an enormous earthquake that leveled 3/4 of your country (Haiti). We'll send you help. Okay, you're having a civil war (think 'Nam)? We'll help the people that aren't directly involved but in exchange nobody comes through our picket line, and we establish a DMZ around our facility. When you guys are finished duking it out, you can have your what's left of your country back.

Instead, in that situation we say "we must fight communism! It's evil! (Staying with the Nam thing here)" Billions of dollars and millions dead later, alright we need to leave. We're screwed they're screwed. Why don't we just haul *** and pray they don't all get nuked.

American government officials seem to all have a like-minded thought that the whole world needs our help, the whole world wants our help, and the whole world is getting our help. I think we have military garrisons in nearly every country on the whole dang planet!

Alright. I think I'm done ranting.

These are my opinions.

I realise this is off topic. But from the previous poster I would just like to make an observation.

Caveats. I'm married to an American woman, I love her and her family. I think a number of American people on this site know my love, friendship and respect for them and for their country. I am totally thankful for the protection Australia gets from the USA. And I hope Americans are thankful for the effort we put in to help.

The last time I was in the USA I was in SF. I watched in Union Square while a homeless drunk/addict leaned against the front wheel of a Rolls Royce and lost control of his bladder and bowels. It was 10am. He was taken away by police, I hope for some help.

It just hit me of the reality of modern America.

I remember the picture of the girl in Vietnam running down the street with her back on fire from napalm. 

That picture, taken by a USA reporter, and who subsequently rescued the young girl, defined war for me.

The man in Union Square, for me, defined USA welfare systems.

Sorry off topic but I think relevant to the last post. "You" want to be the worlds police but have lost sight of the plot, and yes I suspect it is the BB aspect that causes it.  No money in welfare, heaps in developing weapons. But then you have to find somewhere to use them.

Sorry for the rant.


Cindy

I often feel like we need to get off the world stage and get back to taking better care of our own people... The American people need to get the politicians off the biz as usual carousel

Not missing Bin Bin much

Quote from: Virginia M on May 08, 2011, 03:54:46 AM
I often feel like we need to get off the world stage and get back to taking better care of our own people... The American people need to get the politicians off the biz as usual carousel
Not missing Bin Bin much

I so agree!

Yep, any country that lets it's own weak & vulnerable sleep on the street should be banned from badmouthing anywhere else (I'm including my own heartless country)