I understand the difference between the two (I think I do, at least  ), so I'm technically transsexual. I don't identify that way because (this is probably going to sound ridiculous) the way certain words sound really bother me; when I pronounce it, it sounds like 'transeckshual', and it just has too many hard consonants for me to like it.
Granted, I only use the term transgender when it is absolutely necessary for someone to know I'm not cis. Otherwise I just say I'm a guy. Identify however you want, let other people identify however they want, and don't worry too much about it. 

Quote from: Ryan on May 08, 2011, 06:21:52 AM
The way I see it is that transsexualism is a medical condition; a diagnosis and nothing more, whereas ->-bleeped-<- is an identity. Like others said, it's also an umbrella term that covers a selection of other binary-defying identities. One can be transsexual and identify as transgender or identify as transgender without being transsexual.

This completely.  I see my transsexual experience as a medical condition.  I identify as a man, not a trans man (although I will say it if it's specifically relevant to the setting).  It took me a while to get to where I'm at now.  I used to strongly identify with being transgender.  I no longer identify with the term because, for me, it means that I've changed my gender.  I've changed my sex (physical self); I've always been male gender, but I haven't always been male sex.

Quote from: Lexia on May 08, 2011, 07:57:08 AM
I find it hard to understand what you're saying sorry :/.   You said physical sex, and a problem with physical sex can make someone feel the need for srs, that is up to the individual.

I said sex assigned at birth and sex identity. I said that a person's sex identity not might match up with the sex assigned at birth, usually causing a discomfort in one's primary sex characteristics or secondary sex characteristics. Secondary sex characteristics being things that are not genitals, and primary being genitals. So, a person who is a transsexual might feel uncomfortable with their genitals but might not necessarily need surgery.

People who identify as transgender have a gender identity which is different than the gender assigned at birth. They might have discomfort with their sex (primary/secondary).

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Janet, sex and gender are not the same.  Which is exactly why I'm concerned about some Transgendered people thinking they need srs, the thought of someone having surgery because they think they need to have their sex match their gender.  Things change how we work sexually changes I'll say it again this is theoretical to me I've tried having sex as a man, I do not work that way.

If sex and gender aren't the same then how can one have their sex and gender match?

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To me srs is the primary thing, I have a female sex drive and I need the right equipment.

What is a female sex drive? Also, what of people who are non-op? People who don't want surgery because they don't like the options? People who don't feel that uncomfortable with their genitals?

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What about the CD ->-bleeped-<- who wears female clothing but identifies wholly as male?  He's still a he, like someone born with the wrong sexual characteristics needing to change them, they were never the sex they were born into.

I don't understand what you mean by what I bolded.

I prefer transsexual over transgender, because nothing is wrong with my gender.
My physical sex is wrong, therefore transsexual.

HOWEVER, transsexual is a confusing word for many. So transsexed (sort of similar to intersex) would be a better word in my opinon, but that's not used.

I see the points you all make. I guess I am transsexual then, because my physical sex is wrong for me. I would like to be on T and to lose the boobs, but I don't feel much need for the construction of a penis, at least not at this point. But initially I didn't like the term transsexual, because like someone already mentioned, people then ask you "does that mean you're a lesbian?". *headdesk* No, it's got nothing to do with sexuality. I am still only attracted to men. I just happen to see myself as a man and living in a male role in society. I have always been just one of the guys even though I may have not realized it earlier in life.

I was born male, but knew since at least age 4 that I was a girl. I have transitioned to female, and I identify as female. That makes me technically a transexual woman, and I am proud of being a transexual woman. But working in schools in the USA, calling yourself or being called a transexual could be dangerous, because so many haters try to connect us to sexual predators. (The same happens to gay people, which is why we avoid the term "homosexual"). It's not a matter of my discomfort with the term transexual; it's for my own safety. I am accepted as I am by students, parents, and colleagues in three schools, and in the broader school district. I am out to anyone who knew me before this year. Most of the parents with any ounce of sense know I am transexual, but they also know me as "Jill", someone they know and trust. When I use the term "transgender" they understand it is about identity and not about my sexual interests/practices. I see "transgender" as an umbrella term that includes transexuals, cross-dressers, drag kings/queens, and others. I am proud to be under the transgender umbrella, and proud to be under the LGBT umbrella, where I have many allies.

Surgery is not necessary for someone to be transexual. I have been on HRT for 3 years. I may or may not have GRS - it depends on funding and my health. That doesn't make me any less of a transexual.  What makes someone transexual is the knowledge that they are a different sex/gender than they were identified as at birth and they seek to correct that by living as their true gender/sex.

Somewhere I saw the word "transexed" used in place of transsexual. I like that better, for the reasons already pointed out...it has nothing to do with sexuality, but lots of people outside our community don't seem to know that.

As far as words go, and what I call myself when explaining it to people, I normally say "transgender" rather than "transsexual". This is because a lot of people have stereotypes associated with the word transsexual, but not so many with the word transgender. But if I'm being technical about it, then I'll say transsexual to be more specific (also, if I'm having a real discussion about it, then the person is probably open-minded enough to understand that stereotypes are not to be believed).

As far as minorities, I think that supporting a united front is good, but also presenting the fact that there are minorities under it is important. I mean, I'm FTM, under the transgender umbrella, and aromantic under the asexual umbrella. The umbrella terms are good enough to describe me in simple terms, but if I'm coming out, or sharing information about it, I'm sure to explain what the minorities are.

I really don't understand too much the subtle differences between these terms, I use them interchangably, I don't see the difference, always thought they meant the same thing. But I guess its because I've never delved deeply into their meanings that I don't see what the big deal is. Even though personally I prefer transgender in terms of how it sounds though only because transsexual makes it sound like there's an actual sexual act going on, but whatever, again, no big deal for me.

It's kind of a double-edged sword, as I see it.

For those who live in industrialized countries with socialized healthcare that covers transition for transsexuals, I feel that the TG/TS debate is more an academic argument than it is for those of us in the US or other countries beholden to a private healthcare system.  Our situation in the US is one of complete nonpayment for anything related to transition, thus imposing on the transsexual a financial burden which exceeds the means of many.  We need transsexualism to be recognized as a treatable physical condition not unlike cancer, diabetes, or even bad eyesight: physiologically based with a prescribed path of optimal treatment.  Only when this distinction is made can we move toward insurance parity for transsexual medical necessities.  This conversation is pretty much a non-starter if we remain contentedly under the TG umbrella along with people without need of medical intervention.

Now please note that this does not, in any way, mean advocating for special rights in exclusion of the rest of the TG community (i.e., marriage and public accommodations).  Equality for all is the most noble goal to which society can strive, and full TG rights are worth fighting for.  But the simple truth is that until private insurers recognize the legitimacy of transsexual medical needs, we'll be stuck paying out of our pockets forever while insurance companies reap mad profits.  This is why I identify strongly as transsexual and never refer to myself as transgender... I believe in the goal of parity for transsexual-specific healthcare.

Here's the double-edged sword I mentioned: society rarely makes sweeping changes all at once, and we're only just entering the age of transsexual awareness and acceptance (the latter a "just barely").  The LGB part of the spectrum has the stage now as they have for several decades, and I honestly think our turn is next.  But will society, who can barely grapple with the notion of lesbian and gay (forget trying to understand bi), be able to cope with TG nomenclature?  Or will a TS fight for medical equality (in the US anyway) overshadow all forms of rights for the rest of the TG spectrum, much in the way that we've been bargaining chips for the LGB community to get rights that specifically exclude us?  This unfortunate aspect of society may very well mean that either one segment of the TG spectrum wins, or we all lose.  My sincere hope is that that's not the case, and we need to be damn careful not to let that happen.

So I say... it's a slippery slope with no easy answers.

i like the word transgender way more because the word transsexual has the word sexual in it and i always think there's probably still far too many people that think transitioning has something or anything to do with sex and it doesn't.

even knowing that's the umbrella term for about a dozen other identities and the fact that i know i was born in the wrong body and need to transition with hormones and surgeries to survive psychologically and emotionally - that is the medical definition of a transsexual. that's it. but for that dumb reason i stated at the top, i don't like hearing or saying it. even typing it that much.

and now that i read Jungian Zoe's comment on this, i realize people like me do not help ourselves with insurance to one day see the impact it would be to pay for our hormones and surgeries once they know we're not weird or cross dressing but we have a medical condition as bad as diabetes, cancer, cataracts, MS, MD, mental illness, these all NEED treatment and help paying for it all. hhmm i guess i should either just leave it to saying I'm a guy or get used to using the term transsexual for the sake of educating people.

Kia Ora,

  Hey folks, how about adding  this to the mix...


How's that for a nutshell !!! But I could be wrong...

Metta Zenda

Quote from: Noah the brave-ish on May 10, 2011, 01:20:02 AM
i like the word transgender way more because the word transsexual has the word sexual in it and i always think there's probably still far too many people that think transitioning has something or anything to do with sex and it doesn't.

I would tend to agree with this view. I am medically and technically transsexual, but I have always found the term problematic, especially with the general public.

Part of this may be to do with the word "sexual" that is embedded in the word, as it makes people think of it as a type of sexual perversion or deviance. For me, I've had this issue since I was a toddler, so there is nothing sexual about it.

Another reason why the word "transsexual" may bring out the wrong ideas when used is because there is so much ridiculous publicity/porn going around that feature "transsexuals", like it is a whole new exotic genre. Unless you are a porn star or works in the industry, I am sure people rarely want to be seen in that context in their day to day lives.

Further, the word "transsexual" has often been used as a demeaning and derogatory term against trans people, and I can see why trans people would want to distance themselves from it.

I just wish there is another term that is both medically fitting and appropriate for daily use. At present it seem like "transgendered" is the best description for myself 

Personally, I tend to use the word transgender when coming out because I feel like it's easier to understand. I feel like there's a negative connotation to the word transsexual so I don't like using the term for myself.

I do not understand shying away from the proper medical term because some uneducated fool could take it wrong.
It is what it is. Just because the term makes you uncomfortable does not make the term invalid.
Am I making any sense here?

Quote from: cynthialee on May 10, 2011, 11:41:02 AM
I do not understand shying away from the proper medical term because some uneducated fool could take it wrong.
It is what it is. Just because the term makes you uncomfortable does not make the term invalid.
Am I making any sense here?

I don't think that transsexual is considered a proper medical term (if that's what you're referring to). I agree that it doesn't make the term invalid but I feel that words we more closely identify with are a bit more important. Some people argue that genderqueer is a word like transgender, and that it covers a lot of different identities and types of people. However, a lot of people identify strictly as gender queer because they might not like certain words like androgyne, bigender, pangender, etc.

I also feel that there's sort of a "flip side" to your argument that isn't exactly related to what's being discussed here. The proper medical term for my genitals is clitoris, vulva, vagina. I don't identify that part of my body as female, or in a female way and prefer to call my genitals a penis, and boy box/front hole. The terms clitoris, vulva, and vagina make me uncomfortable and don't apply to me as much since there have been a lot of changes going on. I would think a lot of people would agree.

Transsexual is the proper medical term for someone who is changing or has changed their physical sex.
Transgender is a term coined by Victoria Prince for those folks like her that chose to live as women but maintain male bodies.

Then we have the transgender umbrela which is a political unity.

i wish transgender was the official one. since i can say that without flinching if i must but I'd rather just go by male. I've seen a bunch of guys use it, even on tv shows about trans people use it as meaning born in the wrong body. i still don't like transsexual. it just...sounds weird. i shouldn't care about what people think but i kinda do when saying something about you that might accidentally sound sexual or pervy when your out in public by yourself and your not that big of a guy and who knows what they'll think about who and what you really are or what they'll do. actually when it comes to that situation i suppose it doesn't matter what you call yourself.

God forbid anyone trans have a sex drive. I am sure that a sex drive or any acknowledgement of sex whatsoever will scar you as a pervert forever.
God forbid anyone ever think a trans person has even thought about sex because sex is soooo dirty and disgusting.

BLAH

Sex is a natural and healthy part of the human existance.

A couple years ago, a few trans folk worked to replace the term 'transsexual' and 'gender identity disorder', to Henry Benjamin Syndrome.  For some reason it never caught on.  I actually like the Syndrome idea as it speaks to a medical condition vs. a disorder or anything with 'sexual' in the term.  I've even used the syndrome designation in explaning my situation to ones that I knew would not understand otherwise.