hi everyone !

this is not exactly a whinning thread, i do have questions, like :
"am i the only one?"
and then, "why?"

so i had surgery with Suporn in feb 2010, everything went well, except i got more swollen than most people but it wasn't such a big issue, i was just told i'd need one more month to deflate,

but my problem was, even months and months after this surgery, a year after, swelling is gone, but aestetically, what i have there doesn't look like anything i've ever seen, as everything seems oversized :

labia majora rubs against tighs when walking,
labia minora is even bigger than majora and could be stretched to about 8cm or 3"
and i have a bit of bent corpora cavernosa over the neoclitoris that is not only outwards and obvious, but also painful when trying to get erected

so as a result i have an aesthetical failure that is a source of pain in case of arousal, and a buldge that is visible thru my clothes, probably more visible that preop and tucked...



it is true that i was pretty well endowed as a male , and i do maintain 8" depth but is it possible that i am the only one with this corpora cavernosa issue?

when i look down, i just see a shortened version of my old penis, with a pair of huge steaks hanging from it, to speak honestly..



but the story is not over !

disapointed by my result, i seeked correction of course,
exchanged mails with sophie, sent her pictures, she told me that all my issues could be "easily" fixed,

so i bought a ticket to thailand, saw Dr Suporn who simply told me " no, i can't touch that, too dangerous for nerves"


how is it possible that Sophie ensures patients of impossible things? doesn't she communicate with the surgeon at all? i sent my pictures and comment to get HIS advices, not hers, unless she is surgeon herself !

Dr Suporn did tighten some skin, so i can say half of a secondary issue was fixed, as my labia majora is a bit less flabby, and my labia minora can only be stretched to 2", wich is still considered a major hypertrophia by labiaplasty surgeons ... and this correction was extremely painful, and i really think i lost some sensation, yayy ...


Sophie could have spared me a whole trip to thailand by not bull->-bleeped-<-ting me, i am quite mad at her for that, if she told me the truth (as "Dr Suporn can not touch your corpora cavernosa" ) i'd just have saved that money for a more urogenitally-specialized surgeon ...



so i'm not looking for people to pat my head and say "there, there", i just want you all to be aware of my testimonial,

and i am indeed curious about people's satisfaction, i have seen a few postop pictures from suporn, on suporn's yahoo group and various other sites, and NONE shows the corpora cavernosa bulge i have,

so does anyone have it?
do anyone feel it, even tho it's not visible?

i really wonder why my result looks different than any other 

I have a distended urethral bulb and lack most of the labia minor and clitorus.
Yes it is painful when I get aroused, so I really understand. It hurts when you walk or stand for a while right?

My corpora cavernosa, extends deep into my vaginal opening and makes dialation very painful at times. Tylenol is useless.

I wish I could offer a solution, as I am searching for one as well. I dont have many options, it took me 20 years to afford the surgeon I did have.

But. Am I better off then before? Yes. I dont look like the girl on page 43 of.. Well never mind 

I wish you luck, not all of the results are as nice or as successful as we'd hope. Just sucks to be us 

Quote from: juliemac on May 23, 2011, 04:20:13 AM
Yes it is painful when I get aroused, so I really understand. It hurts when you walk or stand for a while right?

it did at first but it seems ok now in those conditions, or only as a vague pain i don't really care much,

but it's painful to touch, and as it's kind of "outside" it can be a bit of an issue, but i learned to be careful over time

QuoteMy corpora cavernosa, extends deep into my vaginal opening and makes dialation very painful at times.

yup that too



for the somution,i might have it, under the name of Miroslav Djodjevic, a serbian suegeon more specialized in FTM surgery, but he also does various genital delicate surgery and is according to his website's pictures, totally able to discard the whold corpora cavernosa while keeping nerves and important stuff , (pictures on his website, don't click if you can't see BLOOD )

the problem is it's a 6000 euros surgery again, and i do not have such money .. nor did i have the SRS money for suporn until i received money as inheritage from my deceased grandmother ...


so i'm in such situation that i chosed "the best" surgeon for my SRS, to end up in a "worse than preop" situation, in wich i still need surgery, still can't wear swimsuits, still can't be seen nude, BUT gained some pain issues, dilations etc...

all the bad, none of the good ...

Firstly I am sorry to hear that you have this problem, but I feel I should point out the issue with the corpus cavernosa is not unique to suporn or indeed a recent development.

I lived with the same thing for near enough 25 years following my mid 80's SRS with another surgeon. Fixing it turns out to have been a relatively simple and almost painless process, which was done as part of my mid-life revision in 2010.

As for dilational pain - my advice is use even more lube! - I know that sounds trite - but it really did solve the issue for me - which is how I came to live with it for so long before getting it fixed. I am also pleased to say that once the nerve ending eventually settled down the sensitivity did reduce to manageable proportions.

Finally this is a perfect example of the hazards of looking at pics on the internet. This is why I don't really think that is always the best way to proceed when you are choosing a surgeon, because some surgeons will be more honest than others. Many of them post the one lucky perfect result they they got - whilst others choose a more representative example. So the only way to really know what will happen is to talk to the surgeon, and a few of his previous patients. That way you can build a picture.

The good news however is that from personal experience - this problem CAN be fixed.

I agree with Jenny, it's quite dangerous to look at the internet and compare.
There are so many variations in people, trans or cis, everybody is unique.
This is also for the operations, the same surgeon with the same techniques can have different results.
Nobody heal on the same way because of different bodies.


For the record, I don't have any expiriences with Thai surgeons, so I'm not a good help for that.
Is there any surgeon nearby for a second opinion?

I hope for you that the problems can be solved like Jenny said, simple and painless.

Wishing you all the best for a solution.

hugs
Annette

Quote from: rejennyrated on May 23, 2011, 05:04:07 AM

Finally this is a perfect example of the hazards of looking at pics on the internet. This is why I don't really think that is always the best way to proceed when you are choosing a surgeon, because some surgeons will be more honest than others. Many of them post the one lucky perfect result they they got - whilst others choose a more representative example.

that only applies for the pics that are on the surgeon's websites, not postop pics you can find anywhere else, and wich have been uploaded by patients themselves

if you look for pics, find all the pics you can, of course you can find some on the surgeon's yahoo groups (there are independent ones from suporn and chettawut and probably other) there are some other like Lynn Conway's website and such

At first blush I would have thought that labiaplasty would have been an option to resolve this situation. I also would have that
Dr. Suporn would be ab to resolve this as he is purported to be quite gifted.

As to the appearance of your vagina, and it not looking like vaginas you have seen on the Net, I often-times say that "vaginas are
like fingerprints or snowflakes" with no two looking alike.

Quote from: peggygee on May 23, 2011, 03:21:25 PM
At first blush I would have thought that labiaplasty would have been an option to resolve this situation. I also would have that
Dr. Suporn would be ab to resolve this as he is purported to be quite gifted.

and he did!

well actually, labiaplasty itself is a secondary to me ( biggest problem being the corpora cavernosa one, they are kind of linked, but different)
but i went to chonburi in febuary this year, i had the correction, i had the pain, but he still left so much skin... he really seem to be very reluctant in discarding anything, it's a good philosophy when you have few material, but i had way too much (nope, it's not bragging -_- ) and i still do today


it's quite a shame because his technique is really amazing to some aspects, and i don't think the problem is that he can't handle people like me, because i know some who had no issues with him... but maybe he wasn't happy with them? or why else would he correct so little on me... 

it's just too puzzling ...

Quote from: Nickie_66 on May 23, 2011, 03:11:00 AM
and i am indeed curious about people's satisfaction, i have seen a few postop pictures from suporn, on suporn's yahoo group and various other sites, and NONE shows the corpora cavernosa bulge i have,

so does anyone have it?
do anyone feel it, even tho it's not visible?

i really wonder why my result looks different than any other 

Your result is unique because each person and each SRS procedure is unique...it's that simple. No two people are alike; similar, but different. My procedure was performed by Dr. Brassard, and I've had chronic problems with recurring UTI's due to urethral stenosis. Complications following the procedure are probably relatively common, they DO occur, and we know this is possible before we undergo the surgery.

All we can do, is deal with these problems if they occur, if it means seeing a different surgeon for your problem, or a urologist for mine, we do what we must. Unpleasant as it may be, I'd prefer to deal with the complication rather than what I had to live with before the procedure.

hmm, i wouldn't call my issues "complications" as they are not related to any healing process or anything that appeared after surgery, i've had a few complications due to extreme swelling, no biggie , and gone today


no, to me, my actual issues feel more like if builders used some wrong measurements, or like an instrument out of tune: it doesn't get bad, it's just made this way...

I had my surgery with Dr Bowers and she had MORE revisions of other surgeons work that week than fresh ones like mine.  My vagina is extremely fat and i dont necessarily like it BUT EVERY EVERY EVERY EVERY EVERY EVERY EVERY MAN that i have been with has gone CRAZY over a phatty.  It shows through my pants sometimes if i dont wear a pad and men are breaking their necks to talk to me.  Now I DONT have any pain and mine DOESNT look like it was a problem at some point, it is just fatter than I would like but it seems to be a turn on to ALL.

SORRY FOR YOUR PAIN but maybe u should seek dr bowers.  I thought I was going to get it touched up but actually it looks normal for a tall woman my age and NO MAN has been suspicious of it.

i'm not interested in men, actually...

I can relate to the swelling part of things. I'm almost 3 months post-op now and there is still a bit of swelling or at least I thought. I recently saw Marci for a followup and she said it was probably mostly just leftover fat. Maybe that fat will move around at some point? I dont know. seems a bit odd and I do have a similar thing where when I walk (at least naked) I feel bowlegged some from having it rub against my legs. But hopefully within the year or so that will go down more, I don't know.

not yet 3 month isn't so long,

in my case the swelling got better from the 6th month

patience...

i got an answer from sophie!

it is pretty amazing.... sophie replies me personally, she speaks for herself, not for  the clinic, wich was ironically the very reason of my complaint, to begin with ...

here are some quotes :

Quote
I made it very clear to you that the comments I made were "in my opinion". [...] At no time in that brief period did you ask me to confirm that Dr Suporn's opinion agreed with mine,

this sums up my WHOLE complaint :
NO patient is obviously asking her "opinion" about surgerical procedures and faisability, risks or results
it goes without saying that whoever writes to a clinic about surgery for a correction, expects answers from someone qualified in surgery, and not "opinions" of a secretary in charge of bookings and agenda.

did i underwent surgery based on the OPINION of someone who is not doctor ?


now you know from herself that if you want real information about your oncoming correction, you have to specify that you want actual real informations...

QuoteYou were given 8 inches of depth with our largest dilator, excellent sensation, orgasmic capability, very good cosmetics, and received a substantial revision to improve even those for free

well, the truth is: i have moderate sensation with many numb spots, poor cosmetics, and the "warranty" revision did worsen my sensation, without improving cosmetics noticeably.

why does sophie tells me wrong information about my own body? i'm the one who knows best about those points.
and to think that she has seen pictures, it's like she really believes what she says....


the whole point of my complain is not about Dr Suporn, it's about how the worsening of my issues could have been avoided.
misunderstandings happen, but in business context, they usually benefit to the one who pays, don't they?

QuotePeople who complain on the internet always do so much more loudly than those who are happy, and you are no exception. You seem to display typical characteristics of one who complains - as you did on the internet when on 23 May 2011 you boldly (and rather disgustingly, to my mind) described your overall successful operation to the public at large as "Suporn's Failure" at  https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=98958.0  Please re-read the replies you got to that. Not many seemed to support you. I am sure Dr Suporn himself will be thrilled to see your opinion of the outcome of your operation and service to have been so blatantly entitled, and cast into the public domain.

QuoteI suggest that you publish your result picture on the internet – tell everyone what depth you have, describe somewhat more honestly than hitherto what aftercare you received, and then see how many sympathise with you, and how many agree that your operation is a "Suporn Failure". I rather imagine it will have the opposite effect to what you wanted, and a very large number of people will be very eager and envious to have an outcome as good as yours.

okay, so now it seems that my crotch must be shown all over the internet .... old pictures already were on the Suporn's yahoo group, but having not posted there for a while, my account got suspended and i have to re-subscribe, wich is quite an anoying process...

so people would envy my result? that is not very likely, considering that a close friend of mine, MTF too, who came with me twice in chonburi, who has seen other people's SRS result, (including satisfactory ones from suporn) is so scared to ever get such a result as mine that she currently GAVE UP going to suporn's , as she originally intended to.
and people would envy my result? a "very large number" of people??



so to anyone who really want to know: THE RAR FILE containing the pictures IS THERE you can ask me the password by MP or mail, or guess it (it's pretty easy )

and feel free to come back on this thread and give your opinion about it, Sophie is reading ...
(and once again, i don't blame suporn, i do wonder why it happened, but i guess it can happen, it's surgery so results can vary ... the thing i don't like is when my attempts at having it fixed are wasted, mocked, denied..)




and about the aftercare, well, the hospital nurses are just there to give you paracetamol, they aren't specialized enough to manage usine catethers well, and they often mess up when reinserting one, then , when you're back to the hotel, you're visited by the staff girls to check on you, but none of them is nurse or anything, they are only hostesses...
those problems for example, have been fixed by Chettawut, as he was also facing them in the past years, he now operates in his own clinic, not every single day, and has his own nurses, i guess suporn will also walk this way, but for the moment, he's overwhelmed .. from my experience there, i don't even think he stops for lunch at noon ...

QuoteI suggest you ask your new "specialist" to write again (rather - for the first time). I guarantee you will find the administrative failure is with him/her, and not with me. Just ask direct if he/she has written........I know already what his/her answer will be.

oh, that's not a very nice, or professional thing to say ...

the thing is, i AM directly talking with this surgeon, i mean directly, he writes to me himself, and i answer to him....
you can see here that Sophie calls other surgeons "liars" and she keeps on doing it:

QuoteIt seems he/she is very bold already to have assured you he can do what Dr Suporn could not do, but then wishes to ask Dr Suporn how to do it.

let's sum it up:
-Suporn can not correct my corpora cavernosa, i accept it because he is specialized in aestethic surgery only, (sophie was wrong to believe that he could do everything/anything, he never told me so himself, he has always been honest and professional . )
-Djodjevic tells me he can correct it, because he is specialized in urology, and has already dissected corpora cavernosa more than once, there is even a picture of the said dissection on his website.
-before operating me, Djodjevic would like to see a post operative report of what has been done to me, there is none,
but my genitals being now a "non standard model", he logically wished to ask my first surgeon a few details about how my organs are now arranged....

this, to sophie, means "asking Dr Suporn how to perform my correction" ........ what an honest person's comment that is ...

(one more question is: is it true that suporn doesn't know how to correct me, or is it just that he can't do it in the clinic, but would need the hospital block instead , and therefore, lose more money for my "lifetime warranty"... have i simply been judged too expensive?
or has miscomunication been an issue there again ? )

QuoteDr Suporn does not see everything that is written to him that is correct. Nor does Bill Gates personally read and reply to every letter sent to Microsoft.

Bill Gates hasn't set up my computer himself, like Dr Suporn did set up my crotch ...

Dr Suporn also doesn't have as many customers as Bill Gates does,
and Bill Gates doesn't charge over ten thousand bucks per installation of Windows....
but yeah, let's compare, they're totally similar -_-

QuoteI think that covers everything. Please do not reply - unless it is to apologise to Dr Suporn, me, and the rest of the Clinic and hospital staff, because I am not prepared to discuss this with you any further.

i never meant to discuss anything with her, tho ....

i have not accused Dr Suporn of anything, therefore i will not apologize to him, but i will thank him again for my srs, like i did in Thailand.
i think he's a very good surgeon, but he is working in conditions that have become worse and worse over the years.....
i have not accused any other staff member of anything either .
i have only complained about the slow degradation of overal quality of service around the clinic, and the absence of real communication about the issues i need to have corrected, wich only Sophie, is responsible of.
Dr Suporn and all the members of his staff in Chonburi deserve my deepest gratitude, respect and admiration .

but one thing about me: i'm not concerned by the syndrome of Stockholm, and i shall never worship any surgeon like some transfolks do, heck those folks even worship the butchers who give terrible assymetric penile inversions with tons of complications in my country ....

of course, she also says that my remarks are based on internet rumours, and that virtually nobody could compare for example, her service with Dr Kim's service,
well, to be honest, i'm not alone behind my computer, we are actually about 5 (their number, country, and of course identity will remain secret, i can just say that none of them is familiar with trans bulletin boards :p ) and among us, some can testify that things were indeed better before...
the reason why i talk for them is that my business with the clinic is over, as Dr Suporn considers himself unable to do anything more on me, the people who help me writing still plan on using their warranty eventually, so they don't want their identy to be known, of course... if i wasn't there to speak for them, their concerns would remain secret, what a pity that would be !
and how many other patients are remaining silent for the same reasons?

Sophie says that Kim left with a large number of complaints.... well maybe back then, the complaints did actually reach the clinic, do they still do now?

I have just viewed Nickie's results and agree that she has a legitimate reason to complain.  Her result is clearly a case of poorly performed surgery and not the result of anything she could have done herself or the result of poor healing.  No one should have to go through two surgeries, let alone three surgeries--this procedure should have been done properly the first time and her concerns should have been addressed in a more professional manner.  Dr Suporn and his staff should be accountable and not belittle Nickie's concerns by telling her that others would be envious of the results.  By doing so, they are saying that Nickie is stupid which she is not.  It is too bad that she could not launch a class action lawsuit against Suporn, his clinic, and his staff.  Her results can probably be corrected but, like I said, no one should have to go through three surgeries to achieve satisfactory results.

Wow, her reply to you really makes me second think Dr. Suporn as a surgeon. I'm not saying that he's not a quite gifted surgeon, quite the opposite. But, I question someone who would employ someone that would speak as brashly as Sophie.

Nickie, no surgeon's office manager or secretary should be giving a patient the impression that they have consulted with the surgeon, making another trip to Thailand only to be told by the surgeon that they can not help you should have never happened if Dr. Suporn would have been told and involved, i wonder if there was a language breakdown.

My surgery was with Dr. Mcginn 5 months ago, i had questions over these 5 months, her office manager never gives you an answer or leads you to believe that she has talked to the doctor, Dr. Mcginn will call you back, she also removes the packing, catheter, gives you the grand tour of your new anatomy and shows you how to dilate, other surgeons have someone else do this, there is nothing wrong with it but i liked the personal attention, it showed me i was just not another $ sign.

Paula

Quote from: paulault55 on October 09, 2011, 11:14:53 PM

My surgery was with Dr. Mcginn 5 months ago, i had questions over these 5 months, her office manager never gives you an answer or leads you to believe that she has talked to the doctor, Dr. Mcginn will call you back, she also removes the packing, catheter, gives you the grand tour of your new anatomy and shows you how to dilate, other surgeons have someone else do this, there is nothing wrong with it but i liked the personal attention, it showed me i was just not another $ sign.

Paula

My surgery was performed in Thailand, I might add with a different doctor,  and all email contact was direct with the doctor.  I had no contact with his office staff at all until I arrived in Thailand.  He also performed all procedures personally including removal of packing, catheter, dilation instruction and the grand tour.  All very personal attention including his daily visits for the entire time and sit down chats just chewing the fat about anything.  Excellent service and results.

Unfortunately things can happen, it is major surgery after all and surgeons are only human.  However, if the replies shown from Suporns' office staff are anything to go by he needs to really fix this or he will quickly suffer the consequences.  Nobody should be spoken to like indicated and in no case should his office staff be giving surgical advise.

All the best for the future Nickie, I pray things will improve in the near furture for you.

Quote from: AbracaDebra on October 11, 2011, 12:23:31 PMSome views are not as bad as others but one is particularly bad (I guess you know which one).

actually i don't easily guess wich one is particularly bad, they all represent a daily annoyance to me 

QuoteMay I ask, has the surgery (and Suporn) seen these pictures and/or commented?

well, last year, i have sent some pre-correction pics to sophie, i don't know if they reached suporn, i have no idea of what reaches suporn or not ...

as for those present pics, no, i haven't sent them to the clinic, as the clinic's mail person has asked me to not contact them anymore, and there is no direct mail address to contact the clinic directly, i did send a fax, but no pictures.

it looks like they are playing the ostrich anyway, when i was in thailand, about my painful erectile bulge, Suporn just told me that it might get better over time eventually ....he did look a bit confused, and it's been almost two years now and i don't want to keep those issues for years ....


so no, i have no comment from suporn's clinic.