When people talk of androgyny or being bigendered, I wonder where I fit in there. I don't like certain aspects of my body being perceived as feminine, it gives me the creeps. However, I don't particularly want surgery...I don't have access to hormones yet...and I feel as if I've put a large psychological investment in feeling ok about my features. Yet, honestly, it is only insofar as my natural features allow me to get read as male. What am I to make of a male with a completely natural and unaltered "female" body?  Is that androgyny, or merely a pre-op transguy state?

I feel more ok in this liminal space, a boy with ovaries, than with the idea of adopting full-on a male body. I almost wonder why I should spend vast amounts of money to do so, just to be accepted. Maybe if it was harder for me to pass, I'd feel differently. As it is, it often hurts more to be treated as a little boy. If I transitioned, it would be into being an adult male, not into a male. I'm already a guy.

Hi AVI,

Gender questions are tough.  There is no checklist or test.  You can't ask anyone else what gender you are.  The only person with the answer is you, and when one is questioning themselves, most of us don't even know what questions to ask.

Some people, regardless of their bodies and/or modifications they may wish to make, know themselves to be male.  Some female.  Other people feel they are neither, both, or some blending of the two (in varying ratios).  Some people tend to feel their gender changes, sometimes quickly, some over time, and is fluid and never settled in one place.

Based on your brief comments, it sounds like you identify as male.  There is no rule that says if you were born with a female body that you have to change it to identify as male.  Some opt for surgery, some for hormones, (or both), and some do nothing at all.  Some wish they could make changes, but their circumstances don't allow it.  None of the physical changes (or lack thereof) change the fact that they identify as male.

"Is that androgyny, or merely a pre-op transguy state?"  Only you can answer that, but it sounds to me like more of a non-op transguy...with boobs.

I would encourage you to explore.  Ask questions of everyone you feel comfortable talking to about this.  You may find that you are a male.  You may find that you are female with some masculine traits, or you may be a mixture of both.  You are the only one that knows for sure. 

Oh...and don't feel like whatever you decide is the final answer.  We all change in many ways. As we learn more about ourselves, sometimes things that were hidden are revealed that make a major difference in how we view ourselves.  I'm not sure that our gender actually changes, but as a late bloomer, I can attest that our awareness of our true nature becomes clearer.

Sometimes we are sure we have found the answer, but when we try to live as a ___(fill-in-the-blank)___ we realize that this option isn't quite right and we have to continue our searching.

You are always welcome here in the unicorn forest, regardless of what you determine your gender to be, so relax and enjoy the journey.  It's full of both joy and strife, but along the way there are some amazing people that can both help you obtain clarity and rock your world to the roots.  I highly recommend it.

.....Laurry 

Quoteand I feel as if I've put a large psychological investment in feeling ok about my features. ... What am I to make of a male with a completely natural and unaltered "female" body?

I know how you feel.  I don't feel any need to change my female body.  I'm comfortable with it and as you said, I feel as if I've put a large psychological investment in learning to like myself and doing something to change my features now feels like I've wasted a lot of time and energy.  In my case, I don't care about presenting male.  I know I look completely female and that's fine right now.  Eventually, if I manage to lose weight, I might consider a more androgynous presentation, but it's not something that I need.  I feel androgyne.  Like Laurry said, you're the only one who knows if you're androgyne or ftm.    Explore, explore, explore! 

I originally came out as FTM. But it ended up tearing me apart and I could never place my finger on why until I actually accepted that being an androgyne was okay. I was scared to identify as androgyne because I thought it meant I was admitting I was part female, and that for that reason I didn't deserve any form of transition at all. I liked identifying as male in the beginning because it allowed me to reject the label of "female" which had been placed on me for so long. I thought FTM was the balance, but in the end I had a breakdown and realized that androgyne is who I am. I'm a lot happier now. I think only you can know what feels right.

I'm not sure what to do with my whole body yet either. Hysterectomy is first, as I don't like having clearly female organs. Testosterone will happen, but I am not sure how far I go - enough to masculinize me to an androgynous state, or will I just live as an androgynous male-looking person? Top surgery is iffy - I don't want a female chest, but I don't want a male chest. Where is the middle ground for that?

Quote from: caseyy on May 29, 2011, 04:33:41 AM
Top surgery is iffy - I don't want a female chest, but I don't want a male chest. Where is the middle ground for that?

You can always get reduced to an A/AA cup

I'm gonna chime in here, 'cause in a sense I can relate. It's probably what took me so long to figure out who I am and what I want/need to do. Andro was the first conclusion that I came to, although trying to live that way as a female didn't work. It turns out that while my body does need to be male - I function much better on T than I ever did on E, I *really* need to lose the boobs, I know "that hole" isn't meant to be there - I don't really ID as such. I find it hard telling people questioning me that I'm actually a man, 'cause I don't really feel like one. I actually started feeling recently that I was again suppressing a part of myself - as a "woman" I was burying my masculine side, which was what pushed me to transition in the first place - but now with transition, the female part of me is being buried instead - which is also driving me nuts XP Once the chest is fixed, it'll be easier for me to find a middle ground.

It took me nearly 31 years to figure out my body needed changing. It took me another year to realise that I'm not really a "guy" in the traditional, binary sense of the word, but then I've never done binary Physically FTM, mentally gender-fluid would be the best way to describe me, which is fine. Living as fluid in a binary world is tough though, as you're no doubt aware XP

I don't really experience myself as fluid. My gender doesn't move around so much as people's reactions to me. I will say, though, that openly embracing my pleasure in being read as a boy has allowed me to feel ok about feminine things that I used to reject very loudly and angrily. Like you, I felt like I had to bury a certain side of myself in order to be one thing and not the other.