Changing your perspective on some things can really be an eye opener. If you want to be bullheaded and wallow in your own thoughts and problems and never stop to think a different way or look at things from a different perspective then you're going to have a tough time of things and a tough time growing and learning in life. It's not just about, "kids are starving in China" or any other line like that. It's about your inability to see past your own problems to the larger world and find deeper meaning in things and life in general.

^^
Wow, thank you, exactly. 

I'm not taking the easy way out in helping him?  The easy way out would be not helping him at all.  You haven't been here that long, Jay, but Zombie's been this way for well over a year.  Repeatedly I've tried to cheer him up and get through to him.  None of that has had effect so I thought I would take a more confrontational approach.  If he works with other guys he's perfectly use to that. 

Everyone's pain has major significance.  Never would I say otherwise.  However none of us exist in a bubble unless they stubbornly refuse to see past the end of their nose. 

"I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together."

goo goo g'joob

whenever i get pissed about something that i have to do/suffer through because im trans, i remind myself that what im doing is MY CHOICE.

i dont want a reply with a bullcrap explanation of how you *have* to wear all those binders, that your life would fall apart *if people knew*. im just reminding you that when you get up in the morning, someone doesn't point a gun at your head and say "put these on"

if it comes to the point where binding so excessively causes you so much anger and physical pain, then you are making a poor CHOICE to do it. im not telling you to stop binding, because thats stupid, and trust me i know every type of response you could have to this post so stop with the excuses anymore. just ask yourself, "is what im doing worth all the pain, suffering, and anger it causes me?" if you say no, then stop. no one's putting all those layers on for you. if your answer is yes, then why are you complaining so much?

Suffering is relative. What is painful for one person may mean nothing to another.

My manager at work used to tell me not to get upset when people used the wrong pronouns. I asked her how she would feel if someone kept calling her wrong pronouns. Her answer was she wouldn't care or would find it funny. Really? She should try it sometime. Especially in front of new employees and clients. Then we'll see how degrading and embarrassing it is for her. I told her all of this too.

She doesn't understand it and probably never will. However, over time I think she's starting to see and acknowledge how painful & embarrassing it is for me. Plus, I'm far enough in transition it makes her and other employees look like idiots. Sadly, that's probably their main reason for trying to use correct pronouns. But, I won't give up and cave into their laziness. I'm adamant about people using male pronouns and will keep reminding people.

I know my best, true solution is getting a new job where I can be stealth. I've been working very hard on finding a new job for a long time. I also know in this economy it will take a long time. So, I keep on looking and do my best to put up with the environment at work (which is hell).

It's no lie that some people have it better than others. Some people have more options & resources than others. There are some of us in situations we have no control over and can do little about at the moment. The best we can all do is work with what we've got and plan and focus on what we need. It can take a long time but never give up on your goals.

You saving up for top surgery is a huge step. As for your job, try different things to keep you cooler and, if you want to, job search when you can. Job searching is very time consuming and can be difficult when you're already working- this I know. However, remember that job helps you save money for your goals and without it saving up would be impossible. Use them for the money like they use you.

Life is hard. It was never guaranteed to be fun. In fact, most of the time life overall isn't fun. Despite that we all need to work toward goals and work for a better, happier life. It's hard and takes time, but it will be worth it. I have faith it will.

The pronoun thing is passing privilege (cis people can have/lack passing privilege too). Cis and intersex people who don't have passing privilege - who can't automatically be assured that someone looking at them will read their gender correctly even if another person is using wrong pronouns - get royally pissed off at being misgendered, just as much as trans people do. (Seriously. Go try deliberately misgendering a woman-identified butch lesbian in public sometime. I dare you.)

But people with passing privilege don't understand that. If they get wrong pronouns, it's just funny. They know they're men/women, anyone looking at them can tell they're men/women, so who cares if some idiot is making themselves look stupid by using the wrong pronouns?

Some passing cis women are beginning to experience the invisibility of not passing, to a limited degree, in the last few decades on the Internet. They'd like to be recognized and treated as female, they're irritated at the automatic assumption that they're male based on something superficial like their gaming hobby or whatever, they get pissed off when they try to signal their femaleness (via female avatars, feminine usernames, etc) and get ignored or accused of being male perverts. If the person you're talking to has had any of these experiences, it's not hard to bring them to understand that that's how social interaction feels to you all the time in real life.

This is my first official FTM summer and I know how you feel...I used to wear spandex shorts and razor back tank tops to show off my muscles ( I was a female bodybuilder in my previous existence:) ) but now I am in jeans and a loose shirt or sometimes a compressor tank - though thankfully there is little to compress.
Still...it sucks!

The people where I work have a saying they love so much they put it on the crew shirts:

Pain is mandatory, suffering is optional.

OK, your job has aspects to it that suck.  Pretty much true with all jobs.  That's why they have to pay you to show up. 

But, you don't get paid any more for having a more miserable time than anyone else there, so try not to dwell on it.  Your getting closer and lots of people are standing still, that's something at least.

Nevermind, I didn't start this thread to have it thrown in my face that I shouldn't allow myself to feel this way in spite of fighting it my whole life, only now to succumb to it, for this moment.

since that's all I got, can I have this deleted, mods. please. thanks.

You can delete a topic yourself Zombie, it's at the bottom of the page "Remove Topic" Beside Lock Topic, over quick reply. Can't miss it. I'm sorry your post turned into this, not very considerate of others. Rather than just moving on when you feel that those words cannot help you, they push and push until you feel worse than when you started the topic because then you start feeling selfish, or like you inflict your own pain, and so on. Don't let this stop you from posting again though.

Kyril, that is so true. A cis person will never fully understand, but when they tell me it's no big deal when my gender is mistaken or not acknowledged they can go screw themselves. It's like a white person telling a black person to not get offended if they're called the "n" word just because it didn't bother or affect the white person.

Quote from: zombiesarepeaceful on June 03, 2011, 06:02:37 AM
Nevermind, I didn't start this thread to have it thrown in my face that I shouldn't allow myself to feel this way in spite of fighting it my whole life, only now to succumb to it, for this moment.

since that's all I got, can I have this deleted, mods. please. thanks.

Yeah you could look at it that way or you could look at it as suggestions.  Since you are determined see the worst in everything I suppose I'm not surprised you only see prosecution.

The reality is that people are trying to help you.  This is a support board.  Giving ideas on how to mentally improve yourself is part of support.  If you want people to agree that being constantly suicidal is the best way to be, find folks who just don't care.

Quote from: Squirrel698 on June 03, 2011, 11:39:13 AM
Yeah you could look at it that way or you could look at it as suggestions.  Since you are determined see the worst in everything I suppose I'm not surprised you only see prosecution.

The reality is that people are trying to help you.  This is a support board.  Giving ideas on how to mentally improve yourself is part of support.  If you want people to agree that being constantly suicidal is the best way to be, find folks who just don't care.

Because this comment was so helpful and supportive:

Quote from: Squirrel698 on June 01, 2011, 08:23:57 AM
Stop being such a winy little bitch and start appreciating all the wonderful things you have.  All the opportunity is within your reach.  Be glad for it.  Look at this as an adventure, a journey, instead of another day in hell.  You are not in hell.  Not even close.   

Yeah it was actually.  Once again I wouldn't have bothered if I didn't want to help.

Live for five minutes in a male role among men.  You would see challenges such as that are exchanged to wake the other guy up to reality and get him out of a funk.  In Zombie's job I'm sure he's more than use to that. 

Quote from: Squirrel698 on June 03, 2011, 12:14:53 PM
Yeah it was actually.  Once again I wouldn't have bothered if I didn't want to help.

Live for five minutes in a male role among men.  You would see challenges such as that are exchanged to wake the other guy up to reality and get him out of a funk.  In Zombie's job I'm sure he's more than use to that.

Normally I'd let this bs go, but not today.  I do live in a male role among other men, as does ZAP.  As do a lot of members here even without medically transitioning.  But living as a male doesn't mean acting like a complete ->-bleeped-<-.  I realize you were trying to help, but obviously it didn't:

Quote from: zombiesarepeaceful on June 03, 2011, 06:02:37 AM
Nevermind, I didn't start this thread to have it thrown in my face that I shouldn't allow myself to feel this way in spite of fighting it my whole life, only now to succumb to it, for this moment.

since that's all I got, can I have this deleted, mods. please. thanks.

I'm sure it's very important for you, Paul, to assert your masculinity but there is a time and a place to do so.  Being sensitive, compassionate, and empathetic are qualities much overlooked by men.    Note that I don't say "sympathy."  Pity and sympathy rarely have a place in any conversation.  Sometimes tough love is the best, but other times a more caring approach is necessary.  And that's all I'll say on this topic.

Blah, I wasn't asserting it, just being it.  It was not my intent to be an ->-bleeped-<-. 

You are right and it didn't help.  Personally I think that patting Zombie and telling him it's fine to feel that way doesn't do him any favours either.  Sometimes it's good to be woken up instead of lulled into complacency especially when suicide is talked about so casually.  It should never be on the table as a possible option especially when the situation is so temporary. 

Whatever people who know me on this site know I'm a really nice guy.  I was just trying to get him to look at his current state differently.  However he is determined to be set in his ways.

I used to be suicidal and obsess about how I'd kill myself. But once I understood that I have the option to transition, all of that went away and I've been a lot happier working toward that ultimate goal of living my own life as a man. It sure has sucked big time for me having to live under the label and expectations of a female that I never could live up to. But I finally know the way out of misery, and that's what I work for every day.

From all the replies to Zombie in this thread, the way you all talk about him makes him sound like my boyfriend (yeah that's still going on). He's completely incorrigible and I've never met someone who wallows so deeply in their own misery. Seeing his level of wallow is part of what forced me out of my own wallowing. (And the rest of him forced me into realizing I am so not meant to play the role of the woman. )

I also know Zombie's been through alot, and we all have times where we get depressed and frustrated- even in transition. I still emphasis to define and go after his goals. There will be setbacks- many setbacks- but keep on moving towards your goal.

I assume Zombie's big current goal is top surgery. Keep working towards that goal man and making money. I know factories can be hot- I've been in them before. Maybe try people's suggested methods for keeping cool. Also, can you completely wet your shirt to keep you cool. It's worked for me and I'm sure the other guys wouldn't think anything of it. Hell, it might give them the idea too. As long as you're not wearing a dark binder and light shirt you should be O.K.

As for your chaffing junk I recommend Aquaphor Healing Ointment (Wal-Mart has a generic brand alot cheaper). I use it on my scars and haven't tried it on my junk but it would be completely safe. I believe someone recommended Butt Butter and my father swears on it (he's a cyclist).

My brother-in-law worked in a steel factory and because of an unknown illness the heat became too much for him and he went into renal failure. He had to quit that job but went into the welding field and has no problem in the environments and makes way more money. Sometimes it seems like our options are limited- and sometimes they are. Keep doing research to find out the options available to you (like a different job). You'd be surprised how you learn about more options for you. Research when you have time. Research is the key to everything.

Seriously guys? You're still going? Can we just end this? It's not going anywhere.