Transgender prom queen from Davie riding media wave

By Susannah Bryan, Sun Sentinel
June 11, 2011

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/fl-transgender-prom-queen-folo-20110611,0,4434720.story

Andrew Viveros. Transgender prom queen. Instant celebrity.

The interview requests have been pouring in since Viveros, 17, became one of the nation's few transgender prom queens on May 27 at McFatter Technical High School in Davie.

Diane Sawyer's team called. So did The View, Univision and Telemundo. Even Gloria Estefan phoned just to say, "You go girl."

From what I have seen and read so far, there seems an element of "gay" and "drag" here and not so much TG or TS.  Let's hope if Andii is gay and into drag, and not TG or TS, she doesn't present herself as being representative of who WE are.

Yeah and the use of a a male name? I can understand how some people are kicking up a fuss and saying "Andrew" stole the title from others that are more entitled.
The law states that you must have completed surgery in order to be considered the sex you transition to. I do consider myself open to diversity...considering my own life and experiences but sometimes it seems like some people want to push boundaries and test people.. I don't know I just consider this to be a bit questionable so far. There is a difference between transgender and transsexual after all.

saying "Andrew" stole the title from others that are more entitled.

Who or what would be 'more entitled' to be prom queen?  It's a pretty silly idea in the first place and I'm happy the students see it for what it is, something to have fun with.  At least they didn't vote in Carrie.  That was bad you know.  And the person is just one more part of the spectrum, and I don't think that they trying to representative of anything, seems like a way to grab that bit of the spotlight that's obviously been craving for a long time: she has wanted to "be the queen of something" ever since wearing a boa and tiara at age 8.

Well the way this article is constructed is pretty confusing, but on the whole? No real element of 'gayness' or 'dragness' here other than being a part of pride and doing drag shows for charity and wanting to be good at it. Hardly an indicator of not being TS.

And as for the name thing...you do realise she goes by Andii, just doesn't freak out about people using her birth name of Andrew. Even in the article it's others using Andrew, not her. Other people misnaming you, or an article in the news getting it wrong is grounds for questioning whether someone is Trans or not now? And besides, legally in Florida at 17 she would have been too young to apply for a name change on her own until this year. If she was being officially referred to as Andrew all the time because of that, then just getting through it quietly is no great shame.

Quote from: Julie Marie on June 11, 2011, 10:32:02 AM
From what I have seen and read so far, there seems an element of "gay" and "drag" here and not so much TG or TS.  Let's hope if Andii is gay and into drag, and not TG or TS, she doesn't present herself as being representative of who WE are.

The introduction to this video, she says Hi, my name is Andrew Viveros and I'm transgender.



The video is worth watching.

I think it is because she has not changed her name yet.  And she does go by "Andii".

Quote from: Julie Marie on June 11, 2011, 10:32:02 AM
From what I have seen and read so far, there seems an element of "gay" and "drag" here and not so much TG or TS.  Let's hope if Andii is gay and into drag, and not TG or TS, she doesn't present herself as being representative of who WE are.

The irony here is rich...gay or drag are components that were ostensibly being put under the whole TG umbrella. 

Perhaps NOW some will see why I was so vehement in my protestation to being included under the umbrella...as has been noted time and again in many recent blogs and posts, there may be some overlap, but transsexuality is its own thing and really IS separate and distinct from other gender-related issues or presentations.

This isn't the first article I've seen recently that I feel only fuels the confusion amongst the general population of what is male and what is female. It highly suggests that the state of male or female is just something you "decide" at the flick of a switch.

The article doesn't say 'transexual' anywhere.  Since this has been going on since about 8 I'll just give the whole deal the benefit of the doubt and I tend to roll with include, rather than exclude, as a general rule.  It's June, it's LGBTxyz everywhere month, so that gets put in there.  To the degree that positive publicity (i.e., not in court, being accused of felonies, or in jail, or beat up or killed, or on Springer going "have I got a surprise for you') then I'm OK with it. 

I'm a big fan of as many people making 'It gets better' videos as possible.  There is not one possible outcome, but an infinite number of ways people become who they really are.  Who knows in a year, ten, or more, or tomorrow that different realizations will be made?

like girls being about to win titles meant for boys and boys wining titles for girls? Maybe I'm playing the devils advocate or trying to see it from the uneducated point of view, I just feel we need to be clear on what we need. Every time we make a step forward we want more and more. The general public are still as a whole struggling with the meaning of gender and sex so when they see people that want to express a gender that is different to their sex they lump it in with those that do change their sex. We get thrown in the same box yet we're not the same. I think it's great that people express themselves how they feel makes them most comfortable that is awesome just not when it's done with an assumption that everyone will understand where they're coming from.

I tried looking for more info on Andrew but I found nothing that explains her situation, in a way that "educates".

Maybe my sex change really was redundant, maybe I am just a boy that considers myself female, maybe the general public are right. <--- this.

She's 17, and doesn't need to make up her mind right away as to where on the gender spectrum she might feel comfortable. I applaud her bravery in being herself and winning to be prom queen. I couldn't have imagined this to be possible when I was in high school.

Z

Quote from: Julie Marie on June 11, 2011, 10:32:02 AM
From what I have seen and read so far, there seems an element of "gay" and "drag" here and not so much TG or TS.  Let's hope if Andii is gay and into drag, and not TG or TS, she doesn't present herself as being representative of who WE are.

*WE* are a diverse group of people, please! The more I settle as a woman the more I come to see myself as just a human.
The more I accept myself the more I tend to accept others too. Some feminists were accused of dividing the sisterhood, when they didn't accept transgender people. Let's not do the same ourselves.

You said it right there "make up her mind", like it's some decision/choice... we create this premise that we do "know" who we are and when gatekeepers question us we get frustrated. Maybe she is transgender and may never go beyond that, but I still havent heard her express that. Who and what is she? I know about this topic unlike the general population and even I don't know where she currently stands. What is her deal?

Stealin titles from girls that were born girls? that is no doubt what a lot of the general population think because they just don't know. BUT.... maybe the runner up was proud of her... maybe not.... maybe some were and some wernt, does that even matter? maybe not.... but personally I am interested to know how andrew identifies and how that fits into the big picture.. not just for my sake but the general public.

Quote from: Zythyra on June 11, 2011, 10:35:32 PM
She's 17, and doesn't need to make up her mind right away as to where on the gender spectrum she might feel comfortable.

I have to agree with Muffin. 

My having been born with a transsexual medical condition was NOT a choice.  I didn't CHOOSE this life...and by 17, there was NO question about where my life was headed, the only question was how long it was going to take to find a shrink who was willing to acknowledge that persons with my birth defect could, in fact, also be lesbian in orientation.

The more that we let the general public believe that corrective surgery is about fulfilling a CHOICE, the more difficult the umbrella collective makes it upon those of us who simply want to get on with life.  And while I am glad to see a student body willing to consider options, I am at the same time saddened by the immense confusion that the general public is left with as a result of these sorts of stories.   

As we go through transition we usually experience a change in how we self identify.  Look at it as one's view of oneself maturing.  Denial, social pressure and social conditioning can create obstacles for us to finally arrive at the realization of who we really are. That can delay the process too.  So I have no problem with Andii not self identifying.  By leaving that out of her message, the message becomes all inclusive.  But there will be people who will answer the question on their own and use it to send a negative message.  And that concerns me but when we get exposure, it's inevitable.

Like Kat, I saw Andii as really loving the limelight.  That in itself isn't good or bad.  But that love for attention can cause someone to focus more on getting attention and less or not at all about sending a positive message.  Her message is "It Gets Better" and, after seeing Dan Savage's original message, I hope the wave continues.  I got goosebumps watching the original.  Not so much with Andii's.  But she's a young kid, and certainly not as erudite, eloquent or experienced as Dan Savage.

With all she has planned, time will tell what message she will ultimately send, and it looks like she has plans to maximize her exposure so that message could be sent everywhere.  If she is truly trans, I hope she remembers her words can affect a lot of people, positively or negatively.  That's a lot of responsibility for someone her age.  If she is gay and into drag, I hope she clarifies that in her media appearances.  And if she's just a media hound, people will know soon enough.  We would then just have to hope she doesn't leave any damage behind.

So many of us cheered and supported Susan Stanton, and look how that turned out.  We need to be cautious who we support as our representative.

First professional sports team to make one, your - well at least my - San Francisco Giants.
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2011/06/sf-giants-become-first-sports-team-join-it-gets-better-campaign/38378/


When I was raising kids I had an Iron Rule.  It was this:
I'm not going to talk/discuss/argue about anything for longer than it takes to do it.
It worked so well that I still use that rule at work, and it works.  I'm not going to spend 15 minutes having some huge work-stopping, doughnut-eating hubbub about a job that's only going to take 5 minutes to do in the first place.

Likewise, I think it would be swell if people could adopt a rule that basically says:
I'm not going to treat this any more seriously than the people involved do/did.

People, it's a prom.  It's a pretend grown-up event largely for people who are not going to grow up enough in the foreseeable future to do it on their own.  It's put on primarily for HS Seniors at the end of their senior year, so perhaps the most frivolousness, silly, and time-wasting period in a young persons life.  Parents might swoon to see their little crotchfruit dressed up like adults and all, but the kids doing it only want to is to get those clothes off and make the beast with two backs.  Prom night is the closest thing to a 'mandatory sex night' that exists, and with that fueling the fire of 17 year olds, there's not much room left for the torches to burn bright at much else.  Add some form of chemical recreation (and there's a pharmacopia for them to choose from) and it's off to the races.  I bet more bad decisions and iccky regrets and messy+ clumsy attempts at coitus happen on Prom Night more than any other single night.  That's to say that the people making this decision/vote are not really into it.  It's just the last high school popularity poll, and by that point in their senior year everyone knows what the running order for that is.  Know what I mean?

For that reason I'm not going to try to read into one election for Prom Queen (a queen without property or subjcts, so not that big a deal) some huge social import.  Really, it's like RedState or FreeRepublic, it's NOT some cultural touchstone, it has no impact on the society at large, hell, it's in Florida which always causes me to take a couple huge steps back^*, and stranger things have happened.  So I'll wait and not think of it as the beginning of some movement, until it is.

You know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and they won't take him.  And if two people, two people do it, in harmony, they may think they're both ->-bleeped-<-gots and they won't take either of them.  And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's an organization.  And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said fifty people a day walking in singing a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out.  And friends they may thinks it's a movement.

Like Arlo wisely says, only one school doing it, we can write them off as crazy, or it was a joke, I'm not going to care until 30 high schools do it next year.  And 200 the year after that.  And when that happens I'm sure not going to moan it, I'm going to celebrate it.

And hey, didn't a whole bunch of people, now, and for the past 20 years or so - haven't they been working for a day when people are allowed to be who they are and explore things without being bullied and picked on?  To be free to express their identity.  To be free to find their identity and the best expression of it?  How is this not part of that?  Isn't this what people wanted?  Isn't it the point of the whole 'it gets better' deal in the first place?



* - There are some places in the US that are so freaking different that all you can do sometimes is say: "Oh you know, that's just ________."  California, Florida, Texas and New York City all qualify.  And Florida in particular seems to exist to make the other states look pretty good in comparison.  California and Texas exist as warnings to fellow travelers.  "Careful what you do there Topeka, you might end up like San Francisco (minus the fog and the coffee shops I'm guessing).  That's because not only do they both have this self-centered and radically different cultures, but they both have the WORST state governments in the US for completely different reasons.  So other states can always go: "Well, at least we're not as bad as California/Texas."  But the Florida crowd?  Too much time in the sun?  Something in the water? 

the prom factor is a moot point in my eyes it's about how the public view andrew, what is she and what is her deal? I wanted to act on behalf of the unknowing general public... you know those that don't understand the difference between transgender and transsexual. Things will get better.... maybe, but maybe things will get better sooner if you let people know what your deal is! People will make up their minds themselves otherwise and some even if you do lay it out in laymans terms. It's very easy to sit back and say "well I know", and forget all about the general public.. so many people seem to just expect people to automatically understand and "get it", just because they do and that is so far from reality. People don't know and they have their own idea of what is from many factors including every time there is someone speaking on this minorities behalf they don't educate and from bigoted haters that fill in the gaps for us. It's kinda frustrating. It's harder to consider someone delusional when they can explain their situation clearly and precisely in one or two sentences. It may seem sad to have to preface your existence but if it potentially makes things easier then...

Quote from: Ann Onymous on June 11, 2011, 11:46:30 PM

The more that we let the general public believe that corrective surgery is about fulfilling a CHOICE, the more difficult the umbrella collective makes it upon those of us who simply want to get on with life.  And while I am glad to see a student body willing to consider options, I am at the same time saddened by the immense confusion that the general public is left with as a result of these sorts of stories.

I say, with respect, I don't think you've thought that through.

Having surgery is a choice because we all have to sign a conscent form. Being transgender isn't. Neither is the nature of that ir it severity.

Now we could speculate that, where it is quite mild, it tends to emerge in the form of minor behaviours or perhaps some preferences in appearance. While at its most severe, it is a burning, internal desire, left unfulfiled, will lead to depression and suicide.

But that would simply be specualtion.

What we can say is that each of us, all humans, have an innate right to express themselves. That surgical procedures are now available that will help those most affected, to lead a more normal and natural life.

But claiming that the surgery or even the actual transison was not a choice is a very flawed claim.

Quote from: Muffin on June 11, 2011, 10:46:18 PM
You said it right there "make up her mind", like it's some decision/choice...

I didn't say anything about this being a "decision/choice", that's an erroneous conclusion of what I actually said. She is young and has time to figure out what this all means for her.

Z