Quote from: Plain Jane on June 20, 2011, 11:16:39 AM
Tanner stages?

Never mind, found that on Wikipedia.

Quote from: Plain Jane on June 19, 2011, 05:43:55 AM
I gather the lack of progesterone is was causes that breast shape? Can anyone expand on this (no pun intended)? I assume that after all this time (about 17 years post-SRS) it is too late to rectify (right?).

No that much time post-operative is not 'too late.'  We added progesterone to my mix roughly 15 years after and there was still growth/development to be had. 

However, every person is different...so my experience may not translate the same as yours or anyone elses in a statistically significant manner.

There have been members here at Susan's who swear that progesterone is the only way to avoid the dreaded conical breasts. *  While others reply no, no and thrice no to progesterone.

*  If you want my opinion I believe that conical breasts are caused by too little oestrogen.  Don't forget that genetic girls' bodies are flooded with natural oestrogen - they also get natural progesterone but from my reading progesterone serves to keep the vagina moist and has little or nothing to do with breast development.   We on the other hand get paltry amounts of SYNTHETIC oestrogen and wonder why our breasts are small and irregular looking.  Women who swear by progesterone are not thinking logically.  They think 'well I took A and B happened so A MUST have caused B'. 

'You may have noticed that the less I know about a subject the more confidence I have, and the more new light I throw on it.'
Mark Twain

Quote from: Padma on June 20, 2011, 08:15:43 AM
I'm also reminded of the bit in LA Story where Steve Martin feels up Sarah Jessica Parker, frowns, and says "Your breasts feel weird..." and she just replies matter-of-factly "Oh, yeah - they're real." I wonder how much of our current mental image of a "normal" breast is based on the already-upgraded version that's so prevalent in media these days?

I totally don't wonder how much.

Quote from: JessicaH on June 20, 2011, 11:10:35 AM
It is rare to make it through all the Tanner stages unles you start HRT as a teen. I suspect that the reason is becasue the older you get, the less growth hormones you produce.

Then I'm rare. I made it all the way to stage five, and I used progesterone for two years.

Hi, I have read that progesterone helps in breast growth and I have also heard that is does, it seems like it should be cycled, like on for a while and then off for a while.  You Dr. will know more about these things, atleast he or she should.
When it comes to breast size I will be happy if I get a A or a B cup.  I see before and after pictures of girls that get breast implants and I tell myself "what are you doing, your ruining your boobs"  most of them look just fine before and look terrible after, they look too fake and I dont like the idea that the have a life expectancy of about 10 years, so you will need to have another surgery sooner or later.
I like natural breasts weather they are small med. or a bit bigger than med.
I am not a fan of real big boobs, I think size C would be the biggest I would want to go, I love to talk about boobs I could do this all day, I cant wait until I get mine after I start HRT.  Aloha everyone.

Jennie

"You Dr. will know more about these things, atleast he or she should."

Doctor A = yes, Doctor B = no, Doctor C = 0_o, Doctor D = *cough*, Doctor E = "When I was schooled back in 1967..".. etc.

lols.

Quote from: Jennie on June 21, 2011, 04:37:46 AM
You Dr. will know more about these things, atleast he or she should.

Even the biggest names in Trans Medecine either disagree or simpy say they don't know.  Without real medical studies, it is hard to get definitive information on things like that and sometimes it's hard to tease the truth from the statistics without a study of many years followig many thousands of subjects.

Oh, people are talking about me. As they said, as there seems to be lacking proofs of progesterone's effectiveness, even doctors are mostly led by opinion on this subject.
Personally, I have been convinced by a few anecdotes of people who were having a stall in their breasts' development on top of finding them not very good-looking and
weird-shaped. Then they were put on progesterone and their breasts resumed their development and achieved a much fuller shape.

In any case, I feel it should be tried before it is rejected, as there are at least some examples of good results.

I had my concerns when P was added and my E was reduced, but have had fairly good luck with it so I can't complain    I can visually see that it has helped with the overall size and shape of my breasts

Kia Ora,

The endocrinologist I saw when I started my transition [well it was a while into it] once told me because of our bone structure [chest frame] when M2Fs develop breasts they tend to migrate to the sides, reducing the appearance of full frontal development, and one way to correct this is to buy a "training" bra...

Metta Zenda

I also have to wonder about synthetic progesterone versus natural.  My doc doesn't prescribe any progesterone but has me on depo provera (a synthetic) as an anti-androgen because spiro didn't work for me at all.  When my E dosage was increased in March, I finally started to develop breasts at an appreciable rate, but I notice too that my nipples point way outward.  So much so that when wearing a bra, the outside of the areola is less than an inch from the outside edge of the bra, but the inside of the areola is a good three inches from the bra's inside edge.  Non-padded bras are pretty much useless since 3/4 of it just gets squished down.

I should say also that glandular development is pretty centered, as is fat distribution.  I don't notice the entire breast structure pointing outward at all.  It's just my nipples that are way off center for some reason.

Zoë Natasha: I don't have the details, but they say artificial progesterone should be avoided at all costs because it carries many risks on top of having poorer results.

I've read that micronized progesterone is "bio-identical" to natural progesterone, and safer; while synthetic progestins are different and dangerous. I could be misquoting. I brought up P to my doctor, and she said she'd have no problem prescribing it but she'd rather I wait until later to see how far my current meds take me. She's an amazing doctor, and I adore her and her staff.

Quote from: A on June 21, 2011, 03:32:17 PM
Zoë Natasha: I don't have the details, but they say artificial progesterone should be avoided at all costs because it carries many risks on top of having poorer results.

Well crap... my doc doesn't prescribe progesterone.   Also, she only does spiro or depo as an anti-androgen, so I don't have any other choice since spiro didn't work.  I'll have a chat with her in September about all of this.

I've read that micronized progesterone is "bio-identical" to natural progesterone, and safer; while synthetic progestins are different and dangerous.

You are correct    That's what I was told also and I was put on a micronised P

Quote from: Plain Jane on June 19, 2011, 05:43:55 AM
I was just reading a post by A in a different topic in which she mentions "classic transsexual breasts" as being elongated and pointed sideways. Mine aren't particularly elongated (at least I don't think so), but are pointed sideways. During my transition (many years ago) I was only on E. I have never been prescribed progesterone.

I gather the lack of progesterone is was causes that breast shape? Can anyone expand on this (no pun intended)? I assume that after all this time (about 17 years post-SRS) it is too late to rectify (right?).

Just ask the "experts" and yourself what kind of progesterone levels does the developing tenn female body has?

Now for the true: progesterone will cause the brest to grow, just ask any pregnat or lactating female. A small does of P is reccomended for TS undegoing HRT.

More truths: the shape and/or pointing-direction of breast is gentically determied and has nothing to do with the hormone regime

Kate D

PS. If most females in your family have breast that point outward, then it is very likely that your will also do so.

I'm sure in that particular txt file I posted there is info about a biopsy done on a mtf breast that had no P and another mtf breast that did have P and the one with P showed much more development in parts that are know to be more respondent to P. In a nut shell. This and the fact, yes I said fact that P and E work together, mtfs produce P naturally but typically at lower levels than the average cisfem. Supplementing does show positive results. Also there are two kinds of synthetic progestins and from what I've read all the testing that ends up in the doctors hands is from a particular type, the crap type. The other, better form of progestin that doesn't convert to T is much safer, but not as common. Perhaps it's not as ideal for cisgender ladies so we only get what is on the market for them. Needless to say progesterones are obviously going to be more ideal. If they are avail in your area *shakes fist*. Actually *puts fist away*.. there is BHRT compounding which I've been looking into, from what I've read that is the #1 method imo bioidentical and not mixed with anything else so 100% pure ..though possibly more expensive.

in my case anything is an improvment on my old male chest, i have some sort of weird bone deformity where my ribs are at a sharp angle on either side to a 3 inch or so flat piece of bone - sort of use to look a bit like the bit from aliens just before the monster come out, use to scare the hell out of customs at airports as they would wonder what the very hard flat lump was under my t-shirt. Once the customs persons friend just stared like mad when they made me pull my shirt up and walked stright into a wall!

Now with breasts, which are going a bit side ways (but I put this down to the sharp angle of the ribs) everything looks a lot more normal, and with a push up bra looks even good :-).

THere is a page you can find by googling "second type woman breast" and it talks about typical trans breast development.  If you are over 20, you typically end up with Tanner III, Tanner IV instead of Tanner V.