Why do I come on a thread like this after Jenny?

I assure you it is coincidence.

Who gives a ->-bleeped-<-.

It is confidence in being you. no level of make up. boob jobs etc will make you look like a superstar. And if you are you will be picked out. Meaghan Gale was insulted (today) in Australia by a bad ID person for being ordinary.
She may be but why do we insult people anyway.

What does it matter how I look? What does it it matter how you look?

Isn't the question; Who am I?

Accept you.

Cindy, I wish I had not logged onto this post

Quote from: Cindy James on July 01, 2011, 05:25:55 AM
It is confidence in being you.

I've been called "ma'am" thrice while in guy mode, with facial hair.

No shens.

I don't think there is anything wrong with someone who is in the early stages of transition or even slightly further in to ask... let me repeat that ASK for someone else's outside opinion on a picture of them self. And it's just that a picture of their physical form or dress sense that is what they're asking to be rated so rate it! ..but that to me is beside the point... it's about people's honesty in regards to what they see in that picture. Maybe they really do think they look fabulous and passable and maybe they're the only one in a billion to think so but the important think is honesty and that is the point here. Nothing is gained by telling someone a lie in fact in this instance it can be dangerous as you all know.

Different people have different reasons for wanting to pass, different senses of what it means to pass, or don't see things in terms of passing. Can we please respect each other's differences whilst sharing our own perspectives. [This isn't aimed at any one person, just another gentle reminder not to get sidetracked by "I'm right so you're wrong!!" arguments when we could be listening more to each other's experience.]

Perception is so subjective anyway, that how I think someone else (or myself) looks is just going to be my own take on it. As a dykey-tomboy hippy, I find a lot of mainstream women's fashion and makeup a real turn-off, so I know I've got very little useful feedback to give anyone (except to say they look hot if I think they look hot - ans a lot of that is often down to their smile ).

OK Sorry gone back to a few early posts.

But this thread seems to have been hijacked  more than a few times.

How good or bad do you look?
Look in a mirror. I do not mean that rudely!! Look at yourself. If you do not accept you, why do you expect anyone else to?

Cindy

Quote from: Cindy James on July 01, 2011, 05:55:39 AM
Look in a mirror. I do not mean that rudely!! Look at yourself. If you do not accept you, why do you expect anyone else to?

there are times when I think I look ->-bleeped-<- and I'll be all down and my parents will ask why and they'll be all like "don't be silly you look fine!", like as if to say I'm just looking to close at the mirror.. and I sometimes do and all I see is the old me or the parts that have similarities. There is a name for it, I was talking to a friend about it a few weeks ago. But anyways I think it's possible to hate yourself but for others to think you're ok, they see your good points even if you're temporarily blinded to them. Sometimes it takes a simple outside opinion to snap you out of your own over analysing destructive views. Though sometimes you may think you look ->-bleeped-<--hott in a new outfit and then someone will be like "bitch please!".. and you'll be like..... "aawww yeah I guess so". xP

The point I'm trying to make (possibly badly) is that of you have to ask the question, then at some level you all ready expect to fail...basically asking the question is seeking validation about yourself. So even if the person questioning is genuinely stunning, the fact they need to ask means that any reply is the equivilent of a piece of two by four proping up a wall and isn't a particularly healthy thing at all (even if the replies are genuine and honest).

I remember ages ago I posted a pic to see if I looked ok enough to show online friends (that didn't know)... I could see my old self in the pic and I was really unsure if others also could. I had no idea what the reply was going to be... well...that's not completely true.. I was expecting at least someone to say "looks a bit dudish". But nope it got the all clear. I was shocked and elated, it made me feel good about myself and helped evaporate my uncertainty. I then posted it on other webpages and I never got any troll action. So I feel that the thread was effective. IF I had been trolled and called a ->-bleeped-<- etc then I may of felt like I had been lied to.

Sometimes a bit of validation is good and can help you gain confidence, but if you're posting a new picture everyday/week then that speaks of insecurities. Everyone likes to be told once in a while that they look nice...it's just if it's all the time.

Affirmation is a hell of a drug . It's good stuff (if it's pure, and not cut with affirm-me-back), but it's not nutritious enough by itself if we can't grow our own, and it's definitely habit-forming.

The days when I feel good, looking in the mirror, are not the "you look good!" ones, they're the "I like you!" ones. My idea of how good I look is so strongly influenced by my state of mind at the time, I know I need to pay more attention to my emotional outfit than my sartorial one.

I've learnt to take what i see in the mirror with a pinch of salt because I have body dismorphia issues that have sweet fa to do with being trans. some days I genuinely struggle not to see how fat i think I am...but then I have a history of anorexia so I think being 60kg is drastically overweight and could happily lose 4 or 5 kilos (despite at a concious level knowing doing so would be a very bad thing indeed)

Personally I prefer longboarding as my drug of choice as opposed to affirmation, despite all the bumps, scrapes and bruises I've collected in the last 3 months it's a lot better for me.

Quote from: Gravity's Child on July 01, 2011, 02:58:04 AM
But y'all the ones saying "if you really want to know that you pass do x,y or z". Even the term passing has overt connotations of passing a test, and really, if you can't see that if you're worried about passing means that deep down you're worried that you don't then i can tell you all the things I've learnt the hard way to my hearts content, but it won't help you. Grasshopper must reach understanding on her own.

All this passing angst is just pointless, let it go, stop being scared that you won't and guess what, you'll end up passing the "female test" even on ugly thursdays when you have your weekly electrolisis and a bunch of sketchers take an interest in you and start up the converstaion and one notices that you have facial hair, but they still call you love and darling.

I don't need to pass as female because I am female, regardless of my outward presentation.

It is easy for you to dismiss these concerns because you have the benifit of looking completely natal. Not everyone is as lucky as you.

That may be so, but I still get mis-gendered from time to time. The point is because i am comfortable with who I am and don't need external validation to know I'm female, I can shrug them off with a laugh. There are a few people here who I think are far far prettier than I will ever be who don't have my surety of self, who in a similar situation would possibly get flustered and defensive causing the person who (most likey) mis-gendered them completely inadvertantly, to question exactly why they got so upset and start putting pieces together and to probably read them as being male (which is the one thing they fear in the first place).

You say I look like a natal female, but even with that, if I was scared about being percieved as male then I would give myself away in the situations where people misgender me. To me, desperately needing validation is just as damaging (if not more so) as not being honest with someone about their outward appearance.

Quote from: Gravity's Child on July 01, 2011, 09:25:10 AM
You say I look like a natal female, but even with that, if I was scared about being percieved as male then I would give myself away in the situations where people misgender me. To me, desperately needing validation is just as damaging (if not more so) as not being honest with someone about their outward appearance.

I would probably have to concur with those sentiments...we are all obviously our own worst critics, and yeah, insecurities are a part of life.  But when one is reduced to posting pics on a forum that seeks a 2D-based validation that does not incorporate all of life's other cues, it becomes more difficult to simply function in society.

it becomes more difficult to simply function in society

I'd assume that's putting the cart before the horse, if you were functioning in society you wouldn't be asking in the first place.

in all honesty, what does it really matter if we "pass" or not?  If someone doesnt pass are they going to halt their transition and stay in the closet forever or only live as female within the confines of their own home?  Likewise, it doesnt do anygood to patronize others and give them a false sense of security.  In regards to the "do i pass" thread, take a pic and look at it.....you'll know whether or pass or not

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on July 01, 2011, 10:13:10 AM
in all honesty, what does it really matter if we "pass" or not?  If someone doesnt pass are they going to halt their transition and stay in the closet forever or only live as female within the confines of their own home?  Likewise, it doesnt do anygood to patronize others and give them a false sense of security.  In regards to the "do i pass" thread, take a pic and look at it.....you'll know whether or pass or not

Maybe it could be (for some) do I pass wearing this outfit? Or does my hair look good like this? etc etc.

Quote from: Muffin on July 01, 2011, 10:16:21 AM
Maybe it could be (for some) do I pass wearing this outfit? Or does my hair look good like this? etc etc.

I think, and this is just my personal opinion, that if such a question was asked, it's probably a good idea that maybe the particular outfit need not be worn?  From what I've seen, the biggest problem that some have with passing is what they wear.  Being female does not automatically mean we wear miniskirts, spaghetti tops, heels and tons of makeup.  when it comes to dressing, we gotta compliment and work with what we have.

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on July 01, 2011, 10:13:10 AM
in all honesty, what does it really matter if we "pass" or not?  If someone doesnt pass are they going to halt their transition and stay in the closet forever or only live as female within the confines of their own home?  Likewise, it doesnt do anygood to patronize others and give them a false sense of security.  In regards to the "do i pass" thread, take a pic and look at it.....you'll know whether or pass or not

Exactely,  ....or go out in the street among everyday folk . You'll soon know whether you pass or not.

May I please interject a friendly reminder that this is a support site and different people need support in different ways.  Just because one person has no problem working from the inside out doesn't mean that everybody can do it, and passing threads are a starting point to building the outer confidence they need to start working on issues within.  The beauty of life is the breathtaking variation of the human condition, and calling people shallow or directly attacking the type of support they need is only going to hurt them, and it will hurt us all in the long run when they leave the site and can't bring their valuable perspectives to the discussion.

Do you really want to be in the echo chamber?  Because I assure you it's deafening.

Please lighten up a bit and don't forget that we're talking about people who need support.  We all need it from time to time, we need it in differing amounts, and how would you feel if you got shut down and insulted in your own time of need?