Quote from: Cameron James on July 19, 2011, 03:45:25 PM
Chaz Bono is....not my favorite person. He did an interview where he said that T changed his entire personality and that since starting T he hates "chick stuff." He's also stated several times that there is only male or female - and that there aren't any in between places in gender. I really don't think he should be the face of the FTM community either, but we'll see what happens with that. Hopefully he'll just fade into the background...

the first week after I started T I brought 4 hallo kitty caps, to join the hallo kitty team (on some festival)
and pink hallo kitty icecream.. oh yeah T diffently makes your more maculine..

I don't really care to be "stealth." I agree that a large part of the reason transmen aren't depicted too accurately in the media is likely that many of us just fade into the background after transition, so it's tough for anyone to really know what it's truly like.

The L Word.... I loved it for the first two seasons. Then came Moira/Max. The episode where he has Alan Cumming give him a ->-bleeped-<- was the last I saw; how's that for a despicable portrayal of a transman? I know there is, unfortunately, a great amount of bias in the lesbian community toward transmen, but come on!

I have to disagree, though, about Chaz Bono... I like him. I may be making myself an enemy by saying this, but seeing his documentary was the first time I felt I really, truly was not alone. Maybe it's because I, too, was a great guy until testosterone. The documentary, though, tells exactly what I've realized: it's not the testosterone that changes you, it's the feeling of empowerment. If you've never been hurt, and suddenly have that empowerment, I think it can enable you to take on the world, rather than becoming an angry, aggressive guy. However, if you've felt for your entire life that you've been put upon and stepped on, you can use that assertiveness to get back at people... and this can be an incredibly destructive thing.

I second the recommendation on Degrassi; I am hopelessly addicted to the show despite being far past the teenage years myself, and I think they've done a great job with Adam's character (the ftm character). If only it were easier to view in the U.S.

Maybe it's just me, but I thought the Max character on the L Word wasn't all that far-fetched.   I can't tell you how many posts just on other trans forums I'd seen just when lurking over the past couple of years where transmen were being sexist and spouting out tired gender stereotypes that were almost as bad as Max's 'lobster story'.   I also can think of countless angry, self pitying threads about having to wear binders, rich relatives/friends refusing to help pay for surgery, ect.   I've seen threads from girlfriends of transitioning FTM's pleading for help understanding and helping their withdrawn, sullen, and even aggressive boyfriends.   Also, Alan Cummings giving Max a ->-bleeped-<-?  Also far from unheard of, plenty of transmen who before transition were only with women end up experimenting with men once they're more comfortable and being treated as men.  Check out the Craigslist personals in more trans-friendly cities for proof of that.  So many of those guys admit to having girlfriends too. 

In later seasons, Max is actually a more likable character(although the whole pregnancy thing was kind of dramatic), but I never really took his portrayal in earlier seasons as a slight against transmen, more as a cautionary tale about a hasty young man with a crappy childhood who took testosterone off the street from a crack addict and made other bad decisions.  I took his transition story as what not to do,  he was so self-absorbed that he was obnoxious beyond words, without a doubt.   I think the writers' treatment of some of the lesbian characters was worse though.  Jenny, for example.

tl;dr  Was Max the best depiction for FTM's?  Nope, he was a total prat, but I've totally come across transmen like him, so it wasn't completely inaccurate either.   My guess is that the creators of the show (who are lesbians) had run across a few obnoxious transmen in their lives who inspired 'Max'.   ><

As for Chaz, I don't know enough about him to form an opinion.  Buck Angel is awesome though, and I look forward to his new documentary.

I am one of these type who dont think a ->-bleeped-<- is a bad symbol of trans people
--
but well its 1 person so it sure wouldnt cover much of all transmen,
it not like when you have the lesbian characters, the tomboyish, the one in relationship, the this and that, or gay team where you have the nerdy, the badass, the innoncent twinks so on..

I diffently feel there should be a trans show only focusing on mtf and ftm of all diffrent types.
it woud be awsome,

Quote from: Sebastien on July 19, 2011, 06:07:42 PM
I don't really care to be "stealth." I agree that a large part of the reason transmen aren't depicted too accurately in the media is likely that many of us just fade into the background after transition, so it's tough for anyone to really know what it's truly like.

The L Word.... I loved it for the first two seasons. Then came Moira/Max. The episode where he has Alan Cumming give him a ->-bleeped-<- was the last I saw; how's that for a despicable portrayal of a transman? I know there is, unfortunately, a great amount of bias in the lesbian community toward transmen, but come on!

I have to disagree, though, about Chaz Bono... I like him. I may be making myself an enemy by saying this, but seeing his documentary was the first time I felt I really, truly was not alone. Maybe it's because I, too, was a great guy until testosterone. The documentary, though, tells exactly what I've realized: it's not the testosterone that changes you, it's the feeling of empowerment. If you've never been hurt, and suddenly have that empowerment, I think it can enable you to take on the world, rather than becoming an angry, aggressive guy. However, if you've felt for your entire life that you've been put upon and stepped on, you can use that assertiveness to get back at people... and this can be an incredibly destructive thing.

I second the recommendation on Degrassi; I am hopelessly addicted to the show despite being far past the teenage years myself, and I think they've done a great job with Adam's character (the ftm character). If only it were easier to view in the U.S.

Degrassi comes on the teennick or N channel on cable in the U.S.

I've only seen a transgender in a hospital/medical drama series. Not sure which one it was, but it was quite realistic.
On another note, here is a subbed dutch interview with two transgender guys.

It's so annoying how testosterone is depicted as some sort of psychoactive drug that turns you into a raging incredible Hulk. If that is so then why isn't every single cis male and pre HRT trans woman overly aggressive then?

Also regarding post op chests being butchered- I notice lots of people also seem to think that post op vaginas are butchered too, and if not butchered, at least in some way inferior to cis vaginas. For example, in Nip/Tuck, one of the doctors was able to tell that a woman was trans because her vagina wasn't as deep as most, which is inaccurate- vaginas vary in depth among both cis and trans women, and not even a gynecologist can tell the difference between a cis and trans vagina.

I guess I could say that I lived "stealth". In regards to college, employer, neighbors, some doctors, and such. That changed for me about four months back. My employer found out about my change of name 3 years ago when our livescans (background checks) were brought up with an annual audit with the state and my name was incorrectly stated. She saw the different obviously female name with my last name and put two and two together. She sat me down and told me that she doesnt think any different of me, people can be who they want, blah blah. And after that would say stuff like she felt "girl energy" when I first interviewed, and would comment on things as if she was a new expert based on her viewing of the Chaz Bono show she watched.

I stopped working there about a month ago. I'd like to say it had nothing to do with being outed by licensing. And even though I stopped working for other reasons too, I would be lying to say it had no relation.

What bothered me the most was the lack of control over the situation. It came out of nowhere, I was unprepared, and had no choice about my private information being shared.

At the same time I feel guilty. Guilty for feeling ashamed of being who I am - a transsexual.

I live in a largish city with a sizeable trans community that has regular meetings. I went to them a couple times in the beginning for friendship but didn't personally mesh with people, so never went back or get involved.

It's sh***y, but I'm one of those people. The ones who hide in the dark and want to be stealth, all the while damning media presentations and peoples ignorance and discrimination. bleah, yeah.

Quote from: Darrin on July 19, 2011, 07:14:18 PM

Degrassi comes on the teennick or N channel on cable in the U.S.

I've been addicted to this show even before I was a teen, but I really love it now that Adam is on it (since summer of 2010, the boiling point). The new season (Now or never) started yesterday. Anyway, in the U.S (EST) it's on at 9:00-9:30pm on TeenNick, channel 124 on Optimum and Channel 255 on FiOS
As for his plot this season, all I've read is that him and Dave rival because Dave disses Adam for being ftm.
Random Degrassi info?
Yea buddy

I think Adam on Degrassi was one of the better written trans characters. The L Word always pissed me off. They go so many things wrong, it's no even funny. That sh-t about the lobsters? False. The timeline between Maxx going on T (illegally which is very hard to find IMO) and when he became pregnant doesn't line up in my head. I mean...how likely is it that a person will get pregnant after taking T for about a year, maybe more and is continuing their shot? Just...the stuff going on didn't seem to line up in my head.

I also saw the Chaz Bono documentary and was very disappointed. I didn't feel like any of the people involved were like-able. I think it was a bad and inaccurate portrayal of what happens on T. Also, Chaz was horribly misogynistic which pissed me off so much.

Boys Don't Cry is one of those movies most if not all trans people see and end up sobbing the whole time. I was supposed to watch it as part of training or a discussion when I worked at an LGBT youth center. I ended up telling whoever was in charge "I cannot watch this." I was allowed to opt out because it puts me in such a bad head space.

Oh, there was also Transgeneration! I loved TJ. Love him to bits! I had some problems understanding Lucas, and there's probably a lot of people out there that relate to him but he just didn't do it for me. Got under my skin, that whole bit.

Quote from: DevinJW on July 19, 2011, 01:51:03 AM
I was discussing this with my friend and we were talking about how, when it comes to support, we lose some of... ugh. I'm not some kind of 'omg Trans community YEAH' fundie or something, so please don't get that impression from this post- we lose some of our 'own' after transition- those who become 'stealth. Obviously, that is a personal choice, and I understand it so don't let it seem like I am insulting anyone who is stealth. Plus the boundary is a bit fuzzy there, what I mean is someone who just cuts off from the 'community' and disassociates themselves with anything to do with it in order to just live a normal cis lifestyle. I am happy for them, but in turn it means we lose support and knowledge and all sorts of things that people pre everything need, and what the transsexual ''image'' needs- that of ''well adjusted'' individuals coming out the other side with their success stories. What I am saying is, it doesn't help that a big portion of transsexuals disappear once it's all over for them, if yout get what I mean. I don't begrudge anyone who has done that (in most cases; I don't personally know anyone who has) but it doesn't help.

We need to come together and fight for this one.

i have a really different opinion on this. i'm just a normal 18 year old straight guy who's been waiting 18 years to be viewed as such. all i want is a normal peaceful life to live as i am and i don't think that i owe anything to anybody. i'm not, to quote many ill-informed people, "a transgender". i'm just a guy..

Quote from: RyGuy on July 20, 2011, 12:34:10 PM
i have a really different opinion on this. i'm just a normal 18 year old straight guy who's been waiting 18 years to be viewed as such. all i want is a normal peaceful life to live as i am and i don't think that i owe anything to anybody. i'm not, to quote many ill-informed people, "a transgender". i'm just a guy..

i might piss a lot of people off by saying this, but if you want to be REALLY out as a trans person, then in my opinion transitioning doesn't make as much sense. obviously before everyone jumps down my throat i do know what it's like to hate your own body, your own chromosomes, every feature you have, people using the wrong pronouns, interacting with you in a way that isn't consistent with your gender identity. i just don't know though. it's called FtM- female to male, not FtT- female to transsexual. it has nothing at all to do with me being a coward and not wanting to be "out" for fear of being made fun of or judged. i don't give a flying fig if people make fun of me for any reason. it just comes down to the fact that i am a normal male. my body has absolutely nothing to do with my gender identity which for all intents and purposes is stereotypically male. what i have to do or work on with my appearance has no bearing on me being me, and i despise being acknowledged as trans before i am acknowledged as a male.

i am ready and willing to give help and support to anyone who asks and am grateful that much is offered to me in return. i just see it as helping out some fellow guys with similar problems.

Different people transition for different reasons. I know some gender queer people that partly transition with hormones and a name change, some have surgery too. Their reasons aren't more or less valid.

Quote from: Nygeel on July 20, 2011, 01:03:14 PM
Different people transition for different reasons. I know some gender queer people that partly transition with hormones and a name change, some have surgery too. Their reasons aren't more or less valid.

This.

One thing that DOES bother me about the trans community is there seems to be this unwritten rule that if you don't fully transition, you are not "fully trans". Which, to me, is utterly ridiculous. To me, transitioning is about being comfortable with WHO YOU ARE. Not how "trans" you are. Not everyone experiences dysphoria the same way. So, not everyone needs to go "all the way". Everyone is different and no less valid because of how they choose to identify.


[/end rant]

Quote from: RyGuy on July 20, 2011, 12:46:57 PM
i might piss a lot of people off by saying this, but if you want to be REALLY out as a trans person, then in my opinion transitioning doesn't make as much sense. obviously before everyone jumps down my throat i do know what it's like to hate your own body, your own chromosomes, every feature you have, people using the wrong pronouns, interacting with you in a way that isn't consistent with your gender identity. i just don't know though. it's called FtM- female to male, not FtT- female to transsexual. it has nothing at all to do with me being a coward and not wanting to be "out" for fear of being made fun of or judged. i don't give a flying fig if people make fun of me for any reason. it just comes down to the fact that i am a normal male. my body has absolutely nothing to do with my gender identity which for all intents and purposes is stereotypically male. what i have to do or work on with my appearance has no bearing on me being me, and i despise being acknowledged as trans before i am acknowledged as a male.

i am ready and willing to give help and support to anyone who asks and am grateful that much is offered to me in return. i just see it as helping out some fellow guys with similar problems.

I don't understand your point of female to transdition, because your out? it dosen't really make sence and im not sure how your refering this?

for me im out as trans, and trandition. I wont refern myself female..
the people im around usunally know im trans,
mostly because it more easy to be honest with them, when they know and it cause less misunderstandings.
they know im a guy, they just also know I where born alittle diffrent, but it not a big deal.

I also been out in the media.
for 3 weeks ago I been together with some other trans people, showing young transgender tennegers for the first time in my country.
it been on newspapers, tv, and stuff, over the whole country being open about personally things.
the reason for me doing this wasnt to show myself, specially because I might lose my famely for it even more than if I didnt,
it where to help others, taking up some topics who been ignored so long because no one knew about them and no transgender people dare to be openly about it.

I feel alittle disapointed because some transpeople are openly mainly to fight the ignorance so most trans people can have better life,
and you put them on for less "trans" I cant stop felling, sad on that opinion.
---
Darring; it really should be a fight as long your happy, but boys will be boys,
if your cant brag about the size of your penis you must find something ells,
yeah it ridiculous..

Quote from: Darrin on July 20, 2011, 01:14:06 PM
One thing that DOES bother me about the trans community is there seems to be this unwritten rule that if you don't fully transition, you are not "fully trans".

i had my suspicions that this might be the case, so i never even sought out any trans community. was terrified that i'd be rejected because i'm not typically male or female. luckily i found the androgyne section here by chance, or i might have continued to struggle alone for years

if possible i'd transition into something which is neither or both male and/or female and live stealth as that. unfortunately society only recognized two genders, so even if i transition into the gender i am (or whatever comes closest to it), just by doing or looking like that i out myself as trans. it's some kind of paradox where i have to choose between stealth as something i am not, or being openly transgendered and hope i'll be accepted as my own gender. there are other possibilities which only deal with clothing, but i'm not sure that will be enough for me to feel good in my own skin

Quote from: Natkat on July 20, 2011, 02:16:17 PMDarring; it really should be a fight as long your happy, but boys will be boys,
if your cant brag about the size of your penis you must find something ells,
yeah it ridiculous..

Wait, what? I'm not quite sure what you mean.

Quote from: Darrin on July 20, 2011, 03:51:24 PM
Wait, what? I'm not quite sure what you mean.

I just say guys like to compare each other.
and as I see for many trans guy there comparings in maculinety as well.
somethimes it feels like a compedition for who looks most maculine, and who is most manly
----
TAKA: well.. for me it depends allittle how mixed the comunety is, but yeah generally it often alittle transexual/->-bleeped-<- orientated, it also annoyes me since I feel more queer than male or female orientated.
some transexuals think there the only part who exist and other are not really there busniss/only putting them down, like some gay guys dosent like femenine gay people or queers, because they see themself as normal and the other are crazy and doing bad influence..

I dont know if this make sense..

@natkat: what you're writing makes sense. but one thing that i don't get is why we can't just accept each other as distinct personalities instead of having to apply all kinds of stereotypes to each other and criticizing the ones which whatever part of society preaches that we shouldn't see as equals

Quote from: Taka on July 20, 2011, 05:18:18 PM
@natkat: what you're writing makes sense. but one thing that i don't get is why we can't just accept each other as distinct personalities instead of having to apply all kinds of stereotypes to each other and criticizing the ones which whatever part of society preaches that we shouldn't see as equals

as I said before but in alittle more explenation
the only way I can think of is it as being 2 kind of people,
people who use "we are like anybody ells"
and people using "we are diffrent just accept it."

the first one aply to the sociaty as it generally is now with the box system,
that you have to be this or that, and your no diffrent from any other and follow this systems who already there.
the second one are more fluent, dosent really seam to wanting to fit in the same way or hide there ways,
I think the first part can see these people as bad influence,
as these dont want to seam "diffrent" while second category dosent want to fit in as the norm who dosent fit them. and I think the fights mainly starts here.
--
it kinda sad when people only can accept themself,
mostly the reason I head where "there bad influence" or "they got nothing to do with me"
I feel the first one is pretty rude, and the second one might be right, but GLBTA or Transcomunety, isnt 1
big group of simular people. its alot of diffrent people who got a commen opinion that there something about gender who dosent all fit the norm as it set up(a pride flag is also a rainbow symbol with alot of diffrent colours and that how these comunety works alot of diffrent colour conected in 1 sign).

I wish people could accept each other more, and not minding whatever gender or sexual orientation people had.