Quote from: Katia on February 21, 2007, 01:11:16 AM
  i'm afraid i don't agree.  if a "transexual" [doesn't transition], it's because they [don't] suffer from [gender dysphoria]; consequently they're [not] transexual.

Not necessarily.

I DO agree that as time marches on, the I WON'T reasons ("I'm too tall, I don't want to ruin my marriage, everyone will laugh at me, what will the neighbors think? I'll lose my job...) are consumed by the GID one by one. They WILL fall, it just takes time.

But there are valid I CAN'T reasons which can delay things, such as medical and financial concerns. A TS is going to constantly be looking for ways to work through these roadblocks, but still... they do cause delays.

I'm only harping on all this because I want those of you who ARE stuck in I WON'T reasoning to seriously, honestly sit down and examine what you mean. Are you just buying time? TELL me you're not desperately trying to find a way to justify doing what you feel you must do... that everytime you post "I won't transition because..." you're really just praying someone will tell you why you CAN anyway?

Do what you feel is best for you, but don't make my mistake and pretend that I WON'T when you really mean NOT YET, NOT UNTIL I CAN JUSTIFY THIS TO MYSELF for decades, dragging yourself and a wife through your denial (not of what you are, but what you're going to DO).

Ask yourself: can you really, truly give up on transitioing? I mean make a pledge to God, you're going to burn in hell if you lie, swear to him I WILL NEVER TRANSITION.

If not, odds are you WILL. And if so, what more validation do you need?

Kate

Quote from: Katia on February 21, 2007, 01:11:16 AM
  i'm afraid i don't agree.  if a "transexual" [doesn't transition], it's because they [don't] suffer from [gender dysphoria]; consequently they're [not] transexual.

I would say I agree with the overall concept, but not the wording.  I would say they do suffer from Gender Dysphoria, but it's just not intense enough to qualify them as a transsexual because by definition, a transsexual will be so uncomfortable in their birth gender they will effectively need to transition.  I think there are people on here that suffer with *some* degree of gender dysphoria, but it's not strong enough where transisioning becomes the only viable option and they are able to list reasons as to why they can't.  Perhaps with age (since it does get worse), it will intensify enough to qualify them as TS.

Melissa

Elizabeth, I have experienced this hyper critical attitude from other TSs.  "You're not a TS unless..." and you have to then satisfy what THEY think makes one TS.  It's a shame we can't just support each other. 

And you make some very excellent points.  I've asked many times why anyone can go and have elective surgeries of all kinds without psychological evaluation and approval.  I know the reason we have to do it, because it's not socially acceptable.  It doesn't matter that the mental and medical communities haven't seen that GRS is almost 100% effective in curing gender dysphoria.  It still isn't socially acceptable and that's a wall that won't come down easily.  I know common sense doesn't work.  I've tried it.

Your statement about what you will do to get what you need from the medical community reflects my belief.  I have been vary careful not to show any signs of transitioning not being 100% right for me.  I've heard stories of others who find themselves begging for the HRT letter or the GRS letter and therapists telling them "I don't feel you're ready" even when the patient has talked suicide.  So when I talk to my doctor and especially to my therapist, I make sure they know only the happiest of times I experience living full time.  Deep inside I know this is right and that's all that matters.  Very shortly I'll be setting up an appointment with my therapist to discuss the GRS letter and I don't want any problems getting it.

taru, one thing you might add to your list is some of us CAN'T have the surgeries or go on HRT because it's too risky, given our medical condition.  If you have a family history of blood clotting you won't find a reputable doctor who will prescribe hormones for you.

Kate, by your definition I've never been in denial.  Deep inside I've always wanted to be a girl/woman.  But I believed I couldn't choose to transition because I'd hurt my family and friends.  I also thought I could never pass and that I'd be an outcast if I transitioned. 

However when I thought about being female it just seemed so right.  I longed for something to happen, something which was out of my control, something that would MAKE me have to transition.  I would have no choice.  That way no one would fault me for making the decision.  Of course, that was a silly daydream.

Denial for me was necessary because I didn't have the courage to lose everything.  I couldn't stand alone and say to the world, "This is me!  Take it or leave it!"  I was frozen with fear every time I thought about transitioning.  But more than anything in the world I wanted to be a woman.  Every night when I went to bed I thought about different scenarios that would all end up be becoming female.  This occupied all my idle hours and distracted me constantly from doing every day things.  I could have accomplished so much more in this life if I had just been able to transition earlier.  I didn't then but I am now and that's all that matters. 

I used denial to help me through life.  If I allowed myself to be, me I knew I would never want to go back and would live my life as a woman.  Then I'd be abandoned by everyone I knew and be branded a freak, pervert, sicko, whatever.  I wasn't in touch with the personal strength it would have taken to live as a woman in a time when it was almost unheard of.  After I got married and had kids I felt I had an obligation to raise them the best I could.  As soon as the youngest went off to college I began my transition.  It was if I was planning this all along.  Maybe I was.

This thread has gone in a very serious direction, obviously because a lot of us have very serious issues with the whole validation thing.  When I posted my pic with Cindi's stamp I wasn't trying to make light of things.  What I was saying is Cindi is right.  All you need is that stamp.  However you get it doesn't matter as long as it means you have been validated, you are at peace with who you are.  Cindi's simple "S T A M P" spoke volumes to me (thank you Cindi).  At that point I knew the criticism and bad vibes I received from fellow TSs didn't mean a thing.  No matter what anyone says, I need to live the remainder of my life as a woman.  I don't need any other validation or anyone's approval.

Julie

Quote from: Elizabeth on February 20, 2007, 10:58:51 PM
Hey everyone,

Where are all the psuedo-transsexuals? There must be a lot of them since there is this ridiculous series of hoops we have to jump through to transition. Did you know that 1 in 200 gastric bypass patients will die from complications of the surgery? Yes, no psychological evalution is needed to have this surgery. In fact one can have virtually any kind of plastic, silocone, or saline implant one wants. In the nose, cheeks, chest, buttocks, breasts, hips, calves one can have implants or liposuction and one need not be psychologically evaluated. There are significant complications that arise and the results can be disfiguring and life threatening, yet no psychological test is needed to get these surgerys.

Actually there are not that many TS in this world if there were we would have more of an impact on the medical community.  To be honest I had the same notion that I would have to jump through hoops, but I didn't.  Yes I had to see a therapist but that was no big deal and it cost a few bucks, but then I'm worth it.  I had to get a letter for HRT, but whats the big deal, if a person is confident that they are TS then they should be confident that the therapists will see that too.

As far as the other forms of cosmetic surgery are concerned, most are reversible should mistakes be made, and Castro bypass is not in the same league as GRS.  Lets face it, it is hard for the general public to get their collective heads around the notion that, in their eye's, a man would want to have their genitals removed, likewise a female having their breasts removed.  What kind of wacko would want to do that.

Personally I'm probably one of those radical TS who see other TS moaning and crying the blues because things are not going their way, that they should be the ones who determines what they do, well I'm afraid that it doesn't work like that, there are far too few resources out there to be tied up by a few idiots who live under the misconception that they are a woman.  Many many times we read here that we all know what's best for us, and we should be the ones who determines our future and I agree in a perfect world that be great.  Cancer patients don't get to pick and choose their treatment schedule and the medical community determines who gets transplants etc. etc. etc.  There are rules out there that cover pretty well every facet of our lives and I know that the anarchists really resent that but in the end they protect us.

I think that we need to be a little realistic.  I can imagine what would happen to the system if we threw the rules out the window and said "Ya know something, why should we care, go out and get your hormones and determine for yourself how much to take,  then when your boobs are big enough just give the surgeons a call, give them a valid credit card and be done with it".  Yep that would work.

I would suggest that those out there who think as I once did that these hoops are a waste of our time and theirs, that they should start working with the medical community to get things changed.  It's not hard, get involved, be proactive, stop complaining, do something about it.  I did.

Steph

P.S.  My words are not directed at any one in particular should there be any concer.

Quote from: Steph on February 23, 2007, 08:27:13 AM
There are rules out there that cover pretty well every facet of our lives and I know that the anarchists really resent that but in the end they protect us.

To some extent, but I think the rules are mainly in place to protect the doctors and surgeons from lawsuits. They need that legal assurance of it being a "medical necessity" since the public thinks we're basically nuts otherwise.

The rules don't seem to be doing much to stop the deluded from getting what they want... at least I haven't noticed it on the forums I belong to. How often do you see posts of, "I asked for HRT but was told NO!"

Well... *aside* from me that is

Still though, the system is what it is. If you need to transition, sooner or later you have to swallow your pride and decide where your priorities are.

Kate

The outright denying is perhaps not so common, but at least the "lets do therapy for a year more and then maybe we will give HRT" is used. And the current system in some places pressures people into lying - which makes therapy counterproductive.

Quote from: Steph on February 23, 2007, 08:27:13 AM
I had to get a letter for HRT, but whats the big deal, if a person is confident that they are TS then they should be confident that the therapists will see that too.

That level of confidence requires faith in other people and esp when it comes to the medical community that is in pretty short supply.

Quote from: Steph on February 23, 2007, 08:27:13 AMPersonally I'm probably one of those radical TS who see other TS moaning and crying the blues because things are not going their way, that they should be the ones who determines what they do, well I'm afraid that it doesn't work like that, there are far too few resources out there to be tied up by a few idiots who live under the misconception that they are a woman.

While the process bugs me and the idea of going to see a therapist and being told nothings wrong go home seems all too real too me.(I'm glad you have faith in the medical community but I've known something was physically wrong gone to the doctor been told nothings wrong its just stress or your just dehydrated, they wouldn't look for a problem till i couldn't get out of bed.) Doctors do however have the right to say what assurances they need before performing a procedure.

What annoys the heck out of me is the way some long term members of this community don't consider you a woman until a therapist validates your claims. Ok we need validation from the medical community to receive treatment from the medical community. But we shouldn't need it to be called a woman or to receive acceptance as such from the TG community. I've never seen anyone call for GG's to go to therapy to confirm they they are female before they are accepted as women. But I have seen members here question someone calling themselves a woman without a diagnosis.

Quote from: Kate on February 23, 2007, 08:55:00 AM

Quote from: Steph on February 23, 2007, 08:27:13 AM
There are rules out there that cover pretty well every facet of our lives and I know that the anarchists really resent that but in the end they protect us.

To some extent, but I think the rules are mainly in place to protect the doctors and surgeons from lawsuits. They need that legal assurance of it being a "medical necessity" since the public thinks we're basically nuts otherwise.

Kate

You're right Kate.  Many of the rules are in place to protect the doctors and hospitals.  A friend who is a plastic surgeon has told me many times about the fear within the medical community regarding being sued.  When they make a mistake, they begin to sweat the consequences.  So they have to establish rules to minimize mistakes in order to protect them from the lawsuit crazed individuals and lawyers.  Lawyers advertise in hopes they will hit a button and make you think you may have case.  It didn't used to be that way.  The American Bar Association at one time forbade advertising.  When they started to allow it is when the frivolous lawsuits began and the medical community began to establish rules to protect themselves.  (I'm not against lawyers.  My father, grandfather and great grandfather were all attorneys at law.)

Another obstacle the medical community had to overcome was operating on a healthy patient.  When you consider only the physical health of the patient, this is against the Hippocratic Oath.  They need to know that the overall well being, physical as well as mental, will improve in order to justify operating on a healthy patient.  I know most plastic surgeons no longer worry about that part of their oath but at one time they all did.  The SOC gave them justification to perform GRS.  And I'm sure for some allowed them to overcome their own phobias about removing the genitals of a man who is healthy.  A lot of these rules stem from personal objections.

However, it does seem suspect that FFS requires no therapy, no psychological evaluation and/or no documentation verifying an individual needs this elective surgery.  I'm sure that is in part, if not all, because society thinks it's insane to want healthy genitals or breasts removed.  If you want to change your face, okay.  But the other things?  We need to have something in writing because only a certifiable nut would want that done!  And yet FFS will change how society reacts to you far more than GRS.  Unless you live in a nudist colony.  So it's pretty clear what the motivation for psychological evaluation is for those wanting GRS.

I still believe that sane adults who want elective surgery performed on them should be able to have it, so long as they can pay for it, without psychological evaluation. (I know, how do you know they are sane?)   I don't believe in laws that are in place affecting all for the protection of a few.  If a small percentage of drivers just kept getting in accidents I wouldn't want them to outlaw cars.  But I also believe that if one wants or expects insurance to cover "elective" surgeries, psychological evaluation should be required.

Julie

Quote from: Steph on February 23, 2007, 08:27:13 AM

Quote from: Elizabeth on February 20, 2007, 10:58:51 PM
Hey everyone,

Where are all the psuedo-transsexuals? There must be a lot of them since there is this ridiculous series of hoops we have to jump through to transition. Did you know that 1 in 200 gastric bypass patients will die from complications of the surgery? Yes, no psychological evalution is needed to have this surgery. In fact one can have virtually any kind of plastic, silocone, or saline implant one wants. In the nose, cheeks, chest, buttocks, breasts, hips, calves one can have implants or liposuction and one need not be psychologically evaluated. There are significant complications that arise and the results can be disfiguring and life threatening, yet no psychological test is needed to get these surgerys.

Personally I'm probably one of those radical TS who see other TS moaning and crying the blues because things are not going their way, that they should be the ones who determines what they do, well I'm afraid that it doesn't work like that, there are far too few resources out there to be tied up by a few idiots who live under the misconception that they are a woman.  Many many times we read here that we all know what's best for us, and we should be the ones who determines our future and I agree in a perfect world that be great.  Cancer patients don't get to pick and choose their treatment schedule and the medical community determines who gets transplants etc. etc. etc.  There are rules out there that cover pretty well every facet of our lives and I know that the anarchists really resent that but in the end they protect us.

I think that we need to be a little realistic.  I can imagine what would happen to the system if we threw the rules out the window and said "Ya know something, why should we care, go out and get your hormones and determine for yourself how much to take,  then when your boobs are big enough just give the surgeons a call, give them a valid credit card and be done with it".  Yep that would work.

I would suggest that those out there who think as I once did that these hoops are a waste of our time and theirs, that they should start working with the medical community to get things changed.  It's not hard, get involved, be proactive, stop complaining, do something about it.  I did.

Steph

P.S.  My words are not directed at any one in particular should there be any concer.

(bold 1)

I am aware of abuses and petty ego games perpetrated by psychiatric and medical 'professionals' upon sisters and brothers, thereby inducing unnecessary stress and anguish in them, while they were trying to fight their way through the protocols.

These served to reinforce my contempt for the same, insofar as my own case is concerned.

(bold 2)

Moaning and groaning and dying.

I wonder how many of these ultimately suicided, because their GID was of such intensity where they gave up trying to "play by the rules" and just ended it all, to end their pain and agony-?

Just a rhetorical question.

(bold 3)

I never countenanced the discarding of HBIGDA/SOC, nor universal inapplicability of the same, nor would I favor the abandonment of these protocols.

That would be foolish and untenable. It's a safe and regulated pathway to completion.

But as applicable to ME, I repudiate these. They do not apply to me, nor is the proscribed transitional sequence even possible for me to comply with, given my employment situation and characteristics of my GID.

I am essentially controlling my own transition, not by desire, but of NECESSITY. I have no choice.

And as I stated elsewhere, 40 years of suffering and agony inflicted by intense GID, gives me the RIGHT to execute my own transitional sequencing and event flow.

I KNOW what I NEED and want and I have paid my dues, SEVERAL times over.

no one is going to give you a "sex change" a therapist-patient relationship when dealing with GID HAS to be two way, if the therapist essentially sees someone who acts like a man talks like a man moves like a man and is a man they're not just going to hand hormones over because they say they feel like a woman in an instant, it's entirely warrented for them to want to get to know a patient for a while first.

I mean heck, I'm only going to see my current doc three more times before she gives me my SRS letter and sends me off for the second one and I've only seen her once before and I was already FT, my two other therapists knew me as male, one for a long time and one for a short time, with both I essentially walked them through my life, my experiences and how I feel about it and unless you're obviously lying they'll have no reason to contest you unless their concern is valid.

You cannot expect someone to accept you're a woman just because you say so.

In my experience over the past year and a half, I have yet to see somebody go to a therapist and be turned away to go home.  The 2 routes I've seen is they are either given the green light or they discover they have far more exploration to do about themselves before taking action and end up realizing that themselves that they may not be TS.  However, I have yet to see somebody who is genuinely TS being told they are delusional by a therapist.

Melissa

Quote from: Mawd on February 25, 2007, 08:36:07 AM
if the therapist essentially sees someone who acts like a man talks like a man moves like a man and is a man they're not just going to hand hormones over because they say they feel like a woman in an instant...

Maybe not in an instant, but it should be noted that passability, dressing enfemme, and acting feminine are not requirements for an HRT letter or a GID diagnosis.

Lucky for me

My therapist withheld my HRT letter for months, but only because she felt I had not fully accepted or committed to the consequences of the journey I was about to embark on.

Kate

Quote from: Kate on February 25, 2007, 10:28:48 AM

Quote from: Mawd on February 25, 2007, 08:36:07 AM
if the therapist essentially sees someone who acts like a man talks like a man moves like a man and is a man they're not just going to hand hormones over because they say they feel like a woman in an instant...

Maybe not in an instant, but it should be noted that passability, dressing enfemme, and acting feminine are not requirements for an HRT letter or a GID diagnosis.

Lucky for me

My therapist withheld my HRT letter for months, but only because she felt I had not fully accepted or committed to the consequences of the journey I was about to embark on.

Kate

....and also, well, if someone was born male, was raised as a male, socialized his entire life as a man, etc, etc, etc,  it is "very normal" that that person looks, talks, dresses, behaves, laughs, walks as a man, isn't it?   I agree that in some instances the patient may sound or behave a bit feminine, but not to the point of being confused for a woman, not on the first day of therapy at least.

tinkerbell

Quote from: rhonda13000 on February 23, 2007, 09:18:16 PM

Quote from: Steph on February 23, 2007, 08:27:13 AM

Quote from: Elizabeth on February 20, 2007, 10:58:51 PM
Hey everyone,

Where are all the psuedo-transsexuals? There must be a lot of them since there is this ridiculous series of hoops we have to jump through to transition. Did you know that 1 in 200 gastric bypass patients will die from complications of the surgery? Yes, no psychological evalution is needed to have this surgery. In fact one can have virtually any kind of plastic, silocone, or saline implant one wants. In the nose, cheeks, chest, buttocks, breasts, hips, calves one can have implants or liposuction and one need not be psychologically evaluated. There are significant complications that arise and the results can be disfiguring and life threatening, yet no psychological test is needed to get these surgerys.

Personally I'm probably one of those radical TS who see other TS moaning and crying the blues because things are not going their way, that they should be the ones who determines what they do, well I'm afraid that it doesn't work like that, there are far too few resources out there to be tied up by a few idiots who live under the misconception that they are a woman.  Many many times we read here that we all know what's best for us, and we should be the ones who determines our future and I agree in a perfect world that be great.  Cancer patients don't get to pick and choose their treatment schedule and the medical community determines who gets transplants etc. etc. etc.  There are rules out there that cover pretty well every facet of our lives and I know that the anarchists really resent that but in the end they protect us.

I think that we need to be a little realistic.  I can imagine what would happen to the system if we threw the rules out the window and said "Ya know something, why should we care, go out and get your hormones and determine for yourself how much to take,  then when your boobs are big enough just give the surgeons a call, give them a valid credit card and be done with it".  Yep that would work.

I would suggest that those out there who think as I once did that these hoops are a waste of our time and theirs, that they should start working with the medical community to get things changed.  It's not hard, get involved, be proactive, stop complaining, do something about it.  I did.

Steph

P.S.  My words are not directed at any one in particular should there be any concer.

(bold 1)

I am aware of abuses and petty ego games perpetrated by psychiatric and medical 'professionals' upon sisters and brothers, thereby inducing unnecessary stress and anguish in them, while they were trying to fight their way through the protocols.

These served to reinforce my contempt for the same, insofar as my own case is concerned.

(bold 2)

Moaning and groaning and dying.

I wonder how many of these ultimately suicided, because their GID was of such intensity where they gave up trying to "play by the rules" and just ended it all, to end their pain and agony-?

Just a rhetorical question.

You make it sound as though the rules are insurmountable.  If this little girl can do it then anyone should be able to.  What are you scared of?  Perhaps that someone will tell you that you're not TS. What's the big deal with being TS, it seems as though you have convinced yourself that you are, and are afraid of someone telling you different.

Quote(bold 3)

I never countenanced the discarding of HBIGDA/SOC, nor universal inapplicability of the same, nor would I favor the abandonment of these protocols.

That would be foolish and untenable. It's a safe and regulated pathway to completion.

But as applicable to ME, I repudiate these. They do not apply to me, nor is the proscribed transitional sequence even possible for me to comply with, given my employment situation and characteristics of my GID.

I am essentially controlling my own transition, not by desire, but of NECESSITY. I have no choice.

And as I stated elsewhere, 40 years of suffering and agony inflicted by intense GID, gives me the RIGHT to execute my own transitional sequencing and event flow.

I KNOW what I NEED and want and I have paid my dues, SEVERAL times over.

[/color][/font][/size][/i]

You are not unique in these thoughts, I too have paid my dues several times over, in fact I still pay my dues, I too knew what was best for me, I too thought that the process was nothing short of quackery, but here I am, within two years of deciding what was best for me I went through the "system", and you know something it was easy as pie (the process that is, consequences are a different story), it's the $ value that hurt, but as I have said before, I'm worth it.  I now have peace of mind, freedoms, and happiness to live the ramainder of my life as it should have been.

You can beat yourself up, and scream bloody murder, but short of breaking the law you're going to have to go though the system hon.

Steph

Quote from: Steph on February 23, 2007, 08:27:13 AM
Personally I'm probably one of those radical TS who see other TS moaning and crying the blues because things are not going their way, that they should be the ones who determines what they do, well I'm afraid that it doesn't work like that, there are far too few resources out there to be tied up by a few idiots who live under the misconception that they are a woman.

Quoted for truth.

There's a system and path there for a reason; if you fit the bill, you'll find it straightforward. People who think they're somehow exceptional — thinking the rules don't apply to them — and wanting to take shortcuts are misguided. Like others here, I once also thought those rules didn't apply to me, but now at the other end, I see the value of the discipline and structure they impose, as well as the essential objectivity bought by therapy.

Timely comment too, personally speaking. I was in a session with my psychiatrist the other day, talking about whether I should be discharged for good from the clinic, and I mentioned that I was considering some FFS procedures, doing my research, saving up, planning things out...

And he said something along the lines of:

"This is why we (meaning the clinical team at the GIC) have been pleased with you, you've taken your time, socialised yourself, stabilised yourself, postponed surgery twice to fit it in around your career, haven't rushed into anything. The people we worry about are the ones who say they need everything now."

Quote from: Melissa on February 25, 2007, 10:11:15 AM
In my experience over the past year and a half, I have yet to see somebody go to a therapist and be turned away to go home.  The 2 routes I've seen is they are either given the green light or they discover they have far more exploration to do about themselves before taking action and end up realizing that themselves that they may not be TS.  However, I have yet to see somebody who is genuinely TS being told they are delusional by a therapist.

Melissa

Being 'turned away' by a therapist is not a concern, nor a factor.

Quote from: Steph on February 25, 2007, 04:22:49 PM

Quote from: rhonda13000 on February 23, 2007, 09:18:16 PM

Quote from: Steph on February 23, 2007, 08:27:13 AM

Quote from: Elizabeth on February 20, 2007, 10:58:51 PM
Hey everyone,

Where are all the psuedo-transsexuals? There must be a lot of them since there is this ridiculous series of hoops we have to jump through to transition. Did you know that 1 in 200 gastric bypass patients will die from complications of the surgery? Yes, no psychological evalution is needed to have this surgery. In fact one can have virtually any kind of plastic, silocone, or saline implant one wants. In the nose, cheeks, chest, buttocks, breasts, hips, calves one can have implants or liposuction and one need not be psychologically evaluated. There are significant complications that arise and the results can be disfiguring and life threatening, yet no psychological test is needed to get these surgerys.

Personally I'm probably one of those radical TS who see other TS moaning and crying the blues because things are not going their way, that they should be the ones who determines what they do, well I'm afraid that it doesn't work like that, there are far too few resources out there to be tied up by a few idiots who live under the misconception that they are a woman.  Many many times we read here that we all know what's best for us, and we should be the ones who determines our future and I agree in a perfect world that be great.  Cancer patients don't get to pick and choose their treatment schedule and the medical community determines who gets transplants etc. etc. etc.  There are rules out there that cover pretty well every facet of our lives and I know that the anarchists really resent that but in the end they protect us.

I think that we need to be a little realistic.  I can imagine what would happen to the system if we threw the rules out the window and said "Ya know something, why should we care, go out and get your hormones and determine for yourself how much to take,  then when your boobs are big enough just give the surgeons a call, give them a valid credit card and be done with it".  Yep that would work.

I would suggest that those out there who think as I once did that these hoops are a waste of our time and theirs, that they should start working with the medical community to get things changed.  It's not hard, get involved, be proactive, stop complaining, do something about it.  I did.

Steph

P.S.  My words are not directed at any one in particular should there be any concer.

(bold 1)

I am aware of abuses and petty ego games perpetrated by psychiatric and medical 'professionals' upon sisters and brothers, thereby inducing unnecessary stress and anguish in them, while they were trying to fight their way through the protocols.

These served to reinforce my contempt for the same, insofar as my own case is concerned.

(bold 2)

Moaning and groaning and dying.

I wonder how many of these ultimately suicided, because their GID was of such intensity where they gave up trying to "play by the rules" and just ended it all, to end their pain and agony-?

Just a rhetorical question.

You make it sound as though the rules are insurmountable.  If this little girl can do it then anyone should be able to.  What are you scared of?  Perhaps that someone will tell you that you're not TS. What's the big deal with being TS, it seems as though you have convinced yourself that you are, and are afraid of someone telling you different.

Quote(bold 3)

I never countenanced the discarding of HBIGDA/SOC, nor universal inapplicability of the same, nor would I favor the abandonment of these protocols.

That would be foolish and untenable. It's a safe and regulated pathway to completion.

But as applicable to ME, I repudiate these. They do not apply to me, nor is the proscribed transitional sequence even possible for me to comply with, given my employment situation and characteristics of my GID.

I am essentially controlling my own transition, not by desire, but of NECESSITY. I have no choice.

And as I stated elsewhere, 40 years of suffering and agony inflicted by intense GID, gives me the RIGHT to execute my own transitional sequencing and event flow.

I KNOW what I NEED and want and I have paid my dues, SEVERAL times over.

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You are not unique in these thoughts, I too have paid my dues several times over, in fact I still pay my dues, I too knew what was best for me, I too thought that the process was nothing short of quackery, but here I am, within two years of deciding what was best for me I went through the "system", and you know something it was easy as pie (the process that is, consequences are a different story), it's the $ value that hurt, but as I have said before, I'm worth it.  I now have peace of mind, freedoms, and happiness to live the ramainder of my life as it should have been.


You can beat yourself up, and scream bloody murder, but short of breaking the law you're going to have to go though the system hon.

Steph

(bold 1)

Insurmountable?

I conveyed no such sentiment, nor was it my intention to.

How do you know that I am 'scared of' something?

I neither conveyed fear. I hardly need an 'objective' external certification to validate my GID.

Oh no, dear; no fear exists.

"It seems as though..."

It's worth noting that what seems to be the case in a given situation, is not necessarily concordant with what constitutes that which is extant.

(bold 2)

I did make it manifest that the sequencing dictated by HBIGDA was impossible for me to comply with, for several reasons.

It is also a financial impossibility to process through that 'transitional syllabus.

(bold 3)

That is untrue. So far, I have not and have had no problem starting HRT very early in my transition, my HRT is now prescribed and I have been in therapy for 15 or so, months.

My body is feminizing much better than expected, for an 'old girl' and certain surgeries have been acquired for a mere fraction of what they normally would have cost me.

As for SRS, my sister? I will have no problem in acquiring is, when the time comes and without 'letters', as was the case with my HRT.

"No worries".

Quote from: rhonda13000 on February 23, 2007, 09:18:16 PM
I wonder how many of these ultimately suicided, because their GID was of such intensity where they gave up trying to "play by the rules" and just ended it all, to end their pain and agony-?

I came very, very close.

But then I decided that it was time to grow up and stop begging for permission, to accept *complete* responsibility for what I was doing and the consequences, and to never again look to someone else to tell me who I was, and where I needed to go.

The system is fine. The interpreters of that system... are sometimes another story.

Kate

Quote from: Stormy Weather on February 25, 2007, 04:59:59 PM

Quote from: Steph on February 23, 2007, 08:27:13 AM
Personally I'm probably one of those radical TS who see other TS moaning and crying the blues because things are not going their way, that they should be the ones who determines what they do, well I'm afraid that it doesn't work like that, there are far too few resources out there to be tied up by a few idiots who live under the misconception that they are a woman.

Quoted for truth.

There's a system and path there for a reason; if you fit the bill, you'll find it straightforward. People who think they're somehow exceptional — thinking the rules don't apply to them — and wanting to take shortcuts are misguided. Like others here, I once also thought those rules didn't apply to me, but now at the other end, I see the value of the discipline and structure they impose, as well as the essential objectivity bought by therapy.

Timely comment too, personally speaking. I was in a session with my psychiatrist the other day, talking about whether I should be discharged for good from the clinic, and I mentioned that I was considering some FFS procedures, doing my research, saving up, planning things out...

And he said something along the lines of:

"This is why we (meaning the clinical team at the GIC) have been pleased with you, you've taken your time, socialised yourself, stabilised yourself, postponed surgery twice to fit it in around your career, haven't rushed into anything. The people we worry about are the ones who say they need everything now."

(bold 1)

In ALL cases ALL of the time?

This is a universalization and as such, is rationally untenable.

You cannot possibly assert universally that anyone who 'does not follow the rules' is 'misguided'.

It's a universalization which cannot possibly proven to be true and it does injustice to those who by circumstance cannot 'follow the rules' and must transition, as a function of the level of their GID.

What is beneficial and suitable for you, is not such for everybody and every life situation that one may be existing in.

Quote from: Kate on February 25, 2007, 06:00:36 PM

Quote from: rhonda13000 on February 23, 2007, 09:18:16 PM
I wonder how many of these ultimately suicided, because their GID was of such intensity where they gave up trying to "play by the rules" and just ended it all, to end their pain and agony-?

I came very, very close.

But then I decided that it was time to grow up and stop begging for permission, to accept *complete* responsibility for what I was doing and the consequences, and to never again look to someone else to tell me who I was, and where I needed to go.

The system is fine. The interpreters of that system... are sometimes another story.

Kate

Again sweetie, I am in no way asserting that these protocols be scrapped--but not everybody can execute them, for one reason or another.

For me to adamantly desire the total abandonment of HBIGDA would be a manifestation of hate and rank selfishness.

Then I would be universalizing. I don't work that way.

Quote from: rhonda13000 on February 25, 2007, 06:15:33 PM
In ALL cases ALL of the time?

This is a universalization and as such, is rationally untenable.

You cannot possibly assert universally that anyone who 'does not follow the rules' is 'misguided'.

It's a universalization which cannot possibly proven to be true and it does injustice to those who by circumstance cannot 'follow the rules' and must transition, as a function of the level of their GID.

What is beneficial and suitable for you, is not such for everybody and every life situation that one may be existing in.

Say what you like, dress it up in language, attempt to rationalise it until the cows come home without taking protocol and procedure into account... that is what is untenable. I've walked the path, know the ropes, and speak from my and others' experience. I've seen others fall by the wayside due to their own lack of self-analysis, planning and realism. This is not something you can rationalise, anyway. However, I wish you luck on your journey, regardless of where it takes you.

Quote from: Stormy Weather on February 25, 2007, 06:27:02 PM

Quote from: rhonda13000 on February 25, 2007, 06:15:33 PM
In ALL cases ALL of the time?

This is a universalization and as such, is rationally untenable.

You cannot possibly assert universally that anyone who 'does not follow the rules' is 'misguided'.

It's a universalization which cannot possibly proven to be true and it does injustice to those who by circumstance cannot 'follow the rules' and must transition, as a function of the level of their GID.

What is beneficial and suitable for you, is not such for everybody and every life situation that one may be existing in.

Say what you like, dress it up in language, attempt to rationalise it until the cows come home without taking protocol and procedure into account... that is what is untenable. I've walked the path, know the ropes, and speak from my and others' experience. I've seen others fall by the wayside due to their own lack of self-analysis, planning and realism. This is not something you can rationalise, anyway. However, I wish you luck on your journey, regardless of where it takes you.

That constitutes a mere dismissal and as such, is a non-response.

I think that I'll go cook some chicken; my trackball is looking mighty tasty, right now.