Why would our sexuality operate differently than other people's?

No, I'm quite certain I was born this way. I knew I was gay - was ashamed and afraid to be gay - before I knew I was trans. And I assure you, it's not because of any 'air of mystery' that boys had. It's the girls I found inscrutable. Still do. But I don't find them attractive. Just incomprehensible.

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on August 03, 2011, 04:53:56 PM


?   Are early transitioners those who go through their actual teenage years as girls and being socialised as a girl more likely to be heterosexual?    Are we post teen transitioners who where never socialised as female more likely to be gay as a consequence?    You might argue that people are born heterosexual and homosexual and I believe that is true for genetic males and females who aren't transsexuals/transgendered.     I really don't know if this applies to us though.   

Not sure I would concur...I would not have described my socialization as having been that of a girl, although it was very much a gender-neutral background.  Despite that, I was lesbian-identified by the time I got to high school (this was the VERY early 80's) and had known I was 'different' since the 70's.  And in the 25-ish years that have passed since high school, no amount of HRT or surgery has ever prompted me to have any manner of sexual thought about guys...some people are just wired to be gold-stars 

Hmmm so what if we weren't born that way? So what if, indeed, one's teenage years affected their sexuality? I mostly stuck around with other girls in my teenage years and I like boys. However, correlation does not imply causation, so one cannot conclude at all that influenced me to like boys—in fact, they never asked me directly if I thought a guy was hot (though I never told them either I liked boys, despite having told them "just treat me like another girl"). On the other hand, guys never discussed girls with me either...

But actually, it would seem to me that trans people are considerably more likely to be homosexual, so I am somewhat hesitant to say that trans people's sexuality is the same as other people's in general. I feel there's definitely something different.

Quote from: apple pie on August 03, 2011, 06:10:46 PM
But actually, it would seem to me that trans people are considerably more likely to be homosexual, so I am somewhat hesitant to say that trans people's sexuality is the same as other people's in general. I feel there's definitely something different.

Just because the prevalence is different doesn't mean the mechanism has to be different. It could just be that the mechanism is the same, but the frequency of exposure to it is different. One of the working hypotheses for the origin of homosexuality is an exposure to cross-sex hormones/atypical hormone levels at a specific time in fetal development. Trans people have a known history of exposure to cross-sex hormones/atypical fetal hormone levels for our identified gender.

Quote from: kyril on August 03, 2011, 06:31:11 PM
Just because the prevalence is different doesn't mean the mechanism has to be different. It could just be that the mechanism is the same, but the frequency of exposure to it is different. One of the working hypotheses for the origin of homosexuality is an exposure to cross-sex hormones/atypical hormone levels at a specific time in fetal development. Trans people have a known history of exposure to cross-sex hormones/atypical fetal hormone levels for our identified gender.

Well stated!  I was definitely gay before transition, but I forced myself into doing everything heterosexual in hopes that my sexuality and gender problems would go away.  Yeah, that worked like a charm, didn't it?   Of course, now that I'm transitioning, I don't have to do any mental acrobatics anymore: I like guys, I'm a girl, therefore I really am straight.  Funny how that plays out.  Now I'm just desperate to be with a guy because it's virgin territory for me even though it was my lifelong natural urge.  So many years to catch up on!

Now as for being accepted more by girls than guys?  I've found that to be the case, as much as I didn't think it would be.  My family reunion last week was a prime example.  It was my first reunion since coming out and all the men avoided me, but the women embraced and spoke to me.

Quote from: kyril on August 03, 2011, 06:31:11 PM

Just because the prevalence is different doesn't mean the mechanism has to be different.

An excellent point! Well pointed out.

Though I am sort of thinking that even for non-transsexuals, perhaps their sexuality would also be influenced by their earlier life. So it might be the same for us too with the same mechanism.

Quote from: apple pie on August 03, 2011, 08:30:50 PM
An excellent point! Well pointed out.

Though I am sort of thinking that even for non-transsexuals, perhaps their sexuality would also be influenced by their earlier life. So it might be the same for us too with the same mechanism.

It's theoretically possible, but so far there's been absolutely no evidence found to support this idea. Despite the efforts of thousands of anti-gay groups, a number of psychology/child development professionals, and parents around the world, nobody has ever been able to reliably prevent children from growing up to be gay. They have ruined a lot of lives trying, though.

And then one of them might come here, read this and then somehow conclude that "members at a GLBT forum also support the notion that sexuality might be changed"

I just thought about it a little more; I think what I just said earlier isn't quite right. Instead of influencing the actual sexuality, it affects one's expressing of their sexuality instead. If you grew up somewhere where everyone you knew told you that homosexuality was wrong, you might suppress it (not express it) without even consciously knowing it and try to be heterosexual, because we all tend to do what everyone else does. You might get married, have children, and 30 years later supposing you still haven't come across the notion that homosexuality might be alright, the whole world, including your own self, would think you are heterosexual... That might seem to be a "success" in changing one's sexuality to some. (I have in mind sort of how genes are also selectively expressed depending on the physiological environment)

Oops a bit long winded dunno if it makes sense...

Going through transition, MtF (don't know about FtM of course) I started to notice men from a female perspective point of view. Sexy! (some of them, eh)

I grew up in post war Germany where you got about 4 years prison for being MALE homosexual, girls just didn't count --- maybe still don't?

Yet, my male perspective was formed from my boy-guise point of few. Though I never really was homophobic toward neither male or female, being female inside may have quite something to do with that being OK.

If I was confronted about being a homosexual in the closet it just did not connect, as little as it connects now.
I had a long term friendship with a homosexual male and gave that an "intimate try" -- it left me bored and so very clear it was not my cup of tea at all.

Yet, I can fantasize about having sex with a straight male IF IT INVOLVES MY NEO-VAGINA and me being bottom, mostly?

BTW the male gay friendship just ran out of interest on his side. Once I transitioned, he lost interest. A pity, but so it is and it can not be revived because I know having now lost my "male attraction".

In some folk's books that would now make me a trans-homosexual?
I'm too much of a girl to take that on board, and yet it only changed once I'd become more comfortable in being the female that I am (in my head).

Axelle

my theory on the increased prevalence of homosexuality, bisexuality, and pensexuality is that trans people are more likely to express their true sexuality because they are generally better in tune with matters of gender and sexuality in the first place. i think the percentage of people who are actually not heterosexual in the "real world" (referring to straight, cis, normative people) is a lot higher than the number of people who are acting upon their non-heterosexuality.

Quote from: RyanThomas on August 04, 2011, 01:33:13 PM
my theory on the increased prevalence of homosexuality, bisexuality, and pensexuality is that trans people are more likely to express their true sexuality because they are generally better in tune with matters of gender and sexuality in the first place. i think the percentage of people who are actually not heterosexual in the "real world" (referring to straight, cis, normative people) is a lot higher than the number of people who are acting upon their non-heterosexuality.

There also might be a lot of gay-identifying individuals who might have heterosexual tendencies but don't acknowledge it because society tends to only offer two choices.

Quote from: Sunnynight on August 04, 2011, 01:37:09 PM
There also might be a lot of gay-identifying individuals who might have heterosexual tendencies but don't acknowledge it because society tends to only offer two choices.

I've speculated for a long time that there are a lot more bisexual people than it would seem.

I don't know if it's still like this in the "gay community" (because I resigned a while back ) but when I was first coming out as "gay" (and still being attracted to women too) I had to be in stealth over liking girls, because the gay men I was around collectively assumed no-one liked girls and were quite dismissive of/threatened by anyone who did. To be honest, it sort of reminded me of being 10 . Of course, I now know gay men who are not like this. But I wonder how much it's a group thing, rather than what people individually believe?

I've worked many years with numbers.  At least 10% of population only is attracted to same gender.  Do you really think being attracted to both genders would be smaller than 10%?  Millennium ago Roman soldiers slept in pairs.  One solder put blanket on ground and other solder put blanket on top.  They snuggled together to keep warm and they really snuggled to generate heat.   It was rather accepted and many had wives.  Society dictates what they want us to believe.  Nature loves diversity and society does not.  Bisexuality is far greater than 10%.  Many males in college slept with males when a female was not available.  They told me they were not gay.  (I think that is openly bisexual.  What you think?)

Statistically half males that only like females like both genders or only opposite gender when they transition.   A lot more than 10% of population is bisexual.  It is difficult to hide being gay but it is not difficult to hide bisexuality.

"Millennium ago Roman soldiers slept in pairs.  One solder put blanket on ground and other solder put blanket on top.  They snuggled together to keep warm and they really snuggled to generate heat.   It was rather accepted and many had wives."

OK, if you're trying to impose modern homosexuality on the Romans, you're going to get a fight.  No ancient culture.  Let me repeat: No ancient culture knew anything like modern American homosexuality.  Did some know of same-sex sexual activity of various kinds?  Yes--but none knew of adult men who preferred the sex with other adult men and formed same sex partnerships or "marriages."  This was completely unknown until modern times.  What was practiced in Greece in Classical times was pederasty.  In Rome, pederasty was not tolerated.  There were various types of same sex sexual activity in several cultures, and some did know of transgender expressions, but this was in a cultural context that is completely foreign to what is occurring in America today.  That's not saying good, bad, or indifferent--but that is how it was.

Don't get me started on Sparta.

Quote from: Narela on August 03, 2011, 04:46:06 AM


Nop, this is the reality for all us , girls think that gay=trans trans=gay 

This is the reason I am against the union of transsexuals and homosexuals in the same motion (LGTB)

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,99819.0.html

That's not true.

The simple fact that every girl that knows me who knows I am trans does not label me as a gay man negates your assumption that all girls think that.

Quote from: Annah on August 08, 2011, 01:26:05 AM
That's not true.

The simple fact that every girl that knows me who knows I am trans does not label me as a gay man negates your assumption that all girls think that.

exactly

Quote from: Annah on August 08, 2011, 01:26:05 AM
That's not true.

The simple fact that every girl that knows me who knows I am trans does not label me as a gay man negates your assumption that all girls think that.

I'll second that!  All of my female friends see me as a straight woman, not a gay man (and yes, all of my female friends know about me because they all knew me before transition).  My ex-wife even made some comment to me a few weeks back that she'd offer to hook me up with this one guy, but that he was gay and gay men aren't into women.

I find it very difficult to tell guys. Usually girls think it's cute, and guys think it's weird. However my sister says she's all so excepting and supportive and whatever: calls me girl and such, but still calls me her brother. My sister in law hates it and so does my brother "because of their kids". Family can be the most stubborn and non-understanding of them all.

Quote from: mechakitty on August 02, 2011, 11:18:54 PM
Oh, just wait until you run into one of those "womyn born womyn" types that see you as a threat to all femininity.

Talk about an overreaction to the extreme.

I've had some online run ins with those types recently.

Started to converse with one... was quite respectful and everyone, simply asked if she was interested in dialog and to try to understand where both sides are coming from.

You would have thought I threatened to kill her or something... she went off on this lengthy tangent about male privilege and how I was anti woman and contributed to women being oppressed and all sorts of things.

Honestly it was almost like the lady was insane or something and read things that weren't even there in my comments.