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What's the point of T if...

Started by Dominick_81, August 04, 2011, 03:58:33 PM

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Dominick_81

Quote from: RyanThomas on August 04, 2011, 10:15:11 PM
I don't mean to make you upset but I think your height may be the deal breaker. until you absolutely definitely looked like an adult male, I would either assume you are female or a primary school aged boy. if your doctor says your t levels are fine, then I suppose you do just have to be patient.

It's okay. I was thinking that too. It sucks to be short.

Quote from: Elijah on August 04, 2011, 10:18:55 PM
not everyone develops so fast, six months isnt that long, some people take a few years to fully pass

A few years, really? That sucks. I feel like I'm 50 -50 on passing. But I get really frustrated when someone see's me as female.  I just ruins my whole day.
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Sharky

I would get them checked since its been so long since you have. I would also do it ASP. I agree that height is a deal breaker. I've seen a cis woman misgendered just because she was tall. They guy said that he just noticed they were tall and instantly thought guy and didn't even look at their face.
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Dominick_81

Quote from: Sharky on August 04, 2011, 11:39:22 PM
I would get them checked since its been so long since you have. I would also do it ASP. I agree that height is a deal breaker. I've seen a cis woman misgendered just because she was tall. They guy said that he just noticed they were tall and instantly thought guy and didn't even look at their face.

I can ask the nurse in 2 weeks when I get my shot if she can ask the doctor if I can get my T levels checked this month. How come asap?
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Sharky

It's ASAP because I would want to get the correct dose and the changes that go with it as soon as possible instead of wasting my time and money. This is your health. Don't ask, take charge. Demand and communicate. I would find no change unacceptable a month in. I don't know how much trans experience your doctor has, but it doesn't take much research to get an idea how fast the average FTM experiences changes and you are obviously not on track. . You need to communicate what's going on with your doctor. He needs to know if realistic expectations of your treatment aren't being met so he can adjust the approach.
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zombiesarepeaceful

Everybody passes...eventually. Some are more fortunate than others. Some sprout facial hair in a few months, others a few years. Same with every other change.
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Jigsaw

If you get your T levels checked make sure you do it between shots so you are not getting peaks and valleys.  That would be important for your test results.
"I've just lived my life. I always feel that if you live your life and you live it honestly and are good to people around you that everything will be OK." ~John Barrowman
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Dominick_81

Quote from: Sharky on August 05, 2011, 12:43:10 AM
It's ASAP because I would want to get the correct dose and the changes that go with it as soon as possible instead of wasting my time and money. This is your health. Don't ask, take charge. Demand and communicate. I would find no change unacceptable a month in. I don't know how much trans experience your doctor has, but it doesn't take much research to get an idea how fast the average FTM experiences changes and you are obviously not on track. . You need to communicate what's going on with your doctor. He needs to know if realistic expectations of your treatment aren't being met so he can adjust the approach.

ic. I'm kinda shy when it comes to speaking up. I'll probably just wait until my next shot and ask the nurse about it.

I do have some changes, like my voice and hair. My voice is not as deep as I want it, but people here are saying I still got time for it to get deeper.  It's hard to tell since I see myself all the time and people who don't see me all the time don't say anything so I'm not sure if they notice or not, and they don't know I'm trans either.  My counselor keeps telling me my is voice is getting deeper every time I see her and that's like once a month.  I get the peach fuzz on my face, so I've been shaving that off.  It's hard to tell if changes are coming. I look at pics to compare, but it's still hard for me to tell. I think maybe fat distribution has changed a little bit. But can't tell if it's weight gain or  fat distribution?

There's one guy on youtube, that looks exactly the same pre T and 1 year later on T.. The only thing I noticed about him was his voice was deeper. I think it's all about haircuts and hairstyle change too.

Quote from: Jigsaw on August 05, 2011, 03:40:07 PM
If you get your T levels checked make sure you do it between shots so you are not getting peaks and valleys.  That would be important for your test results.

Thanks. Like 2 or 3 days after the shot or a week? I get my shot every other week.
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Arch

I have a friend who says he took something like a year and a half. I think it's because he had other characteristics that people read as feminine. Even now, more than five years in, he has a lot of qualities in his speech and hand gestures that people tend to interpret as "feminine," so they read him as gay. He complains about it sometimes but doesn't make any effort to change his patterns. I figure that it isn't important enough to him; he is obviously male (the beard helps), so why bother?

I guess my point is that if you do have such characteristics and want a better chance of being read as male, you might think it's worth your while to change those features. Then again, maybe not. But if you do work on those features, don't be surprised if it turns out to be wasted effort six months from now. T alone can work wonders if you wait long enough.

But some guys need more than just T; another thing that can help is attitude and confidence level. T might be the cake, but attitude can be the icing. If people call you she and you get embarrassed and sink into yourself, or if you are unsure of yourself, people can often read that--and they will tend to read it as female more often than not. And if someone calls you she and you don't correct that person, most people (including bystanders) will go along with that. The self-confidence should come over time, but you can help it along, too, with some positive self-talk.

I know it's hard to hear--believe me, I wanted my changes to come as soon as possible--but you have to give it time. And sometimes the inner work is as important (or almost as important) as the outer work.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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Dominick_81

Quote from: Arch on August 05, 2011, 08:34:34 PM
I have a friend who says he took something like a year and a half. I think it's because he had other characteristics that people read as feminine. Even now, more than five years in, he has a lot of qualities in his speech and hand gestures that people tend to interpret as "feminine," so they read him as gay. He complains about it sometimes but doesn't make any effort to change his patterns. I figure that it isn't important enough to him; he is obviously male (the beard helps), so why bother?

I guess my point is that if you do have such characteristics and want a better chance of being read as male, you might think it's worth your while to change those features. Then again, maybe not. But if you do work on those features, don't be surprised if it turns out to be wasted effort six months from now. T alone can work wonders if you wait long enough.

But some guys need more than just T; another thing that can help is attitude and confidence level. T might be the cake, but attitude can be the icing. If people call you she and you get embarrassed and sink into yourself, or if you are unsure of yourself, people can often read that--and they will tend to read it as female more often than not. And if someone calls you she and you don't correct that person, most people (including bystanders) will go along with that. The self-confidence should come over time, but you can help it along, too, with some positive self-talk.

I know it's hard to hear--believe me, I wanted my changes to come as soon as possible--but you have to give it time. And sometimes the inner work is as important (or almost as important) as the outer work.

Yeah, facial hair will definitely make it easier for passing. I'm not girlie in anyway. So I don't think that's what gave me away. I'm thinking it was my height. The cashier just saw a short person in the other line and said, " I can help you over here ma'm" before I even turned around, but still kept calling me ma'm after seeing my face. I really don't think I have a famine face, but the height thing might have killed it for me, and possibly the voice afterwards.

I do agree about the attitude thing. People will go alone with whatever someone calls you.  I believe if you say you are male, people will believe you as long as you have confidence and don't doubt yourself for a minute.
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Arch

Dominick, I know a couple of really short trans guys. One of them is early in transition--about two years in--and he is still misread occasionally, even though he has obvious facial hair. Then again, he has very dark skin, so the facial hair isn't as obvious until you're up close. I think his height is a major factor.

But the other guy transitioned late in life, maybe eight years ago. He is now in his fifties. NOBODY questions him. In fact, I know of one gay guy who was ready to duke it out when someone said that the trans guy was in fact trans. The gay guy found it that unbelievable. The height just isn't a factor, although it might have been at one time.

Adolescence is a slow process, and we FTMs have a number of disadvantages that young cis boys don't have. We have to overcome/reverse years or even decades of feminization. They don't. It's not just T, though--you'll "grow into yourself" and get more and more confident and comfortable. But you'll get there, believe me. Maybe quite soon.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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xAndrewx

They all have great advice so I've got nothing to add there but Elijah and a couple others I believe mentioned that it takes longer for some guys and I'm one of them.

Around 6 months my voice had only dropped a small amount and other than a little muscle mass there wasn't any real obvious change but doing videos for myself and pictures has helped. In the last month and a half or so (7 1/2 months on T) has been when my voice has really shown change & other changes have become obvious.

wheat thins are delicious

Quote from: Dominick_81 on August 04, 2011, 03:58:33 PM
How long do you have to be on T to pass as totally male?

It's different for everyone.  There is no set amount of time.

Quote from: Dominick_81 on August 04, 2011, 03:58:33 PM
When people see you as female and use female pronouns in public, do you correct them or let it go?

If I know them and they still aren't getting it right (this is mostly coworkers that I never interact with) I correct them. 


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PandaValentine

I think I pass most of the time (Don't know because I don't get people using pronouns with me) and I'm a year and a month on T. If there is one thing that helps me pass it's constantly wearing shorts with hairy legs, it and I think it's safer for people to assume I'm a guy even if they aren't sure rather than thinking about woman actually having hairy legs. My endo said give your voice at least 5 years to change. I think we all expect to see changes so quickly but honestly at 6 months things started standing still for me, I didn't start getting facial hair until 9 months on T. I also know how you feel about being short, the last time I went with my mum to the store and there was a self checkout the woman said treated me like a child asking if I was having fun. I spend a lot of time avoiding going out right now because of this and still feeling like I don't pass 100% even if it is a possible 60%. Also I never correct anyone, it just makes me too uncomfortable and if they are strangers I couldn't care less since chances are I probably won't see them again.
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Natkat

how well you pass also got alot to say about where you are.
ex, I just been to comic conventions where many girls where dressing up as guys,
and it very VERY hard to pass because many also had binded there chest and so on..
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MarinaM

I told a trans man that was upset about their beard growth 5 years into T that it took me from the time I started puberty to the time I was 25 to be able to develop a respectable beard (if I wanted one). My T levels were around 470 when I started transition. That's at least 10 to 12 years. It also took that long for it to (as a trans woman) begin altering me in the most unacceptable and irreversible manners: finalizing the setting of my masculine features, contributing to hair loss, and destroying my complexion... (I started HRT just in time!)

So, a full puberty takes a decade or more. A few months is enough to see some results, I'm sure, but probably nothing astronomical. Gotta keep trying hard to do it yourself, even with a little T relief.
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Squirrel698

#35
For the love of ....

All right I don't want to get into an argument.  I'm just going to state the obvious for the record once again.  Going on T so you will pass to other people is NOT a good reason to go on T.  In my humble opinion.

Goodnight and Good Luck

That being said I've been on T for 14 or 15 months and still don't pass 100%.  I pass 99.9%.  I was misgendered the other day because I was upset.  I was at a Calver's with my cousin and I was discussing my messed up family situation with her.  This caused me to lose my appetite so I went to the counter to ask for a take away box.  The cashier refereed to me as 'her'.  That was the first time in a long time.  However I understand why because confidence is key.  Since I looked like I was about to burst into tears it wasn't my manliest moment. 

Usually it's getting better and better in that regard.  Service personal are beginning to refer to me as 'Sir' quite often which tells me I completely pass to them.  Before they wouldn't refer to me at all because they didn't want to get it wrong. 

I made a commitment to myself to ALWAYS correct people who get it wrong.  I do it out of personal respect for MYSELF.  I deserve to be seen for who I am.  If someone gets it wrong I correct them firmly and make sure they understand.       
"It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul"
Invictus - William Ernest Henley
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RyGuy

squirrel while i understand and respect what you're trying to say, you have to remember that some people's social dysphoria is worse than their physical dysphoria, and that doesn't mean that they deserve any less access to medication that will help them with that than others.
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Nygeel

Quote from: RyanThomas on August 08, 2011, 01:13:44 PM
squirrel while i understand and respect what you're trying to say, you have to remember that some people's social dysphoria is worse than their physical dysphoria, and that doesn't mean that they deserve any less access to medication that will help them with that than others.
Seconded. I was pretty okay with my body but absolutely hated never being seen as male. I waited about 6 years in an attempt to do other things to help my situation but it didn't work so I went with T.
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Squirrel698

My opinion is only my opinion and should only be taken as my opinion even if it's not your opinion.

The reason I went on T in the first place is because I realized to myself that I was in fact living for others.  I was more concerned with my mother's image before the family than I was with my own personal happiness.  Once I started living for myself than I was able to have a much more fulfilling life.  It's nice that I pass as male to others.  It is however much more powerful that I pass to myself.

I personally don't think Dominick should be risking his health, hair and longevity just so others will view him a certain way.  I think that is a one way road to major disappointment and depression.  For a major life change like this you should do it for yourself or else you are counting on others to vindicate your decision.  That will never work out well because they don't care about you as much as they care about themselves. 

I told him this before he went on T when he was so concerned about the side effects he is experiencing and complaining about right now.  If he can't see what the point of T is if you only get acne he shouldn't be on it.     

"It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul"
Invictus - William Ernest Henley
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RyGuy

again, I understand and respect what you're saying but I highly doubt Dominic feels completely like what he conveyed in the original post. I think he is probably on t for just as "right" of a reason as any of us, but is simply feeling frustrated and disappointed right now. he is allowed to feel both and express that as he wishes.
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