QuoteThis is comparing apples to oranges. We are judged based on preconceived notions. I think everyone here is basing their judgement on criminal statistics. Big difference. As Brenda pointed out.

                  i don't see the difference, i agree with Kimberly, you are pre judging him because he is in prison for committing robbery. it doesn't matter if lots of criminals abuse women. this could or could not apply to him. there are men who dress as women to rob banks, so stay away from anyone that may appear to be like that?

beth

             

QuoteIs that not the same as what we go through? Why of all peoples are we so blind to repeat the same stupidity?

The difference is that I/we are productive members of society who have not comitted a crime or as I read what has been posted, crimes!

Quotei don't see the difference, i agree with Kimberly, you are pre judging him because he is in prison for committing robbery.

Do you have any idea what the recidivism rate is of convicted criminals?

Of the 272,111 persons released from prisons in 15 States in 1994, an estimated 67.5% were rearrested for a felony or serious misdemeanor within 3 years, 46.9% were reconvicted, and 25.4% resentenced to prison for a new crime.

The 272,111 offenders discharged in 1994 accounted for nearly 4,877,000 arrest charges over their recorded careers.

Not exactly the profile of a sterling citizen.

unless he is one of the 32.5%



beth

We don't know much about Tony other than he is in prision and has robbed more than one bank.  Is this his first time to prision, or has he been there before?  If it is his first, then maybe he will change, if he has been there before I would worry (not that a good woman can't change a man).

All I can say Gina is Good Luck, I hope for the best to come of it, but you are starting out with two strikes against you.


Sarah

Does he have family and if so what do they have to say about him.
And this may sound like a dumb question has he told you why he robbed the banks. was it just to get money, Or for drug cash, Mabey he was out of a job and broke, Anyway there might be or might not be another problem that he may not of told you. We can give you all the advice in the world, And even more give you all the supprt we can. But its you who makes the choice.
And I truly hope that that 32.5% will go up a notch.

Love,Hugs,and support
Brandi

Kimberly,

I agree with your principal, but the question is, knowing what you know here, would you marry him?

I agree with not judging someone, but the point is that there are MANY other people out there.  Why not try to find someone who hasn't robbed bankS, or been in jail MORE than once (I know that because of the length of time he's in for now).

You have to admit you would look elsewhere and that you would not allow or would discourage a family member from dating or marrying this guy.  And if you don't agree...you're lying.

We are pre judging, but for VERY good reason.

PS  For the record, I still think Gina is going to tell us this is a joke, but it makes for good debating anyway.

Quotethere are men who dress as women to rob banks

They are using it as a disguise to avoid being identified. As soon as they are out the door and down the street they are back to regular clothes. Such a person is not identifying as woman they are merely trying to avoid detection. It is a lie just like this guys notes to bank tellers stating some threat of physical violence if they do not comply.

Bank robbers don't rob banks as a last resort or as some kind of quick fix to temporary money problems. They are professionals. One that does not use force is a professional. Desperate people use guns not well thought well planned methods of intimidation. This guy is a pro. He may be a gentleman about it but he is a pro. I will say it again, no good will come of this.

Is he genuine towards Gina? Perhaps. Bank robbers need love too. Will he rob banks again. Yes, of that I have no doubt. Have I prejudged? Guilty as charged. Am I judgeing him based on preconceived notions? No. I am judging him based on the facts. He wasn't convicted of the posssibility that he might rob a bank he was convicted of robbing a bank.

He was not convicted of what somebody thought he was he was convicted for what he is. This is a big difference from judging somebody on what they look like their sexual preferences or their gender identity. That's how I see it.

Cassie

To me, all of this issues can be boiled down ot one single question:  Does this sound like a viable relationship?

Gina, hon, if you follow the threads you will see that a lot of us have some very serious concerns, both about the relationship and your safety.

I have heard your words that he says that he has never used a gun.

Have you checked hin out?  Have you done your research to see what else he has been convicted of?  It doesn't sound it. 

This man relies on the threat of violence to steal.  Bank tellers hand over money because it is assumed that the robber has a weapon, and the bank is more concerned about the safety of their tellers than the money.  And bank robbery is a mojor crime!  It's not like he stole a tank of gas.  This is the big leagues in terms of felonies.  You can't trust his word in this.

(As an aside to my sisters who may accuse me of jumping the gun, I am basing this on personal experience.)

There are other and better ways to meet people, people who do not have a criminal record.  Please, please, please check some of these out.  The first one that comes to mind is your local church/synagauge (sic).  Many large faiths have support groups for LGBT's.  Odds are that the majority of these people do not spent time on the inside of a prison.

Please listen to us objectively, hon.  We have listened carefully to what you have said.  Please listen to us and at least check this guy out.

Chaunte

Quote from: Brenda32 on October 04, 2005, 09:26:55 PM...
knowing what you know here, would you marry him?
...

No, and neither would I marry anyone else whose name and occupation are the only things I know of them.

Quote from: Brenda32 on October 04, 2005, 09:26:55 PM...
but the point is that there are MANY other people out there.
...

My point has nothing to do with the amount of people out there

Quote from: Brenda32 on October 04, 2005, 09:26:55 PM...
You have to admit you would look elsewhere and that you would not allow or would discourage a family member from dating or marrying this guy.
...

You are partially correct. My methods of finding a mate are different.

What makes you think I think I have a right to dictate what my child does (once they have proven that they are indeed competent) ? Recall that I previously answered that I would want to check my daughter's logic. That would be a check of the competency.

Flip side, who has the right to tell me that I am wrong in falling in love with a criminal? Who has a right to bar me from marrying who I wish?  My life, my decisions. No one else has a right to dictate to me how I should live my life, nor why. Why on earth would I want to start running my child's life?

Quote from: Brenda32 on October 04, 2005, 09:26:55 PM...
And if you don't agree...you're lying.
...

Are you so sure of that?

Kimberly; I realize that five years is a long time to wait, but considering that I've waited thirty seven years to find the right love, five years is nothing.

Chaunte; Tony has never been convicted of anything else except for bank robbery. But I do appreciate your concern. This is also his first conviction and in regards to what Brandi had said, we have talked about this that he deffinately doesn't want to go back, so he's going to stay clean now that he has a better life ahead of himself with me. 

As for his immedaite family, they have deserted him except for his father and in a recent letter he told me that I am his only family except for his father. I felt very touched by those words.

I honestly think that I cna change him into a better person once he's back into society and we can live a good life together. He wants to live in Mexico.

Thanks Sarah Louise for your vote of confidence in us.

Gina

QuoteTony has never been convicted of anything else except for bank robbery.

A conviction does not mean that this is the only time he has done anything only the first time the prosecutors were able to get a conviction. Heck in 10 years I've only had one speeding ticket, but I've never seen a speed limit sign I couldn't exceed.

Cassie

Quote from: Cassandra on October 06, 2005, 05:21:22 PM
Heck in 10 years I've only had one speeding ticket, but I've never seen a speed limit sign I couldn't exceed.

Cassie

Ok, pull over, let me see your hands, and step away from the car.    As a school bus driving instructor I have to frown... consider yourself frowned upon. 

Steph

Kimberly,

You're trying hard to play the "I don't judge people" game.  The truth is we ALL judge in one way or another.  Some more drastically than others, but we all do it.

You're right you don't have the "right" to tell your adult children who to date.  I'll tell you though even with mature, responsible adult children there is no way I would simply listen to the logic and say "ok, I support you".  When you have children it's a life long commitment to watch out for their best interest.  Even adults do stupid things if you let them.

Bottom line.  We are going in circles and I've said my peace.

Gina, you said:

Quotemy husband has never used a gun when he robbed banks. He always walks in and hands the teller a note and proceeds from there.

If he has robbed one bank then why did you say BANKS?

Exactly, the plural tense is mentioned MANY times in that sentence.  It just doesn't all add up.  Something is certainly missing from the story.

Quote from: gina_taylor on October 06, 2005, 03:38:44 PM...
Kimberly; I realize that five years is a long time to wait, but considering that I've waited thirty seven years to find the right love, five years is nothing.
...

Five years is typically either a very short time or an eternity.

How did I get drug into time discussions though?

Quote from: Brenda32 on October 06, 2005, 08:20:13 PM...
You're trying hard to play the "I don't judge people" game.  The truth is we ALL judge in one way or another.  Some more drastically than others, but we all do it.
...

I don't believe I have said I do not judge people. I judge people all the time, sometimes fairly sometimes not. However, I do try and keep prejudices very far out of it.

Prejudices are my point by the way. Saying this man is bad because he is a criminal is like saying he is bad because he is trans, or purple, or perhaps like little puffy clouds. The point is "criminal" is not enough of a reason (because it tells you next to nothing about the person) to discount someone.

Quote from: Brenda32 on October 06, 2005, 08:20:13 PM...
You're right you don't have the "right" to tell your adult children who to date.  I'll tell you though even with mature, responsible adult children there is no way I would simply listen to the logic and say "ok, I support you".  When you have children it's a life long commitment to watch out for their best interest.
...

Children are a life long commitment yes, but it is not the parent's right to dictate the child's life. Do you think your mother should be able to tell you that you can go to the movies or not? To drive a car or not? To marry or not? To Transition or not? ... There is a line between being a guardian (good parent) and a tyrant (bad parent).

Quote from: Brenda32 on October 06, 2005, 08:20:13 PM...
Even adults do stupid things if you let them.
...

Do I have a right to keep those adults from doing (what I consider) stupid things? Do you?

Circles, nothing but circles.

Tony has robbed many banks, and  this is the first time that he has been caught for the crime. But one cannot judge him. He has really shown me a good side of him since I've gotten to know him since we've been correspondig with each other. I read between the lines, and believe me there is nothing between them.

Gina

Quote from: gina_taylor on October 07, 2005, 11:04:08 AM
believe me there is nothing between them.

Gina

The lines?

Quote from: gina_taylor on October 07, 2005, 11:04:08 AM
Tony has robbed many banks, and  this is the first time that he has been caught for the crime. But one cannot judge him. He has really shown me a good side of him since I've gotten to know him since we've been correspondig with each other. I read between the lines, and believe me there is nothing between them.

Gina

Hello Gina,

Remember you have to honest with yourself, what other side of him would you expect to see while he is in prison?  Has he had the chance to show you his not so good side, we all have them?

On another note, I'm not sure how your legal system works in the U.S. but if you know that he has robbed other banks and has not been caught for them, aren't you supposed to notify the authorities, else you are aiding and abetting a criminal?

Just my thoughts,

Steph