Quote from: Ann Onymous on September 07, 2011, 12:40:19 AM

There isn't any point in going further with ANY of the pre- or non-op's because the divide between that group and those who are post-op is simply too great to be overcome.  But because some of us [had the privilege and ability to] gotget on with life as it SHOULD have been, it is only a matter of time before some around here begin tossing the ever-so-popular taunt that those of us who are post-operative are also elitist not the only "twue transsexuals".

Fixed.

Quote from: FullMoon19 on September 06, 2011, 06:59:47 PM
i have alot of trouble wrapping my head around many mtf here who put so much emphasis on having a vulva instead of a penis. even though i have a penis, i barely think about it, and i'm not the type who breaks down crying when i have to look at it in the shower. i just feel nothing about it. i don't like it, and i don't hate it. hrt was really the most important thing to me. as far as having a vagina for aesthetic reasons or feeling like more of a woman, well, i don't. exclusively, i feel like it's just the ideal for sex reasons, and that's it. the emphasis of having a vulva just makes me more mad because it keeps furthuring the idea that "you aren't really a woman until the penis comes off." that's just how i see it.

Kia Ora FullMoon,

It all boils down to "contentment"....I found contentment living full time on HRT [minus surgery and did so four for over four years]...Surgery in regards to my mental well being was of no great importance, however it was when I started to look into castration as a way to stop taking AA, that I found out I could have government funded surgery...I thought if I could have it all "for free", then why not, so I did...In a sense genital surgery "FOR ME PERSONALLY" was more along the lines of a "cosmetic" procedure, it was not a matter of life and death in my case...

But the point I'm making here is "Contentment" is the key issue[or one's level of contentment]...If one can find contentment without the need of genital surgery, all well and good, and if they can have legal documents changed, even better...They should consider themselves lucky....I also found myself in this position due to the Gender Recognition Bill being passed in the UK in 2004-However I was fortunate enough to be selected for government funded surgery here in Aotearoa...

In the long run-each to their own I guess...I just hope whatever one does with their body, one finds true "contentment"... 

After all, we each live our own lives...So whatever turns one on... turns one on...So enjoy being you !.

Metta Zenda      

Lucky dogs with your health care system not being in shambles.

Kia Ora Nygeel,

Here in Aotearoa [NZ] we have what's known as the Special High Cost Treatment Funding Pool {SHCTFP] part of this "tax payer's" money covers four surgeries every two years = One F2M and Three M2Fs [Surgery for M2Fs cheaper one could say Three M2Fs for the price of one F2M]...It's not perfect but it could be far worse...

http://www.moh.govt.nz/moh.nsf/indexmh/special-high-cost-treatment-pool

Metta Zenda

Quote from: Ann Onymous on September 07, 2011, 12:40:19 AM
so please tell us how your last appointment with the gynecologist went...

Defense rests.

There isn't any point in going further with ANY of the pre- or non-op's because the divide between that group and [SOME OF] those who are post-op is simply too great to be overcome.  But because some of us got on with life as it SHOULD have been, it is only a matter of time before some around here begin tossing the ever-so-popular taunt that those of us who are post-operative are also elitist.

*sigh* I guess discussing your last gynecologist visit is also an integral part of your daily life...

And not elitist, just as narrow minded as any hate group is. I accept some people have a serious NEED for SRS even if I don't understand it myself. But you won't accept other people may not have this same NEED for SRS you did to "get on with their life" as a woman.

BTW how do you feel my life SHOULD have been? For me being transgendered has been tough but I have experienced a LOT of things I would never had and have insights into both genders non-trans people will never comprehend. For the most part I have had a happy life. I'm not sure what it SHOULD have been.

Quote from: Valeriedances on September 07, 2011, 02:27:30 AM
Taking hormones is not representative of an irreversible change of sex. A person can stop taking hormones at any time.

It is in many ways. If a person stops taking hormones, yes their body might go back to being more like it was but after long term use there are irreversible changes. I know if I grow a full beard and stop taking T I'll still have the ability to grow a beard.

Quote from: Ann Onymous on September 07, 2011, 12:40:19 AM
so please tell us how your last appointment with the gynecologist went...

Defense rests.

There isn't any point in going further with ANY of the pre- or non-op's because the divide between that group and those who are post-op is simply too great to be overcome.  But because some of us got on with life as it SHOULD have been, it is only a matter of time before some around here begin tossing the ever-so-popular taunt that those of us who are post-operative are also elitist.

Firstly, my last gynaecologist visit went just fine, as did the previous ones and as will the future ones, I hope.. Yes, that's right, only 4 months on hormones and I'm seeing a gyno - that's because she is administering my hormones..

And your right, there is no point in going any further with the Pre/Non-Op vs Post-Op arguments.. Both sides are guilty of being completely idiotic about it and it's been let go so long there is no repairing it..

Quote from: Valeriedances on September 07, 2011, 02:27:30 AM
Taking hormones is not representative of an irreversible change of sex. A person can stop taking hormones at any time.

I understand YOU feel SRS=Woman. Not everyone feels the same way you do. I accept you felt a NEED for SRS to live your life as a woman even if I don't understand it. It would just be nice if you could accept some people don't have that same need.

Again, first (before you removed the conflicting posts) you explain people who don't NEED SRS shouldn't have it. Then you describe how horrible it was during your RLT to deal with the ID thing, but then have no shame in subjecting others who don't have a NEED for SRS to a lifetime of this.  So by these statements do you feel that people should have SRS for the sole reason of getting their gender marker changed?

I'm really confused why you feel so strongly about this and why people should be forced into surgery they don't need to resolve this ID conflict. You clearly understand how bad this feels, why wouldn't you be sympathetic towards people who also have this same problem you have experienced first hand. Do you feel that this belittles your womanhood if non-pre-ops are allowed gender marker change or is it you suffered through surgery to get this so others should too? I'm really trying to understand why some post-ops act like this on this subject.

Can we please cool off the attack mode here?  This argument isn't doing anything but hurting people.

there's lots of cisgender females who don't go to a gynecologist, like my mom. that just sounds more like the context of "a real woman does this." i believe stephe when she says she lives as a woman 24/7. she is living completely how she herself feels woman is, so then she must be right, she is living 24/7. i just don't care. if someone gets srs because it best suits their lifestyle, great, but when it gets into telling someone else because they don't do it the same that they are something less than who they say they are is just going back to the same oppression most of us are trying to escape through the use of this site.

Quote from: Stephe on September 07, 2011, 02:25:40 AM
*sigh* I guess discussing your last gynecologist visit is also an integral part of your daily life...

daily life?  No.  But the subject DOES arise on a regular basis within the office given that most of the LA's are women...many of whom are not happy with the limited choice in the area where the firm is located.

QuoteBTW how do you feel my life SHOULD have been? For me being transgendered has been tough but I have experienced a LOT of things I would never had and have insights into both genders non-trans people will never comprehend. For the most part I have had a happy life. I'm not sure what it SHOULD have been.

I cannot speak to what a 'transgendered' person might otherwise have wanted or expect.  I was NEVER transgendered.  I HAD a transsexual medical condition...that condition no longer exists due to medical intervention consistent with accepted medical protocol for the treatment of said condition.

D'aww, my questions were not answered. Must be another double standard.

Quote from: Nygeel on September 07, 2011, 02:37:53 AM
It is in many ways. If a person stops taking hormones, yes their body might go back to being more like it was but after long term use there are irreversible changes. I know if I grow a full beard and stop taking T I'll still have the ability to grow a beard.

Quote from: Nygeel on September 07, 2011, 08:43:09 AM
D'aww, my questions were not answered. Must be another double standard.

If I may...

There is no doubt that how a person feels is strictly and personal issue that generally would not be changed by debate.  And yes if a person feels that simply taking hormones is all that is needed then so be it, it's their life.  Where folks can run into trouble is when the condition is know and once know, how society, the general public perceives/treats that person.  I could imagine that a person could easily hide the fact that they still had male genitalia, and that's good too, who am I to judge.

With regard to HRT...  There does come a point when the effects become irreversible but many medical professionals do not consider HRT alone as a standard that constitutes a sex/gender change.  There's enough negative debate/concern in society on wether CD/TV should be allowed/considered to be women and I'm afraid that those simply taking HRT may run up against this same wall.

Just my thoughts.

Quote from: Steph on September 07, 2011, 09:54:08 AM
If I may...

There is no doubt that how a person feels is strictly and personal issue that generally would not be changed by debate.  And yes if a person feels that simply taking hormones is all that is needed then so be it, it's their life.  Where folks can run into trouble is when the condition is know and once know, how society, the general public perceives/treats that person.  I could imagine that a person could easily hide the fact that they still had male genitalia, and that's good too, who am I to judge.

With regard to HRT...  There does come a point when the effects become irreversible but many medical professionals do not consider HRT alone as a standard that constitutes a sex/gender change.  There's enough negative debate/concern in society on wether CD/TV should be allowed/considered to be women and I'm afraid that those simply taking HRT may run up against this same wall.

Just my thoughts.

Quote from: Steph on September 07, 2011, 09:54:08 AM
If I may...

There is no doubt that how a person feels is strictly and personal issue that generally would not be changed by debate.  And yes if a person feels that simply taking hormones is all that is needed then so be it, it's their life.  Where folks can run into trouble is when the condition is know and once know, how society, the general public perceives/treats that person.  I could imagine that a person could easily hide the fact that they still had male genitalia, and that's good too, who am I to judge.

With regard to HRT...  There does come a point when the effects become irreversible but many medical professionals do not consider HRT alone as a standard that constitutes a sex/gender change.  There's enough negative debate/concern in society on wether CD/TV should be allowed/considered to be women and I'm afraid that those simply taking HRT may run up against this same wall.

Just my thoughts.

But I'm not asking for the opinion for medical professionals and this does not address the double standard that I see. Trans men might "need top surgery" but trans women always need something down there...I think this is a case of trans misogyny mixed in with a bit of cissexism, topped off with classism.

Darn web browser glitched.

Quote from: Nygeel on September 07, 2011, 10:09:24 AM
But I'm not asking for the opinion for medical professionals and this does not address the double standard that I see. Trans men might "need top surgery" but trans women always need something down there...I think this is a case of trans misogyny mixed in with a bit of cissexism, topped off with classism.

Darn web browser glitched.

I see what you are getting at but I'm afraid that I can't comment on how whether Trans-Men needing top surgery, other than if I were a Trans-Man I would feel the need to have the surgery to feel whole.

Quote from: Steph on September 07, 2011, 10:24:13 AM
I see what you are getting at but I'm afraid that I can't comment on how whether Trans-Men needing top surgery, other than if I were a Trans-Man I would feel the need to have the surgery to feel whole.

There are trans men with incredibly small chests that look male (chests look like a cis male's), so why bother?

Quote from: Ann Onymous on September 07, 2011, 07:09:02 AM
daily life?  No.  But the subject DOES arise on a regular basis within the office given that most of the LA's are women...many of whom are not happy with the limited choice in the area where the firm is located.

So joining in this conversation makes you a woman? I'm trying to grasp the importance of this. It seems odd for a group of women to regularly discuss their gynecology visits but maybe where you live they do...

Quote from: Ann Onymous on September 07, 2011, 07:09:02 AM
I cannot speak to what a 'transgendered' person might otherwise have wanted or expect. 

Well clearly you feel you can speak on this subject. You said "because some of us got on with life as it SHOULD have been", unless you are including me in this group of "some"? It sounds like you feel I'm not living my life as it should have been.

Also not sure what context "otherwise" is being used here. Other than what?

Quote from: Steph on September 07, 2011, 10:24:13 AM
I see what you are getting at but I'm afraid that I can't comment on how whether Trans-Men needing top surgery, other than if I were a Trans-Man I would feel the need to have the surgery to feel whole.

I think the key thing here is when you say; you would need surgery to feel whole. Not everyone does, but are forced to have surgery or accept the wrong gender marker. Not a good choice to have to make..