Isn't it funny that MTFs are referred to commonly as TGirls and FTMs are TMen?  Yes we use 'trans woman' but I don't feel its as common.  Its just that I feel FTMs are more acceptable?  Like they get to be MEN and we just get to be girls?

Maybe I think of it this way because the fact that I'm not comfortable with being called a woman, I like being called a girl more. 

I dunno, interesting thought?

I definitely agree with the "girl" vs. "woman" thing. I can't imagine being a "woman," but being a girl is easy to conceive.

I find it a little more interesting that women can call each other 'girls' yet if a man calls a woman a 'girl' it's derogatory.

these pronouns are funny huh?

i mean girls call men boys but if a man refers to one of his friends as a boy... its weird - it actually happened to me the other week, a 'boy' looked at me weird when i referred to guys/men as 'boys' hehe

I have a hard time thinking of myself as a woman too.  I think part of it is related to the common usage of the words.  I can see many reasons for this, including for example:

Woman has an older, more mature connotation a lot of the time.  It's not as common to call a female person a woman until they're in their 40's or older.
Girl has a younger connotation.  In a society where youthfulness is idolized and sought after by women (and by men in women) we want to cling to it for as long as possible!

Man has an older, more mature connotation as well... but tends to be adopted earlier because:
Boy can have a very derogatory connotation sometimes, especially when used by men to describe other men.  Men want to get rid of this label as soon as possible.

That's my theory in any case.

Quote from: AmySmiles on September 09, 2011, 06:11:50 PM
I have a hard time thinking of myself as a woman too.  I think part of it is related to the common usage of the words.  I can see many reasons for this, including for example:

Woman has an older, more mature connotation a lot of the time.  It's not as common to call a female person a woman until they're in their 40's or older.
Girl has a younger connotation.  In a society where youthfulness is idolized and sought after by women (and by men in women) we want to cling to it for as long as possible!

Man has an older, more mature connotation as well... but tends to be adopted earlier because:
Boy can have a very derogatory connotation sometimes, especially when used by men to describe other men.  Men want to get rid of this label as soon as possible.

That's my theory in any case.

That makes a lot of sense to me.

Maybe we mtfs who think of ourselves as being girls lack the self-confidence to claim the title woman?   Perhaps some ftms secretly think of themselves as boys rather than men?   There is a difference between the public perception of girls and boys though that perhaps explains why some mtfs don't mind being girls rather than woman and why ftms are very wary of saying publicly that they are boys.    Girls are commonly believed to be more self-aware, less goofy,and more mature and trustworthy than boys of a similar age.   Boys are often seen as childish, nuisances, tiresome, irresponsible and even threatening, all of these things are negative so can we blame ftms for going straight from girl/woman to man completely by passing boy?   Besides I think that it is easier for a girl/woman to be a man than the other way around, the learning curve isn't so steep.

The reason why I think of myself as being a girl rather than a woman is that there is so much to know and experience about being female, and saying that I am a girl acknowledges my lack of female experience.

I have never felt comfortable with using the word "man" or even the word "woman" to describe sex.  When Ive referred to myself with " masculine" reference Ive always been a boy.  Im nearly 29 and society suggests that I should refer to myself as either a man or woman for my age, but Ive never felt comfortable with either.  Preferably girl but while I have to, a boy. 

A little off topic, but Im somewhat new to discussions.

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on September 09, 2011, 07:02:35 PM
Maybe we mtfs who think of ourselves as being girls lack the self-confidence to claim the title woman?   Perhaps some ftms secretly think of themselves as boys rather than men?   There is a difference between the public perception of girls and boys though that perhaps explains why some mtfs don't mind being girls rather than woman and why ftms are very wary of saying publicly that they are boys.    Girls are commonly believed to be more self-aware, less goofy,and more mature and trustworthy than boys of a similar age.   Boys are often seen as childish, nuisances, tiresome, irresponsible and even threatening, all of these things are negative so can we blame ftms for going straight from girl/woman to man completely by passing boy?   Besides I think that it is easier for a girl/woman to be a man than the other way around, the learning curve isn't so steep.

The reason why I think of myself as being a girl rather than a woman is that there is so much to know and experience about being female, and saying that I am a girl acknowledges my lack of female experience.

I think that maybe FTMs may not be comfortable with the androgeny that " boy" implies.

Girl is more innocent, cute, energetic and budding sexuality. Whereas woman is more established, opinionated, and "serious"...

Personally, I want to be a girl sometimes... and a woman others. When a boy sees me, I want them to think of me as a playful, cute, energetic, innocent and inexperienced sexually. But in the rest of the world I want to seem strong and responsible and a person who commands respect.

I think this is the same with a lot of women. Holding onto the youthful playfulness of late teens and early 20's is good... but tempered with a bit of maturity to actually be relationship material for a guy and be taken seriously when the sittuation demands it.

Quote from: bolsillodeverde on September 09, 2011, 07:06:06 PM

I think that maybe FTMs may not be comfortable with the androgeny that " boy" implies.

Yes, good observation.   

Or how about when I can get a male child to beam a fantastic grin at me when I call him a "little man".

When I was younger I would call myself a girl. But once I reached "adulthood" I now call myself a woman.

It's funny because I would give just about anything to qualify as a participant for "girls night out" at any bar/grill for the first drink free.

Side note: And not just so I could get free drinks...

Well calling me a TWomen is alright but I perfur Women.
 
Of course I am older more mature than all of you girls.

"Boy" can be an androgynous term if used in certain ways. I however can't think of myself as a transman, I'm still a kid.

"Girl" is pretty gender specific though. People often use it to refer to girls of all ages. They also cause two different trains of though. "Girl" is considered young and innocent, while a "woman" brings to mind lady-like behavior and maturity. 

Quote"Girl" is considered young and innocent, while a "woman" brings to mind lady-like behavior and maturity. 

I like that.

I like woman - I have a kid, and my parents are not holding my hand. Something about having a child matures you fast, if you do it right.

Maybe an age thing but being called a girl feels like being called a child to me.  It's fine in casual conversation or as a term of endearment, I would say.  Well, I don't think it's ever offensive, it just seems silly.  People can call me whatever, but I will generally call myself woman.  Well, I take that back.  Nobody should ever call me a "tgirl"  yuck! *shudder*

One kind of interesting thing on the subject, in the dark ages I could handle boy, but would freak out if I was ever called a man.  Like seriously freak out so people would be like WTF?  I wonder why I could handle boy.  Maybe I was subconsciously holding onto the notion I had as a child that I would grow up to be a woman.  Being called a man proved it was wrong somehow?

Being considered by oneself, and being called, a woman is more restrictive - my experience.

One feels one needs to live up to a certain standard - lady like, and in my case I do NOT feel lady like. I have seen to much in my life, done to much that might have killed a Lady by now. Like a Lady would just have swooned to death?!?

Yet, when some degree of public response is needed, the term woman is actually fine by me. If I'm with friends I feel much more girl like since I'm neither in the mood nor actually willing to play some lady like' act', it be a bit put-on.
To be a Lady even more so, then to be woman, has limitations that the term girl just does not imply. Like girls-night. Or, "where are we girls going tonight...", etc.

To actually feel like a woman may be some time down the ally? --- it needs YEARS on HRT to acquire the womanly thing, if EVER.
I have a notion I still be a girl at 70! ... and not sooo far to go.

Lastly there is' girly' AND 'girlie'... during the very early phase on HRT I went through this girly phase, it's a puberty thing if you ask me, and it does not really take as long for older girls, as it takes for a natal female. Just as well!
This girly stuff seems a bit embarrassing by today - and it's only about 1 year past for me!

In closing, could it be as we grow more and more into our emotional female role, being a WOMAN will feel just totally natural and alright – in time.
It could well be.

Tgirl and Tman...
nah, in SA a tgirl is a tea-girl, a black servant that brings you tea at 10am and 3am :-)

Tman... let the experts come in on that one.
From a woman's (ha! there I go, he he) perspective I don't care for that either.
Either you a man or you not.
Tman also has that flavour of t-boy, so unless you want to serve tea... then it be OK. YMMV

Axelle

   As long as i'm referred to as female that's all i care about. 

It's a funny one. I'm a woman, having some years under the belt I'll have problems qualifying as a girl. But I do go to'girls night out.' And my friends as a group call ourselves girls. You really cannot walk into a room and see your friend and say 'Hi Women', you have to say Hi Girls. Or becoming more common here is 'Hi Guys' which I think in Australia is just about gender neutral. I've never heard a man walk to his friends and say Hi boys, but I have often heard male friends say I'm going out with the boys to the pub, footy whatever. I'm playing golf with the boys tomorrow, isn't regarded as odd. At least not in my circle.

In a restaurant, my female friends and are are greeted and referred to as ladies. 'Good evening ladies' 'May I take your order ladies?' If I'm with a man, it is Sir and Mam.

In Australia many males refer to their friends with nicknames, even if it is simple as Johno for John, there seems to be some bonding in referring to friends with nicknames. I've never heard the same  among woman, unless 'that bitch'  has become a nickname .

Yet woman will eagerly and joyfully call a new bride by her spousal name. "Well Mrs Smith" congratulations, and it is meant with love and respect. The boys don't do the same for Mr Smith

Female and male cultural differences are wide. Try the 'would you let your son sleep with his girlfriend in your house, and would you let your daughter sleep with her boyfriend in your house' discussion.

Love
Cindy