Well seriously.

Aside from you feeling anwkward with not passing, does it really matters to you and why?

I mean this with things that are really important, such as career or being harassed. I am realising I don't pass 100% and am beginning to gauge people's reactions better now that I am used to going out en femme. I know some folks notice and if you go to a workplace, it is only a matter of time before word spreads, unless if you went through surgical procedures, started HRT on puberty or have been on it for a long ass time. I think nearly all of us went full time before passing always was a reality

Most people I meet don't seen to give a rat's ass about my past if they notice and from the stuff I read here on the forums, Brazil seens to be incredibly transgender friendly. Lack of doctor support aside, things work. I spoke with my superiors about my future and they all agree I wouldn't have any problems even if I didn't pass at all, and since I have many feminine features I should be fine.

So it is like, more a matter of delivering a package that is well put together more than passing 100%. I could have some male stuff on me as long as I don't have a full beard, as a example. Then for the rest, I guess, what is important is BEING confident. Acting confident is not enough. Once those two things are meet, what is the importance of passing all the time? Ins't passing overrated? As long as I can do my job and am not harassed, I don't care about passing, it is pointless.

In a zen buddhist way of thinking, not caring about passing also helps us with passing. Today I was acessing a patient  and he was a person with a lot of anxiety, he also had come in with his nephew. It would be ideal if he was alone for this kind of thing since he had a psychiatric problem, but we were in a general practice environment at public health care so the consultation went with her in my office. Anyway, since I'm under the supervision of a male doctor and am not a graduated doctor yet, and since all nouns in portuguese have female and male counterparts, the patient's companion keep saying she wanted to ask the doctor(male) for this and that medication. I had no way to know if she was referring to me or to my superior.

This is a situation I coud have went "oh my god, I was clocked, and at work". But for once I processed a different line of thought. I thought I was a girl, and if she was referring to me she would be saying doctor(female). So I told her "You are in consultation with me, and if you want to discuss exams or medications you have to do so with me". To this, the patient told his nephew "Yes, we are not in consultation with Dr. Random Name, we are with her"

So what I mean is, I don't pass 100% by looks, absolutely not, but it seens to me that dropping this issue just lets me pass a lot more often. I could have so not passed in that situation because of something that person said, but then all of sudden I realised it was just my self-steem issue playing tricks on me.

Girls, what exactly is passing and why is it so important? Why do we care so much about it? Why can't we be proud of being TG and just BE the women we are, even if we are clocked?

Quote from: Bird on September 16, 2011, 09:53:09 AM
Aside from you feeling anwkward with not passing, does it really matters to you and why?

[snip]

Girls, what exactly is passing and why is it so important? Why do we care so much about it? Why can't we be proud of being TG and just BE the women we are, even if we are clocked?

a few things, from heavy to light...

1) some of were NEVER 'TG' and it really is frustrating to continue to see people choosing to ignore that issue, especially in a forum for "transsexual talk."

2) why restrict the discussion just to the women?  Are the men on the board left aside in this discussion?  I know you posted in the M2F section but  I am reasonably sure they are equally as concerned with the subject...

3) on a lighter side and to answer the question, one need only go back to the old Andre Agassi line of "image IS everything."  I forget which camera company he pimped in that campaign but it became his catch phrase for a period of time during the pinnacle of his career.

It is VERY important to me to pass when I socially transition. I mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone on this site or anywhere else but I'm transitioning to become a woman, not a TG or anything in between.  I have a long ways yet to go on this journey and my view may change along the way but I will not accept anything short of passing 100%. I respect others views and in no way would ever impose that standard on anyone but myself. Could I be setting myself up for a hard fall? Absolutely.  If I have to work 80 hours a week for a few years to afford the means to meet my goal, so be it.

On a lighter note, I was in was walking through Wal-Mart yesterday thinking that todays's ciswomen sure are making it easier for us to blend in.!

@Ann

I thought TG means Transgender, which is a better term than transsexual since it focuses on gender, i'm sorry

@Jess

But aren't you a woman already?
I'm asking because the concept of transitioning to be a woman is fairly weird to me. I think all transgendered women are women, no matter how we look like. Same for the guys.

Quote from: Bird on September 16, 2011, 11:00:27 AM
@Ann

I thought TG means Transgender, which is a better term than transsexual since it focuses on gender, i'm sorry

I KNOW *what* TG stood for...some of us do not buy into the umbrella concept.  I also do not concur that it is a better term.  I never WAS and never WILL BE transgendered.  Many others feel the same (as evidenced by the many threads lately on the subject). 

I did not change my gender...what was changed was the sexual characteristics (and my diagnosis was also associated with a TRANSSEXUAL condition). 

Quote from: Ann Onymous on September 16, 2011, 10:00:15 AM

2) why restrict the discussion just to the women?  Are the men on the board left aside in this discussion?  I know you posted in the M2F section but  I am reasonably sure they are equally as concerned with the subject...

Well, since I was invited... 
I think the issue of passing can be different for men and women. When I was clocked, I wasn't clocked as trans but just as 'female'. I was taken for a female, albeit one in male clothes. And enough girls have masculine names that even that doesn't do much if you just look like a butch female. Whereas because of clothing differences, the world can usually see that a less passable woman is living as a woman.  Until I passed, no one knew I was even trying to.  YMMV and all that.

Of course, that doesn't mean I'm suggesting it's easier for the ladies, by any means... Just that 'passing' is a little different. I was 'she' to the world until I passed. I don't know whether I would have been okay with not passing if people still used male pronouns and the like. I think if your gender is being recognized by the public despite passability issues and you're comfortable with that, more power to you. 

Well to me it is very important to do whatevr u can do to pass. For me the more I see me as a woman, the more confident I feel.
For yrs I denied myself of the truth. Now I have excepted and quite ok with being TG. But passing is important to me. I remember
a doc/special I saw once, a surgeon that does FFS made a statement that if someone knocks at the door early n da morning, u put ur robe on and answer the door with no makeup on u will still be greeted as maam....Thats my goal!!

Saving my $ for whatever is needed............Christy

I completely agree with Jessica, and have those exact same thoughts when walking through Wal-Mart

Christy's "robe" analogy is pretty much my own standard also when it comes to specifics, though I would add that I'd like to be able to go to a beach in a bikini or mow the lawn in a sports bra and not get clocked.

It's not passing that matters, it's BEING that matters.

BEING is the Ultimate goal.

Quote from: Bird on September 16, 2011, 09:53:09 AM


Most people I meet don't seen to give a rat's ass about my past if they notice and from the stuff I read here on the forums, Brazil seens to be incredibly transgender friendly.

Are you in Brazil? Or, are you brazilian? I'm from there, and I can assure you that that country is FAR AWAY from being trans friendly.

Backing to the topic, being passable is also about being respected. What I try to say that for the majority of humans is very hard to accept that "some women have penises, some men don't" as said by Julia Serano. Depending where you are, 1 little thing that might point you out as being TS/TG will make people calling you with wrong pronouns (specially among brazilians - even though you keep referring yourself as woman and have introduced yourself as a woman), or even changing attitude towards you.

I am a woman, and wants to be seen and treated as such. Whatever it means, since I am also a bit far from the stereotypical girly girl thing)

Flavia

While being happy with yourself is the most important thing of all, it's only natural to view passing as a major goal in transitioning. Humans are social animals, and the approval of others is a huge part of our nature. So while having personal peace is important, it would be fighting nature to not at least be the tiniest bit concerned with passing.

Quote from: Ann Onymous on September 16, 2011, 11:12:02 AM
I KNOW *what* TG stood for...some of us do not buy into the umbrella concept.  I also do not concur that it is a better term.  I never WAS and never WILL BE transgendered.  Many others feel the same (as evidenced by the many threads lately on the subject). 

I did not change my gender...what was changed was the sexual characteristics (and my diagnosis was also associated with a TRANSSEXUAL condition).

Alright! I'm sick and tired of this pointless bickering over TG vs TS. When you all get marginalized and driven back into the closet because you couldn't cooperate, don't blame me. Goodbye everyone.

Nothing like getting off topic...

Quote from: Bird on September 16, 2011, 09:53:09 AM
Well seriously.

Aside from you feeling anwkward with not passing, does it really matters to you and why?

  Yes, it matters to me. I don't have any problems passing BUT if i did i just don't know how i could do this. I mean yeah at the end of the day you're yourself and feel great and that's all that matters but if you can't leave your house without being laughed and starred at then whats the point? Those ts women that don't pass what so ever and still manage to put on a smile and walk out the door everyday...those women are my hero's.

Not caring about passing would make it a hell of a lot easier on the wallet. I mean, pre-op HRT, FFS, clothes, Make-Up... all of that could be rendered obsolete. Just SRS and post-op HRT seems a lot more affordable. Heck, you could even let go of that and convince yourself that there's at least one biological girl in the world born and living with a penis, so why should you get rid of yours? But then you realise you're back to where you started, and the only thing different is that you've started referring to yourself as a "she" rather than a "he". It makes you happy but everyone around you thinks you're deluded. Doesn't sound like a nice position to be in.

@Flavia

I'm Brazilian and am transitioning at a brazilian university.

Didn't read the whole text because I'm feeling lazy, but for me, it really is important to pass. I want to be as female as possible, and part of that is to be regarded as 110% female by everyone.

But really, this is all depending on the individual. Some are quite all right with absolutely NOT passing, and if they're happy, then it's good.

Well it is important to me too, I do post pictures in the Do I pass thread after all! I just don't think it is the center of my transition. I mean, even if I didn't pass at all, I would still transition.

Quote from: Bird on September 16, 2011, 02:55:48 PM
@Flavia

I'm Brazilian and am transitioning at a brazilian university.

Honestly, Im really glad so far you had few problems transitioning at the university in Brazil. One of the reasons that made me transition late in life was exactly the trans/homophobia among my classmates and later during my residency period... Most of people I have problems nowadays regarding pronouns or being treated as male are with the brazilians abroad, which makes me avoid them as much as I can (and this is because I have been full time 2 years!)

I'm going too much off topic here, so better stop, but I really hope the reality you are facing is the normal behavior  nowadays in Terra Brasilis

@Missf

Sent ya a PM so we can discuss our lil land If you don't mind.