Quote from: Julie Marie on October 21, 2011, 08:05:11 AM
On Forbes Top 100 wealthiest list, something like 30 of them made their billions in hedge funds, leveraged buyouts, banking, investments, brokerages and other non-producing ways.  Four of the top eleven are Waltons - Wal-Mart, which buys junk from China and sells it for a profit, also producing nothing. Outside of technology, there really isn't a lot on that list that made their billions producing something tangible. 

But every one of these billionaires needed the 99% to make them wealthy.  It doesn't take a lot to make people happy, you just have to give them something.  You can't take it all.

When I recall the stories coming out of Silicon Valley in its heyday, I think of all these people who went there, landed a job and became millionaires.  Obviously, their bosses had no problem sharing the wealth.  And when you see how many billionaires come from technology, it becomes apparent you can become a billionaire AND share the wealth with the people who work for you.

Wasn't there some parable about giving something and it coming back to you tenfold?

But as you may know, parables are not always what they may seem to be! If one was quoting the parables of Jesus, I believe one would be surprised that the 1% aren't the kindly benefactors they would seem. (see Parables As Subversive Speech: Jesus As Pedagogue of the Oppressed, By: William Herzog
Westminster John Knox Press / 1994 / Paperback)

And yes, now its the Silicon chip and oodles of "Code" that is driving the Technological Revolution, not Steel, Oil or the Automobile. Weaponry is a different story for its always in demand by someone.

The Walton's (not John Boy  ) revolutionized the retail industry, and are still out there grinding away.

Something tangible...think about it, the communications industry, that's tangible, brought to you by...Technology...what else?


"In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete."
― Richard Buckminster "Bucky" Fuller

Share holders of a company are the owners and thus entitled to it's profits. Employees are entitled to their wages and bonuses. Now, the great companies more often than not have a profit sharing or ESOP type plans for their workers. Also the vast majority of Americans at least indirectly own stocks thru their retirement funds. Even, especially, the public types.

WalMart. Don't shop there. In fact if all of us just paid a little more for domestic goods, we would begin to all but solve unemployment.

But what I find most offensive about these left-ist views is the everyone but me attitude. Everyone but me should work, pay taxes, suffer etc etc etc. Everyone else is too blame for my problems and short comings.
Therefore the left-ist feels they have the right to steal thru any means, the productivity of others. The left-"ist will gladly take free housing, food, medical, vacation etc etc etc... But a job? Heck who needs a job if their getting all that for free. But nothing is free, you stole it from someone else. Calling it taxes and fair is just a rationalization. RATIONing is more likely to occur.

Michelle, I do enjoy a brisk political discussion

I've had to rely on those programs, and they don't work. Well, food aid does. I think we converge on some points, but wildly differ on others, and I like it. Makes this a more colorful place.

Quote from: Michelle. on October 21, 2011, 05:29:36 PM
Share holders of a company are the owners and thus entitled to it's profits. Employees are entitled to their wages and bonuses. Now, the great companies more often than not have a profit sharing or ESOP type plans for their workers. Also the vast majority of Americans at least indirectly own stocks thru their retirement funds. Even, especially, the public types.

WalMart. Don't shop there. In fact if all of us just paid a little more for domestic goods, we would begin to all but solve unemployment.

But what I find most offensive about these left-ist views is the everyone but me attitude. Everyone but me should work, pay taxes, suffer etc etc etc. Everyone else is too blame for my problems and short comings.
Therefore the left-ist feels they have the right to steal thru any means, the productivity of others. The left-"ist will gladly take free housing, food, medical, vacation etc etc etc... But a job? Heck who needs a job if their getting all that for free. But nothing is free, you stole it from someone else. Calling it taxes and fair is just a rationalization. RATIONing is more likely to occur.

The leftist people i know are all hard workers and help others and are not greedy for themselves like most conservatives i know or have come in contact. Oh they might help their own kind if they have the extra but they are not ones to give to people they don't know. I know many leftist do give to people they don't know personally. The people you mention who do not want to work are people who were raised that way and i do not blame them because well that is how they were raised. Many conservatives ( i know) were raised to go after money and wealth over being caring people unless they have millions or are true christian like people. 

Amazon,
  Um.  I am a conservative, though unemployed since just before 9-11, ALL of my time and on other jobs since that time has been pro bono.  I am living off of my savings which includes investments that made a loss but the companies behind those are still around.  I did not invest in Enron or others like them because I saw them as they were, a large hollow shell. 
  I used to make fun of the Enron commercials that ran at that time and the end of the jingle was this instrumented voice that said "Enron" many times.  I would respond "Endaround, Endaround....  That was the way they got those many small contracts that looked good on paper, but was one of those things that choked them.  Just like the penny stock scandal before them in the late 80's.  This leads into a real life meeting of one who was under investigation. 
  I was repairing cell phones for the company I worked for in the late 80's when one day Barbara, the shop clerk, brought me a phone for a customer was waiting for up front.  I repaired the minor problem in the big heavy holster phone that was available then.  Then Barbara came back and said that she didn't like the customer, something about him.  I then looked at the repair ticket and said uh-oh!  The name on that ticket was Meyer Blinder.  I went up to the door and looked at the customer waiting area and identified him from a picture in the paper a few days earlier.  I told Barbara that the FBI has seized his assets and his penny stock business had been suspended and this snake will pay cash because he no longer had credit.
  I finished up the ticket and went up front with the phone and I made sure that it was paid for in cash.  His wife came in and paid for the repair.  As for Barbara, I never seen her scared like that.  She was a London war bride that survived the Axis bombings, nothing seem to faze her before.  Nice English accent. 
  Joelene

  Old article about Meyer Blinder:  http://www.microcapmarkets.com/penny-stocks/prince-of-penny-stocks.html

Quote from: Michelle. on October 21, 2011, 05:29:36 PM
Share holders of a company are the owners and thus entitled to it's profits. Employees are entitled to their wages and bonuses. Now, the great companies more often than not have a profit sharing or ESOP type plans for their workers. Also the vast majority of Americans at least indirectly own stocks thru their retirement funds. Even, especially, the public types.

WalMart. Don't shop there. In fact if all of us just paid a little more for domestic goods, we would begin to all but solve unemployment.

But what I find most offensive about these left-ist views is the everyone but me attitude. Everyone but me should work, pay taxes, suffer etc etc etc. Everyone else is too blame for my problems and short comings.
Therefore the left-ist feels they have the right to steal thru any means, the productivity of others. The left-"ist will gladly take free housing, food, medical, vacation etc etc etc... But a job? Heck who needs a job if their getting all that for free. But nothing is free, you stole it from someone else. Calling it taxes and fair is just a rationalization. RATIONing is more likely to occur.

Are U sure U R not leaning to the Left dispite your quasi-conservative prose? Against Wal-Mart? Gawd! Some Capitalist Robber Barron/Barroness U would be! ...

Or R U a Treasonist Conservative, given your "blasphemy" towards the Walton Dynasty? And don't say U don't shop at Wal-Mart, that's, that's...Un-American!

Quote from: Joelene9 on October 21, 2011, 07:23:03 PM
Amazon,
Just like the penny stock scandal before them in the late 80's.  This leads into a real life meeting of one who was under investigation. 
  I was repairing cell phones for the company I worked for in the late 80's when one day Barbara, the shop clerk, brought me a phone for a customer was waiting for up front.  I repaired the minor problem in the big heavy holster phone that was available then.  Then Barbara came back and said that she didn't like the customer, something about him.  I then looked at the repair ticket and said uh-oh!  The name on that ticket was Meyer Blinder.  I went up to the door and looked at the customer waiting area and identified him from a picture in the paper a few days earlier.  I told Barbara that the FBI has seized his assets and his penny stock business had been suspended and this snake will pay cash because he no longer had credit.
  I finished up the ticket and went up front with the phone and I made sure that it was paid for in cash.  His wife came in and paid for the repair.  As for Barbara, I never seen her scared like that.  She was a London war bride that survived the Axis bombings, nothing seem to faze her before.  Nice English accent. 
  Joelene

  Old article about Meyer Blinder:  http://www.microcapmarkets.com/penny-stocks/prince-of-penny-stocks.html

Sounds like he was related to Clinton Manges, who also reeked havoc in Texas, deal maker henchman for the Benson family (Lloyd Benson, Jr's father) that managed to get a $18million cash loan by verbal agreement from Seattle First Bank, reneged on it later and...B of A acquired SeaFirst...

So...what's the news from the Front?

Here's a link to OccupyWallStreet.org;

http://occupywallst.org/

Not as fun as bashing Liberals or Bloodsucking Capitalists!

Quote from: Amazon D on October 21, 2011, 06:12:43 PM
The leftist people i know are all hard workers and help others and are not greedy for themselves like most conservatives i know or have come in contact. Oh they might help their own kind if they have the extra but they are not ones to give to people they don't know. I know many leftist do give to people they don't know personally. The people you mention who do not want to work are people who were raised that way and i do not blame them because well that is how they were raised. Many conservatives ( i know) were raised to go after money and wealth over being caring people unless they have millions or are true christian like people.

You cannot get more lefty than China, wow ! You could not find a ssingle greedy leftyist in that workers paradise.

As for your true christian people all i can say is that I have seen their handy work in civilizing the Amazon indians. Whitin a generation of "accepting jesus" they lost their language and ability to live of the land, most males just become drunks and the females went into prostitution; but hey, they go to church every sunday, "praise the lord."

How much revenue we could make if we were to tax the churches across America ? I saw my ex-wife pastor the other day at the supermaket loading groceries into a brand new "Escalede." I said nice car ! He said: "Oh! it is not mine, it belongs to the church. Yeah, right, the car is drivin by him and his wife all the time, it is always parked outside his home.

Quote from: EmmaM on October 21, 2011, 06:02:05 PM
Michelle, I do enjoy a brisk political discussion

I've had to rely on those programs, and they don't work. Well, food aid does. I think we converge on some points, but wildly differ on others, and I like it. Makes this a more colorful place.

True, this is a great place.

Amazon. You got to be kidding me on liberal being more generous. Survey after survey show that conservatives give way more than liberals. Heck VP Biden and his wife give away a total of 6k a year on average. The hated Dick Cheney and his wife I believe give over a 100k a year.

I SHOP AT TARGE', thank you very much.

Finally. OWS age of innocence has ended. They have set an agenda, that runs days into the future!

Quote from: Michelle. on October 22, 2011, 12:46:33 AM
True, this is a great place.

Amazon. You got to be kidding me on liberal being more generous. Survey after survey show that conservatives give way more than liberals. Heck VP Biden and his wife give away a total of 6k a year on average. The hated Dick Cheney and his wife I believe give over a 100k a year.

I SHOP AT TARGE', thank you very much.

Finally. OWS age of innocence has ended. They have set an agenda, that runs days into the future!

See what i mean conservatives think in terms of amount while liberals think in terms of percentages.. I already said some rich conservatives give but they are rich so as jesus spoke about the poor widow who gave all she had compared to the rich man who gave more but it was only a fraction of what he had. Who then gave more !

Quote from: Michelle. on October 21, 2011, 05:29:36 PM
But what I find most offensive about these left-ist views is the everyone but me attitude. Everyone but me should work, pay taxes, suffer etc etc etc. Everyone else is too blame for my problems and short comings.
Therefore the left-ist feels they have the right to steal thru any means, the productivity of others. The left-"ist will gladly take free housing, food, medical, vacation etc etc etc... But a job? Heck who needs a job if their getting all that for free. But nothing is free, you stole it from someone else. Calling it taxes and fair is just a rationalization. RATIONing is more likely to occur.

You've just described about 1% of the population.  And I'm sure someone could say the opposite about the right and only be 1% correct.  The fact is there is more people in the middle than on both ends combined.  It's a Bell Curve.  And it's the people in the middle who have
...
lost their jobs
or
have seen their pay decrease against the cost of living
or
who have had to work longer hours for the same pay
or
who have watched their retirement money dwindle
or
who have seen their retirement vanish altogether
or
who have watched a lifetime of savings dwindle away
or
who have lost their homes
or
now own more on their home than it's worth
or
who have college debt equal to a mortgage
or
who now have to work two jobs to make ends meet. 

These are hard working people who never asked for a handout and now no longer have what they used to despite the fact they have done everything they can to make things work.  Now they are out of options. 

That's what the OWS movement is REALLY about.  That and identifying WHY we got where we are today and encouraging reversing the government actions that helped get us here in the first place.  And yes, it was government intervention into the existing tax laws, investment laws, banking laws and real estate laws that helped create this.  It was working and they "fixed" it.  Now they have to undo what they did.

The substantial shift in wealth that has occurred over the past 30 years has resulted in a stagnant economy because all that money that used to fuel the economy is now sitting in the mattresses of the uber-wealthy.  The so called job creators that the pro-wealthy/pro-corporation bills were supporting didn't create any jobs.  The corporations eliminated them and reaped the rewards.  Case in point: 2010 was a record year for corporate profits yet the unemployment rate was around 9%.  That record, hit in the third quarter of 2010, was preceded by seven consecutive quarters of growth at some of the fastest rates in history.  Remember the 2008 tax breaks corporations enjoyed?  You do the math.

The supporters of taxing the rich and the corporations, like they used to be taxed, are your every day Joe's, the ones who used to be referred to as the backbone of America but are now called lazy because they can't find a job.  The benefactors of the laws that got us here in the first place have done a great job spinning the truth so they can keep on enjoying their newfound mega-wealth.  Look at how the Koch brothers bought the Tea Party. 

I, for one, am not swallowing their BS.

Quote from: Jen61 on October 13, 2011, 06:38:13 PM
PS I work for your previous maters Tekla, and as long as I deliver the goods they do not give a s.. about my heels or my panties.

What woman wears heels and panties in this day and age? LMAO

There's a great article in the Wall Street Journal that, based on everything I have seen and even experienced myself, hits the nail on the head.

QuoteEven with unemployment hovering around 9%, companies are grousing that they can't find skilled workers, and filling a job can take months of hunting.

Employers are quick to lay blame. Schools aren't giving kids the right kind of training. The government isn't letting in enough high-skill immigrants. The list goes on and on.

But I believe that the real culprits are the employers themselves.

I can hear it now, "The employers are to blame?  It's not their fault you're a lazy bum!"

QuoteWith an abundance of workers to choose from, employers are demanding more of job candidates than ever before. They want prospective workers to be able to fill a role right away, without any training or ramp-up time. 

In other words, to get a job, you have to have that job already. It's a Catch-22 situation for workers—and it's hurting companies and the economy.

I know so many people who are hard workers, highly skilled and have the experience necessary to do the job but still can't find a job to meet those skills.  Employers don't want to pay them what they used to earn.  They want the talent, except at entry level pay. 

No wonder the corporations are doing so well. 

Hey Herman Cain!  Tell us about that 9% corporation tax plan again!

Julie,

When you say "experienced yourself", have you been to the "protests" in what ever area that you live?

In an earlier post I talked about being there and talking to "the regulars" but I wouldn't consider that being an active participant.  But, in reference to my statement above, I'm talking about the expectations employers have of job candidates.  It's kind of like, "I'm looking for a Ferrari for the price of a Yugo."  When I was out of work and couldn't get anything from the union hall, I'd put out resumes, get responses, go on interviews and land a job.  Sometimes I wondered what was wrong with the people who complained about finding a job.  For me, it was easy.

In the last few years, I've found jobs online that fit me like a glove.  My resume reads like their requirements.  I figured I was a shoe in.  I'd apply and never hear a peep.  And I highly doubt they knew my past.  I was even careful not to mention the year I graduated from college and to reduce the number of years experience so they couldn't use that to figure out my age.  Still - zilch.  My partner Julie has submitted hundreds upon hundreds of resumes, far more than me and she can't get a bite either.  In her field, her resume is pretty impressive.  Still, nothing.  My daughter has steadily worked since junior year in high school, has an MBA from a prestigious college and graduated cum laude.  She's working for a health club making about 30K/yr. because she can't find a real job.

Those are some of my personal experiences and one of the reasons I feel OWS is a good thing.  In my 60 years on this earth, I've never seen anything like this.  At one end you've got employers who want something for nothing and at the other end hard working talented people who have to settle for far less than the previous generations got.  The record profits corporates have been enjoying tell you pretty much all you need to know about what's going on. 

This video is at times scary but it tells a tale as to how we got where we are today.

One Of The Biggest Reasons People Are Mad Enough To Protest In One Eye-Opening Clip


http://front.moveon.org/one-of-the-biggest-reasons-people-are-mad-enough-to-protest-in-one-eye-opening-clip/?rc=fb.fan



The Story of Citizens United v. FEC (2011)


front.moveon.org
It's often referred to simply as Citizens United and it's unleashed an electoral monster on society.

The winter weather will shut them down. We will have to wait and see if they start up again in the Spring.

That could be interesting. You guys could block GOP primary voting places.

Quote from: Michelle. on October 25, 2011, 11:19:45 PM
The winter weather will shut them down. We will have to wait and see if they start up again in the Spring.

That could be interesting. You guys could block GOP primary voting places.

Yes, the President will be in town for his student loan debt speech and the first heavy snowstorm of the season is falling now.  The main news around here is what a mess it is going to be for the morning rush! 
Joelene