Quote from: article
When you know someone who's undergone sex-reassignment surgery, the possibility of regret may feel like the proverbial elephant in the room. But what is the prevalence of regret, and why does regret occur?

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With all the resources available today, the HBSOC, the DSM, the therapy sessions, the hormone regimens, the real life experience, I really can't imagine how anyone could regret their SRS/transition in this day and age.   

tink

:: whew ::

What is THAT from?

I am older than dirt, and in all of my years, I have never, ever met a single soul, male, female, or whatever, that regretted anything they had done surgically. I think the story of the post-op person that freaks out because they had irreversable surgery is not just an anomally -- I think it is a fable, of urban myth proportions!

I think that you are more likely to find the holy grail than to actually find this one person that is sorry for what they did to change themselves.

On the other hand, if you want to find people that regret surgeries they have had, look no further than your local IS person. Of course,THOSE surgeries were chosen for them.

So, on the one hand you have no one that chose their surgery feeling the slightest twinge of regret, but on the other you have ALL of these people that are angry about the surgeries that were chosen for them. So, the next time you think the medical establishment is on your side, think again.

:: Grrrrrr ::

Yup!  Grrrrr is my reaction as well.  The only people who "have regretted their SRS/transition" are these, but let's keep in mind that these people transitioned "ages" ago when there wasn't the kind of support system there is today.

Personally I have not heard any "recent" regrets either, and by "recent" I mean people who transitioned or had SRS "in the last decade or so"


tink

Why do they keep dragging that old horse out?  Stories of transsexuals who transition and later regret it seem to be so prevalent they've entered the urban legend category.  Back in the 90's Kate Bornstein was on a Giraldo Rivera show about regretful transsexuals (she said she was there for 'balance', as on of the 'happy transsexuals.')

I'm certain there's the occasional regretful transitioner. but I think the true incidence is far below what is suggested by the number of times this 'issue' surfaces.

Karen

Could it be that our beloved Renee Richards is looking for fame?  > Let's remember that she was used to it when she was a tennis player and all that scandal surfaced because of her SRS.

tink

<SNARK>

Quote from: Tink on March 13, 2007, 10:38:41 PM
Could it be that our beloved Renee Richards is looking for fame?  >

</SNARK>



-K

Well, she does want to make some money on her book. But she has not said that she regrets transitioning has she? 

I've never met anyone who has regretted transitioning either.

My recollection is that Renee Richards, in her book, said that she was "obssesed" with transitioning and that there was no way of avoiding it.  I don't recall her saying that she was "happy" about transitioning but, rather, it was simply something that needed to be done.

I'm in that camp, also.  As a post-op (since 1999), I would never tell anyone that I was "happy" about transitioning but rather that it was something I needed to do, like breathing.  "Happy" puts too much of a cheerful slant on it and I think it may mislead some who transition into thinking that there is some nirvanna or Shangri-la at the end of being post-op.

The world is far too bigotted for me to ever be truly "happy" about my decision.  I will always wonder, as Renee Richards wrote in her autobiography, why I felt compelled to do it.  She, despite her knowledge of medicine, couldn't explain it and neither can I.  That said, I would never go back -- that male growth was abhorrant to me.  In that sense, being post-op is a success.  There is NO REGRET about what I am now, anatomically.  Unfortunately, I have to live in the world and I get sad when I read about other post-op TS's having difficulty.  Added to that, I've faced discrimination even after being post-op.  Being post-op is, unfortunately, like becoming part of a group that many in the world hate.  So, even if my personal life is going along well, I feel sadness about the bigotted world.  Transitioning, for me, hasn't ended that sadness.  As the philosopher Dunne said, I am not an island.  "Don't ask for whom the bell tolls.  It tolls for thee."  When bad sh**t happens to others, it hits me.  It feels like a personal insult or assault, even though it's not directed at me. 

I'm glad that others who are post-op find it to be an "urban myth" that there are unhappy post-ops.  Psychology sessions in transitioning help in dealing with a bigotted world but, of course, there's no way to stop the hate.  Like the AAA adage suggests, we have to ignore things we can't do anything about.  For me, the operation relieved gender dysphoria but there is, unfortunately, no escaping the unhappiness that the world can shovel our way.  Caveat emptor, buyer beware.

Teri Anne

Teri,

This is a powerful post.  You've put into words the feelings I've had from time to time.  I have no regret for doing what I had to do. I do hate what I've had to go through to do it.... and then put up with all of the little nasty stuff after the fact. There will always be discrimination in our liftime I'm afraid Teri.  Perhaps the next generation will have it a bit easier.

Recently, my daughter wrote that she was sure that I "couldn't be happier" in a sarcastic way. Not only is it difficult for us to be happy but the world works against us as if to say that we have a responsibility to be miserable and guilty for the rest of our lives. I know that sounds negative but it is a heavy timber to lift from time to time.

Cindi

Quote from: Cindi Jones on March 13, 2007, 11:49:38 PM
Well, she does want to make some money on her book. But she has not said that she regrets transitioning. 

I've never met anyone who has regretted transitioning either. I

She describes herself as "merely someone who was miscast for Sex Change; a frustrated and terrible misguided ->-bleeped-<-"

Quote from: Dr. Richards"I wish that there could have been an alternative way, but there wasn't in 1975. If there was a drug that I could have taken that would have reduced the pressure, I would have been better off staying the way I was -- a totally intact person. I know deep down that I'm a second-class woman. I get a lot of inquiries from would-be transsexuals, but I don't want anyone to hold me out as an example to follow. Today there are better choices, including medication, for dealing with the compulsion to crossdress and the depression that comes from gender confusion. As far as being fulfilled as a woman, I'm not as fulfilled as I dreamed of being. I get a lot of letters from people who are considering having this operation...and I discourage them all.
I say that you'd better get on Prozac or any other medication available, or get locked up or do whatever it takes to keep you from being allowed to do something like it."

http://www.realityresources.com/reneerichards.htm

I've always perceived her as someone who wasn't sure about her gender identity

If no people entering therapy and wanting SRS would not later regret it there would be no need for SOC.

Thus we have therapy dividing people into the categories that get/don't get SRS. However therapists are human and do make mistakes from time to time. Also in many cases the best interest of a TS person is not to tell everything (as that may slow things considerably down). Thus we have limited communication and therapists that are not perfect. Mistakes may happen.

Hmmm.  I don't think that I can agree with this part of your POV.

QuoteThus we have therapy dividing people into the categories that get/don't get SRS. However therapists are human and do make mistakes from time to time.

I have always been of the opinion that a therapist is only there to advise you as to your options. You and I make all the decisions, so if there is a "mistake" made, than it falls on us, not the therapist. As I always say, if you don't care for what your therapist is telling you, get a second opinion. If the second opinion is the same as the first, maybe you or I need to reassess our position.

I feel like RR was simply too vested in the security of her previously male-centered world. She was a doctor, a person of means, and trained in a field that garners great respect. She went from that place, to accepting and embracing a diagnosis that deemed her mentally unbalanced, lost her practice, her social standing, and her income. So, my guess is that she is lamenting the loss of security and respect, that she would have never had if she had grown up as a woman. If you never had it, you don't miss it. Woman and men are still treated very differently in this society.

I'm sure the book deal has helped her survive, but it can't replace the self-esteem she lost when her medical career went into the dumper. Plus she had her private life dragged out into the open for everyone to review and comment on. She may as well have written the book at that point, because if she hadn't, someone would probably have dragged out all her personal info eventually anyway. Can you imagine the commotion if this would have happened during the 90's, with Geraldo, and Jerry, and all the others during sweeps month?

Thank Goddess I never watch network t.v. anymore.

I digress. Let me try to stop myself from veering off yet another thread. What I am alluding to, is that "they" are always trying to infer that someone will change their sex and then regret it later. But, it seems that the only regret I can recall anyone lamenting has to do with a loss of social standing from switching their gender role.

Can anyone else find a more motivating reason why gender reassignment surgery and gender role reversal should be treated completely separately by the therapy community?

To me, SRS and switching my gender role didn't just mean a loss of social standing.  It was crueler than that.  It was, as Renee Richards wrote, that she became not just a woman but a "second-class woman."  I went from making $80,000 a year to now looking for minimum wage jobs (and am facing discrimination with even that goal).  Most of us know of this possibility before committing to SRS but its definitely a different experience to live it.  Yes, the RLT is designed to inform us of this reality but being a post-op TS can be like a rock on the shore.  Eventually, the sandy waves crashing against us year after year can have a dissolving effect.

I'm glad for those who feel totally happy with their post-op lives and are able to dismiss (as they should) cultural bigotry.  They say that adversity makes all people stronger.  Don't count on it.  I know I'm having a bad week but I don't think transitioning should be considered a panacea.  Renee Richards is right -- If you can find another way out, do it.  After transitioning, if you have good friends, family and a good job, anything is tolerable.  If you don't, you feel those waves crashing, over and over...

For some of us, though we try to stand tall, we note that our feet are subtly becoming sand.  I worry that my stress by cultural bigotry and self-inflicted self-hatred will end my life through an early heart attack or stroke.  I told my ex that I was happy, in a sense, that she wasn't around to see my downfall in person and that I knew, from the beginning, the possibility that she had hitched herself to a falling star.  Moving from Los Angeles to Washington state hasn't ended my unemployment.  As I mentioned in another post, my former (male) name is known by the INFORMATION AGENCIES who do background checks.  There are millions of these agencies so moving north hasn't given me the new life I sought.  Whenever bad things happen to me, I want to crawl into a corner.  I know I have enough money to live a long modest life without working (I'm 55).  I find myself, from time to time, wishing for that heart attack.  Unlike suicide, I wouldn't be blamed.  People who know me wouldn't take on blame or guilt.  I have no guts to commit suicide but do, in my sad moments, wish for closure.  Anything to stop the pain.

A word of advice to pre-ops.  Consider transitioning thoroughly if you have a thin skin like mine.

Teri Anne

In some countries the only option for second options is to move to an another country. Thus when looking at people wanting SRS  "therapists decide" is the case.

Of course things are better in many countries, but those usually have more financial burdens associated with the process.

Teri,

Although I know you are having a very difficult time, I'm glad that you are brave enough to broach this subject.  We, as a group, really hate to deal with this much less mention the possibility that it exists. I have had a very difficult time along these lines in my work history. There were a few companies I worked for that eventually were able to drive me out after finding out about my past. Since we are prone to depression in the first place, dealing with this seems overwhelming.

Your advice is sound. Consider this thoroughly before you move forward.

I can only tell you to keep trying hon. There are other companies. Not all of them will perform background checks. It is just a little too expensive and it is a pain. Look for another opportunity and another until you find your place. Or you can do what I did and start your own business.  I also do volunteer work which is very satisfying.

Chin up Teri.

Cindi

Thanks, Cindi, for cheering me up.  It's funny how shared circumstances can make you feel better.  Your advice mirrors the advice of my best friend:  do volunteer work, go to smaller companies (where they hopefully don't do background checks) and think about starting my own business.

I know some in this room will think (even if they don't post it) that I somehow slipped through the cracks and should not have been allowed the SRS operation.  I assure you that, even if I were on an island by myself, there has always been something instinctual in feeling that the male appendage did not belong on me.  I feel better in the shower.

I know that when I get a job that I'll feel happier.  That is my nature, from my teenage years 'till now.

"Transsexual regret?"  For me, even with all the pitfalls, there was no CHOICE about it.  It had to be done.

Teri Anne

Thank you for your posts, Teri Anne. I can see this but so often it is easy to push aside the facts of the world-as-it-is, in an effort to relieve a lifetime of misery. Existence is suffering. Period. As several write lately, transitioning is a way to keep from that walk in the woods, for some. I keep wondering about working enough to make ends meet, get a little place in the woods, keep to myself until the elephant comes to sit on my chest. Sounds like giving up, though. There is enough fight in me to have a few more big battles, but I better pick them wisely. Maybe things can be better for my sons and daughters down the road. I keep fighting transitioning, even as I prepare for it. Happier in some ways, no doubt, more trouble and storms in other ways, no doubt. Sigh. I keep reading Chinese poetry from the 8th century.. it talks of why fight the battles.. sit.. enjoy what is now. The world will keep going, whirling around in absurd comedies. Keep your mind clear. Sage advice.. I try to follow, and yet it keeps swirling me onward. Had a dream 2 days ago that I was shot and killed by someone at work (it's a possibility), and reborn as a beautiful little girl.. the feeling of being comfortable in my own body was staggering. But in the end, I don't want to return. ok.. /ramble off
Blessings, Tara

I have about as much respect for a transsexual that regrets surgery as Reverend Ted Haggard who regrets thinking he was gay and having a five year affair with a gay prostitute and drug dealer. Poor Ted. So tricked by the system and the temptation of lucious, sinful and delicious gay sex.

Please.

Bri

Quote from: Yvonne on March 14, 2007, 01:55:05 AM


She describes herself as "merely someone who was miscast for Sex Change; a frustrated and terrible misguided ->-bleeped-<-"

that's what "she" is, a confused ->-bleeped-<- who underwent grs for the wrong reasons.

I am not sure people have regrets about SRS but I do think they can have regrets about the repercussions of their surgery.  I read lots of guilt stories between married couples and the conclusion of loving relationships.

This site has shown me the stupidity of making decisions in a vacuum.  I am guilty as charged.  But it seems about as plausible as 300 Spartans holding off the Persian army for days as to get SRS in a vacuum.  I am sure history has at least one transexual regret!

Transexuals probably lost a whole bunch of important things before SRS.  Losing your job, spouse, children, friends, church, faith are all possibilities if one changes their gender.  The repercussions probably take more healing than SRS.

However Tink I love the topic!

I have been ultra serious today and probably have left numerous folks in tears.  All of a sudden I feel ultra silly.  Do you know of any good magicians because I would need a lot more than a good surgeon?

W