Not that there's anything wrong with going to college...I went for a few years.

Probably should have gone for a few more then.  The argument you want to make, but failed to is this: though insanely promiscuous sex is rampant in both the homo and hetro-sexual cultures, the homosexual sub-culture made it much more open, public and accessible part of the culture - and thus, highly visible -  then it is in the heterosexual culture where it tends to the down-low, QT and behind-closed-doors style and is invisible to the general population.

So it's seen, especially to the casual observer that the gay culture is much more promiscuous, that may - or may not - be the reality.

Two major reasons:

1. Simply because many ts women lived as gay men earlier in their lives.

2. Deliberately changing behavior and personality is something that most people are not willing to do, even transgendered people.

Quote from: Graverobber9 on October 26, 2011, 04:09:48 PM
Two major reasons:

1. Simply because many ts women lived as gay men earlier in their lives.

2. Deliberately changing behavior and personality is something that most people are not willing to do, even transgendered people.

2. FTW

You still retain your previous personality. But the other argument could be that a lot of society considers us gay men drag queens with hormonally grown boobs. Rather than fighting it, others have embraced the stereotype.

hell if I know.....maybe they're drama queens?

 
     I'm not even gonna touch this one lol.

Quote from: tekla on October 26, 2011, 03:51:34 PM
Not that there's anything wrong with going to college...I went for a few years.

Probably should have gone for a few more then.

  That was uncalled for. - 1 


   

Bring this back on topic and stop the personal insults or the topic will be locked.

Quote from: original postI use to be friends with another ts and I could never understand her behavior. All I know is that it reminded me of the way some gay men act.

For example, when we use to go out cruising in the car, she would roll down her window and start yelling at guys and say. "hey baby, i'm horny" or some sleazy comment like that. She was always VERY obnoxious and loud. Her mannerisms are also very exaggerated.

She flirts with almost every man she comes in contact with and has even performed oral sex to a complete stranger in front of a nightclub for the public to see.

The reason I compare her to some gay men is because I've seen a lot of them who act the same way. I don't understand how she expects people to view her as a woman acting the way she does.

What could it be?

Does she drink allot of booze?

Because it's funny.

Gotta agree with Wonderdyke on this one.  The stereotype came around because those are the most visible kind of gay guys, not because they are the only ones.  It's the same reason the vocal minority in any community is thought to be far larger than it really is: high visibility.  For every promiscuous gay guy being obnoxiously out and proud, there is another who stays away from all the noise and lives with their partner in a monogamous relationship.

If anything Mahsa, living in the Castro would have swayed your point of view a lot.  Of course you would know tons of gay guys like that because social gay people flock there to socialize.  But I bet you never met or even saw those who stayed away from that aspect of the community.

To answer the question posed by the title: my best guess is "old habits die hard" or "that's just the way they are."  I know a girl like that personally, and tbh she seems to annoy the bejeezus out of everyone.

Quote from: Wonderdyke on October 26, 2011, 03:18:31 PM
I used to identify as a gay male, but thanks for making an assumption about me.

You're welcome.

QuoteThis, this, and this a thousand times over.  Your experiences identifying as a gay male do not constitute every gay male's experience ever.  That's reductionist and insulting.

Please quote where I said my experience living as a gay male was EVERY gay male's experience.

QuoteJust because Jen makes a valid point (that certain transsexual women that she knows act like certain gay men that she knows, something that I am not debating) doesn't mean that I think she's framing it in anything approximating a respectful manner (for either the trans women or the gay men).  I'm contesting her use of "gay men" as a stereotype for promiscuity, and taking issue with the fact that she presents it in a manner that demonizes a female acting as a forward or dominant potential sexual partner (which borders dangerously close to slut-shaming).

How the hell should I have "framed it" or "presented it", according to you? If you don't like it, move on to the next thread. I don't see how anything you've said answers my original question.

Quote from: cynthialee on October 26, 2011, 05:25:28 PM
Does she drink allot of booze?

If you consider once or twice every weekend a lot, then yes.

other drugs?

Quote from: cynthialee on October 26, 2011, 06:45:43 PM
other drugs?

Not that I'm aware of. Why do you ask?

Quote from: JenJen2011 on October 26, 2011, 06:36:51 PM
You're welcome.

Please quote where I said my experience living as a gay male was EVERY gay male's experience.

How the hell should I have "framed it" or "presented it", according to you? If you don't like it, move on to the next thread. I don't see how anything you've said answers my original question.

Do you want me to validate your anecdotally-"proven" wrongheaded stereotypes?  I didn't answer your question because I found the question to be offensive at baseline.

"Some AMAB transsexuals" do not behave like "gay men" (note that neither is a monolith, hence the scare quotes).  Some of these transsexuals may have formerly identified as gay men and continue to act the way that they used to when they identified as such (which may be a way that other gay men have acted), but like I've said: there's no archetypal gay male, and so these trans people are acting like themselves, not "like gay men".

I'm not here because I "like your thread".  I'm here because I'm trying to fight what I see to be misrepresentative and harmful to both transsexual females and gay males.

It has to do with male and female subjective consciousness. The male objective consciousness on sexuality is visual oriented, whereas in the female it is emotional ly oriented. If a male is interested in male or female, it is easy to turn on visually alone as there is no need for emotional involvement. This ease on getting involved sexually translate as promiscuity, it is the stereotype for cis-male both straight or guy, differ only in their object, i.e. male or female. For MTF behaving indecently or promiscuously in public is due to this male consciousness that is still latent. No doubt, some cis-male can behave decently and faithful to a partner, but these are rare cases, the fact is male response to opportunities, if they are more opportunities to meet their objects, and they have the qualities that attract their objects, then opportunity will not allow them to be decent and faithful. In case of MTF with the latent male consciousness who become more attractive to male, then the condition will allow them to be promiscuous.

The female objective consciousness has a filtering mechanism, it seek security as well as emotional feelings, so the object has to be able to fulfill these requirements before she can open herself to the relationship. So female consciousness != male consciousness, and this difference exists as stereotypes of the two groups (male and female consciousness whether it is in the cis-male, gay or MTF). Lesbians have female-consciousness (thus more emotionally oriented and faithful to their partner), even FTM carry this latent tendencies (but successful FTM may adapt to the male culture and completely changed their subjective consciousness).

Whereas the female subjective consciousness is highly self-conscious, i.e. care about gracefulness, decency and morality in self behaviour, speech, looks, etc.  Thus this consciousness expresses motherhood in the female, it opposed to behaviour can be potentially attract harm to their children through indecent, and promiscuous behaviour. Successful MTF should be able to adapt to this female consciousness which prepared them to be good mothers (though they may not be one naturally).

In response to this whole thread:

"It happened to me twice and her twice, therefore it must be true for everyone everywhere" is not a valid argument and I hope simplifying it like that helps you to see how/why.

Quote from: Jacelyn on October 26, 2011, 07:16:09 PM
It has to do with male and female subjective consciousness. The male objective consciousness on sexuality is visual oriented, whereas in the female it is emotional ly oriented. If a male is interested in male or female, it is easy to turn on visually alone as there is no need for emotional involvement. This ease on getting involved sexually translate as promiscuity, it is the stereotype for cis-male both straight or guy, differ only in their object, i.e. male or female. For MTF behaving indecently or promiscuously in public is due to this male consciousness that is still latent. No doubt, some cis-male can behave decently and faithful to a partner, but these are rare cases, the fact is male response to opportunities, if they are more opportunities to meet their objects, and they have the qualities that attract their objects, then opportunity will not allow them to be decent and faithful. In case of MTF with the latent male consciousness who become more attractive to male, then the condition will allow them to be promiscuous.

The female consciousness has a filtering mechanism, it seek security as well as emotional feelings, so the object has to be able to fulfill these requirements before she can open herself to the relationship. So female consciousness != male consciousness, and this difference exists as stereotypes of the two groups (male and female consciousness whether it is in the cis-male, gay or MTF). Lesbians have female-consciousness (thus more emotionally oriented and faithful to their partner), even FTM carry this latent tendencies (but successful FTM may adapt to the male culture and completely changed their subjective consciousness).

No.  I do not carry "latent male tendencies", and promiscuity on the part of transsexual females is not a "latent male tendency".  Likewise, an emotionally-oriented transsexual male is not indulging in "latent female tendencies".

(This does sound suspiciously like an evo-devo psychological perspective, which I've spent the last two weeks passionately arguing against in my developmental psychology class.  The weight of evidence regarding sex differences in jealousy and sexual response supports some aspects of the double-shot hypothesis, but I think that the discrepancy noted in this hypothesis points to socialized gender role differentiation.)

I thought we had moved past the assumption that we're all this exotic mix of male and female.

Old habits really do die hard. You can take the flaming gay man out of a club and turn him into a beautiful woman, but you can't always keep that gay man from dropping in from time to time. I've seen it happen in a few of my friends, many, many times. I think it some cases it sort of evolves into it's own little subculture, because a lot of the have their own form of slang and phrases ( certain phrases that i've adopted into my own vocabulary, because I think it's fun to use among my fellow sisters, haha.) And I think I know exactly who Amy is talking about and I am going to have to agree with ya, girly!

Also, not to offend Wonderdyke but she kind of reminds me of the blonde girl in this comic! http://transgirldiaries.com/?p=1842 

Quote from: Wonderdyke on October 26, 2011, 07:36:27 PM
No.  I do not carry "latent male tendencies", and promiscuity on the part of transsexual females is not a "latent male tendency".  Likewise, an emotionally-oriented transsexual male is not indulging in "latent female tendencies".

Rather than apprehending their differences, you equate them nonetheless. This only lead to explaning things away, but without having pointed out the main reasons. Also this sexuality consciousness, it differed due to be male and female forms. Female is beautiful/attractive, male is not, this is universal (regardless of sexual orientation). Why would  the attactive (female) being attracted to the unattractive (male)? Answer: It doesn't, but has to do with the emotional and biological demand latent in the female subjective consciousness toward an object. For a female to want sex with any person regardless of the filtering mechanism of consciousness is strictly a male consciousness. Since the unattractive (male) simply attract to an object which it find attractive (i.e. man for gay, woman for straight male).

In other words, the male consciousness is object-dependent (he doesn't care about himself but care about the object he is interested in), whereas the female consciousness is subject-dependent (she cares about herself feelings more, and the object she would be interested has to be able to direct the attention back to herself).

Quote from: Jacelyn on October 26, 2011, 08:04:37 PM
Female is beautiful/attractive, male is not, this is universal (regardless of sexual orientation).

You must not have heard of ancient Greece?

Notions of what it means to be male and what it means to be female, and all that entails, are socially constructed by societies. Gender is not a cultural universal.