Quote from: Amazon D on October 21, 2011, 11:36:48 AM
Don't hate the haters.. it makes you just like them..

She's right, and yet my anger remains...it's quite a predicament. Maybe I can find solace in the fact that these feminists are on the outside fringe rather than a representative sample?

I think this is why writers like bell hooks say that we shouldnt call ourselves "feminists", because then anyone can speak for the so-called movement and bend it to their whim (or have their words used as en example of all feminist thought), rather we should say "I advocate feminism" as an ideology of equality.

There was a famous feminist in the 70's (forgive me for not remembering her name, I was born in the 80's and this is just what I've read) who wrote a diatribe about how transwomen were basically committing rape by appropriating the female form without having gone through female hardship.

And the most hurtful flak I've gotten as a transman has come from feminist friends. Some of them see what I'm doing as betrayal, and as a decision. To some of them it looks like I'm just caving to male superiority and trying to get ahead any way I can. That's not true. I'm just incorrectly gendered, and any political implications are just happenstance.

I still consider myself a feminist, whether other feminists accept me or not. Even if I am a man, I'm not going to stop recognizing the gender inequality that exists.

Lol they hat us all.

Hatting is sometimes necessary but hating rarely ever is. I'm sure a lot of people here, myself included, have experienced some level of hate from feminists (or even masculinists for that matter!). You be not alone, OP.

Quote from: Felix on October 29, 2011, 12:59:27 AM
There was a famous feminist in the 70's...

That's infamous.

The Transsexual Empire: The Making of the She-Male (1979) - Janice G. Raymond * Amazon * WorldCat

Quote from: Felix on October 29, 2011, 12:59:27 AM
There was a famous feminist in the 70's (forgive me for not remembering her name, I was born in the 80's and this is just what I've read) who wrote a diatribe about how transwomen were basically committing rape by appropriating the female form without having gone through female hardship.

They do have a point though. Cause a large group of transwoman were completely normal functioning men before transition (and even after I dare say).

Not going to be loved by saying this.

Quote from: Sibila on October 29, 2011, 04:48:33 PM
They do have a point though. Cause a large group of transwoman were completely normal functioning men before transition (and even after I dare say).

Not going to be loved by saying this.

The way it's described is just atrocious. Maybe if it were a little more mature, people would actually give it some thought -- no matter how stupid it actually is. I mean, really? Committing rape by transitioning from male to female? That is both a generalization and a stretch, not to mention an incredibly ridiculous thing to say... to be honest.

Quote from: Sibila on October 29, 2011, 04:48:33 PM
They do have a point though. Cause a large group of transwoman were completely normal functioning men before transition (and even after I dare say).

Not going to be loved by saying this.

Alright. I'll suspend the torrents of rage flowing through me for your claiming that this point is valid and hear you out instead. Exactly how is a transwoman committing rape by assuming a female form? What makes such a claim true? The absence of "female hardship" (whatever the hell THAT means)?

Quote from: Sibila on October 29, 2011, 04:48:33 PM
They do have a point though. Cause a large group of transwoman were completely normal functioning men before transition (and even after I dare say).

Not going to be loved by saying this.

Well if we were normal and functioning as men then why didn't we stay there? I know i couldn't keep playing a part that i actually couldn't play very well at all. It seems to me your giving us a benifit we never experienced. I always wished i could be like many other men but as much as i tried, i failed miserably. However, i will give you one and that is i didn't feel like many females who wanted to be with men intimately. So even as a runaway teen (with my long blonde hair and smooth hairless face) (in early 70's) living in southern humboldt county Calif on a commune called HOKAHEY (a gay / lesbian commune) i had my first sexual experience with a lesbian woman named Mary who treated me as a  female / girl  and didn't force me to use that part between my legs. So goes my manly life humph  Oh yea that was after i had ran away from home because i was put away in haverford state mental hospital for wearing womens clothes (which were my older sisters hand me downs) and i dare not go back to jr high for fear of retribution. Oh there in haverford i met my neighbor who was there for being gay. He did like men. That was the late 60's. It took a while (2 decades) until GID clinics accepted those of us who didn't like men and allowed us to transition. yea what a real functioning life i had. So today i take care of my 88 yr old mother because she was the only one who accepted me and that was because she was a bio-chemist and knew that when she took a hormone to prevent miscarrying me that it altered me inutero because she just lost twin hermaphrodite babies the year before i was born in the 50's. Oh the catholic doctor told her they died at birth and she was lucky but she actually thought he snuffed them out because the doctor didn't know what box (male or female) to put them in back in the mid 50's. Yes you know all the background of so many of us later transitioners. Yepper we all had normal functioning male lives..   

Sibila has to be trolling.

And thanks Renate, that's exactly who I was thinking of.

Amazon, this drug http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol has been linked to trans situations in both animals and people. I assume that's the one you're referring to. I wish there was more good research on these kinds of fetal influences, so people would finally stop saying this is a lifestyle choice.

Quote from: FullMoon19 on March 29, 2011, 07:27:21 PM
there is one feminist that definately does hate transwomen, and she's been mentioned here before "she's stolen ftm pics on here and talks about how it's a mistake for them to be transitioning. i think it comes from their idea of "female superiority," and thinking that transwomen are not "real women," but just men who are trying to be women, and disgrace their name. it's weird though. feminists seem to be masculine in their behaviour, by trying to prove they are men's equals. lots of them are what you call "butch lesbians," and they identify as female, yet act very masculine in behaviour. they think men are the enemy for the most part, so they take a transwoman as a disgrace to womanhood.

I just read some of her stuff and now I want to throw something at her. She takes pictures from here?

She has in the past.
But mainly she mines youtube for FTM transition videos.
But note that she only chooses the boi's that are the most innately fem. She has never shown some of the butch guys videos, that would discredit her paradim that only females who are trying to escape hyper femininity transition into men. According to her no true butches ever transition.

(yes I read Ms Bakers blogg, to keep an eye on her)

Lol. I watched her videos on youtube and made some not so nice comments. Good thing I don't upload videos.

Quote from: The Passage on October 29, 2011, 04:57:39 PM
The way it's described is just atrocious. Maybe if it were a little more mature, people would actually give it some thought -- no matter how stupid it actually is. I mean, really? Committing rape by transitioning from male to female? That is both a generalization and a stretch, not to mention an incredibly ridiculous thing to say... to be honest.

Well I did not use those words.
But honestly...I DO believe a lot of transwoman that are like "men becoming woman" instead of "woman becoming themselves" screw up the standards of care and understanding of the problems of transwoman in general. I am not trolling.

I have heard many woman say feel and think the same way about transwoman. As a matter of fact... there have been quite a few times that people confided in me that they met this other transwoman and because of her behavior and way of thinking they just were not able to see them as woman.
Mind you, this had NOTHING to do with looks... as a matter of fact one of those woman is blind! She said her energy just felt masculine in every way.

The trauma of being born in the wrong body is overshadowed by those transwoman who had normal functioning lives as males and at the same time claim they were better able to act like a men and adjust, while their creativity has always been limited to football and cars (and even talking bad about woman with their mates).

Quote from: Amazon D on October 29, 2011, 05:57:18 PM
Well if we were normal and functioning as men then why didn't we stay there? I know i couldn't keep playing a part that i actually couldn't play very well at all. It seems to me your giving us a benifit we never experienced. I always wished i could be like many other men but as much as i tried, i failed miserably. However, i will give you one and that is i didn't feel like many females who wanted to be with men intimately. So even as a runaway teen (with my long blonde hair and smooth hairless face) (in early 70's) living in southern humboldt county Calif on a commune called HOKAHEY (a gay / lesbian commune) i had my first sexual experience with a lesbian woman named Mary who treated me as a  female / girl  and didn't force me to use that part between my legs. So goes my manly life humph  Oh yea that was after i had ran away from home because i was put away in haverford state mental hospital for wearing womens clothes (which were my older sisters hand me downs) and i dare not go back to jr high for fear of retribution. Oh there in haverford i met my neighbor who was there for being gay. He did like men. That was the late 60's. It took a while (2 decades) until GID clinics accepted those of us who didn't like men and allowed us to transition. yea what a real functioning life i had. So today i take care of my 88 yr old mother because she was the only one who accepted me and that was because she was a bio-chemist and knew that when she took a hormone to prevent miscarrying me that it altered me inutero because she just lost twin hermaphrodite babies the year before i was born in the 50's. Oh the catholic doctor told her they died at birth and she was lucky but she actually thought he snuffed them out because the doctor didn't know what box (male or female) to put them in back in the mid 50's. Yes you know all the background of so many of us later transitioners. Yepper we all had normal functioning male lives..   

Hi I did not say all of them are that way. There are transwoman that are only into men who were and are normal GAY males. Sexual preference has little to do with this.
In my opinion the vast majority of transwoman are more like "men becoming woman" as opposed to "woman becoming themselves".

I only met a few transwoman that were really feminine from the inside out the moment they were born.

Janice Raymond, Germaine Greer and Julie Bindel all have major issues and really aren't worth getting wound up about. Apart from anything else they all are discredited now for their extremist views. Bindel in particular was torn apart intellectually when she wrote hate articles in the Guardian which permitted commenting on her articles. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/aug/01/mytransmission  http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/node/2298  http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/01/julie-bindel-transphobia

In real life I've only ever accounted one transphobic feminist who was my my English teacher at a further education college in London. She also happened to a Lesbian and a Zionist and had it in for me on various levels although who cares, she's out of my life and anyway she had a nervous breakdown during the course and went on sick leave due to the contestation she got from a few of us regarding her ridiculous prejudices.

Quote from: mimpi on October 31, 2011, 06:44:56 AM
Janice Raymond, Germaine Greer and Julie Bindel all have major issues and really aren't worth getting wound up about. Apart from anything else they all are discredited now for their extremist views. Bindel in particular was torn apart intellectually when she wrote hate articles in the Guardian which permitted commenting on her articles. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/aug/01/mytransmission  http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/node/2298  http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/01/julie-bindel-transphobia

In real life I've only ever accounted one transphobic feminist who was my my English teacher at a further education college in London. She also happened to a Lesbian and a Zionist and had it in for me on various levels although who cares, she's out of my life and anyway she had a nervous breakdown during the course and went on sick leave due to the contestation she got from a few of us regarding her ridiculous prejudices.

The problem is that a lot of those woman project their own gender issues on transwoman. Unfortunately for a lot of people it's very hard to self reflect. What are my own motivations for judging people. A lot of them never get to that point. Perhaps because they lack the emotional intelligence to do so.

On the other hand, personally I think it's not right to put your head in the sand and accept being lied to by transwoman who grap every opportunity to lie about their past and themselves. Self reflection is lacking here too.  On both sides.

Quote from: Sailor_Saturn on October 29, 2011, 05:27:28 PM
Alright. I'll suspend the torrents of rage flowing through me for your claiming that this point is valid and hear you out instead. Exactly how is a transwoman committing rape by assuming a female form? What makes such a claim true? The absence of "female hardship" (whatever the hell THAT means)?

A lot of transwoman lack female sensitivity... as do their haters.

Quote from: mimpi on October 31, 2011, 06:44:56 AM
Janice Raymond, Germaine Greer and Julie Bindel all have major issues and really aren't worth getting wound up about. Apart from anything else they all are discredited now for their extremist views. Bindel in particular was torn apart intellectually when she wrote hate articles in the Guardian which permitted commenting on her articles. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/aug/01/mytransmission  http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/node/2298  http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/01/julie-bindel-transphobia

In real life I've only ever accounted one transphobic feminist who was my my English teacher at a further education college in London. She also happened to a Lesbian and a Zionist and had it in for me on various levels although who cares, she's out of my life and anyway she had a nervous breakdown during the course and went on sick leave due to the contestation she got from a few of us regarding her ridiculous prejudices.

What is really idiotic about that article of Julie Bindal is that she claims transsexuals are gay men who dislike being gay while the majority of transwoman is lesbian. She could have delved deeper into this subject which would have given her point more credit.
Its true that in iran gay people are forced into becoming a woman. But this does not explain transgenders in countries that lack all such pressure, and where being gay is more accepted then being trans.

Stupid.

AND about the female hardship.
Transwoman who were feminine from the day they were born and even after transition go through a lot more female hardship then most woman do.

But woman who would have rather been men, will never understand that.
Those woman do not speak for feminine woman too... they will see their desire to have a traditional life as a product of the pressure of sociaty. But that is not true. That is THEIR fight. It's not the fight of the woman who want to be able to be FEMININE and FREE....to enjoy their femininity and live the lives they want for themselves.