It seems my family refuses to accept me as male, why? Because I won't get bottom surgery. Now, I'm not saying anything against people who get bottom surgery, I just personally don't want to get it. Basically it's a "no dick, no deal" mentality. It's really frustrating because I don't plan on getting bottom surgery. The ignorance astounds me. I just don't have the energy to fight with people. But basically they're saying it's "another phase" and that I'll grow out of it and that it's a big mistake. It's pretty hard to keep my head up right now. I'm so sick of people's crap about it. I guess I don't have much of  point, I just feel down about it......

Sorry to hear that, mate.  Unfortunately not everyone in our lives will understand or support our transitions.  The good thing is that most, not all, family members do eventually reach a plateau where they accept it in their own time and on their own terms.  If only everyone could look at transition and transfolk the way we do - it's just a matter of compounding factors for most family members such as pre-existing bias, worry for our health and well-being and "losing" the mask of the person they percieved us to be.  It's no excuse for intolerance and ignorance, but there's usually more to someone's "not accepting" than just those two things.  Hope they come around.

I'm so so sorry that they have that mentality that if you don't get bottom surgery, you aren't a man. You know, my cousin once said something that I found incredibly ignorant. He said a woman without breasts isn't a woman. I asked him what about a woman with cancer? What happens if she had no choice but to get them removed? Honestly, I guess I shoved that memory back so I don't really remember what he said. But regardless, why don't you ask them, what makes a man? Ask them what would happen if someone had an accident and lost their penis (It's a bit out there but yeah) are they not a man anymore?
If a penis is all that makes a man then guess what? Technically everyone is a "woman". Because a clitoris is just an undeveloped penis. That's why men have nipples. We all start off as female.
All I can say is that I hope maybe one day their feelings will change. Even if they can't change their views, then hopefully you can surround yourself with positive, not so narrow minded people.

I TOTALLY know where you are coming from when it comes to bottom surgery. It's SO expensive. And in MY opinion (Must put that out there since there is a certain someone out there who likes to attack others' comments) it wouldn't affect my body that much that it's worth it to pay all of that money. And like you said, a penis does not make a man.
I really hope you feel better. Things always get better, even if it's not when we want them to but yeah.

Have you tried to explain how expensive that surgery is, and your reasons for not wanting it? And that you will never see the genitalia of the vast majority of men and women you interact with every day, and yet you accept them as men and women, i.e. when you think about it for more than a second it does not matter what you have in your pants.

if my parents were like that I would just tell them that i was going to get the surgery, and a few years down the line take a long vacation and come back saying that I had had the surgery, with some crazy explanation as to how I came up with the money.  People as ignorant as that dont deserve honesty

Quote from: Elijah on November 03, 2011, 01:37:43 AM
if my parents were like that I would just tell them that i was going to get the surgery, and a few years down the line take a long vacation and come back saying that I had had the surgery, with some crazy explanation as to how I came up with the money.  People as ignorant as that dont deserve honesty

Sounds like a good plan to me.

Quote from: Elijah on November 03, 2011, 01:37:43 AM
if my parents were like that I would just tell them that i was going to get the surgery, and a few years down the line take a long vacation and come back saying that I had had the surgery, with some crazy explanation as to how I came up with the money.  People as ignorant as that dont deserve honesty

Motion carried! The only people who will ever really know (or need to know!) what's in your pants - are you and the person your sleeping with. Everyone else can jog on - so if it makes for an easier ride mate by telling them you had it or plan to - can't really hurt can it.....

j.

Quote from: Darrin on November 02, 2011, 08:14:06 PM
But basically they're saying it's "another phase" and that I'll grow out of it and that it's a big mistake.

Yeah, and phases last a lifetime, right?  When I hear, "It's just a phase" I know they have no clue.  What's funny is this kind of phase seems to be common only in people who have or will be diagnosed transgender.  What a coincidence!

I would just tell them I was getting the surgery and hope they want to help finance it. Then go on vacation like Elijah said.

a penis doesn't make a man?   a penis is a man's most prized possession which is why there is such resistance to SRS among the medical profession and Non-ops.

Quote from: lilacwoman on November 03, 2011, 02:02:36 AM
a penis doesn't make a man?   a penis is a man's most prized possession which is why there is such resistance to SRS among the medical profession and Non-ops.

No, not really seeing as there are cis men out there with no dick and they are still men and are not hated on for not having a dick.

how often do penisless men wish they had a penis though?

it may be prized, but it doesn't make a man a man.  and honestly I am not the kind of person to get easily offended, and I am not offended, but to say something like that to a board full of transmen who most of them would do anything to have a penis seems kinda insensitive.  That would be like me going on to the MTF board and talk about how great vagina's are and how women aren't women if they don't have one.

Quote from: Elijah on November 03, 2011, 02:11:49 AM
to say something like that to a board full of transmen who most of them would do anything to have a penis seems kinda insensitive.  That would be like me going on to the MTF board and talk about how great vagina's are and how women aren't women if they don't have one.

What he said.

Quote from: Elijah on November 03, 2011, 02:11:49 AM
it may be prized, but it doesn't make a man a man.  and honestly I am not the kind of person to get easily offended, and I am not offended, but to say something like that to a board full of transmen who most of them would do anything to have a penis seems kinda insensitive.  That would be like me going on to the MTF board and talk about how great vagina's are and how women aren't women if they don't have one.

This exactly. Only I think it's even worse for us because the surgery for the ladies is pretty damn good. Ive seen photos where I couldn't even tell.

my parents will never accept me as a guy, dick or not, but they certainly wouldn't urge me into having surgery that's so....problematic.
Maybe you could educate them on downside growth on T and prosthetics? An inlargened clitoris is basically a micropenis, and the right prosthetic isn't much different from a penis sleeve a cis male with a micropenis might choose to use.

Quote from: Darrin on November 02, 2011, 08:14:06 PM
It seems my family refuses to accept me as male, why? Because I won't get bottom surgery. Now, I'm not saying anything against people who get bottom surgery, I just personally don't want to get it. Basically it's a "no dick, no deal" mentality. It's really frustrating because I don't plan on getting bottom surgery. The ignorance astounds me. I just don't have the energy to fight with people. But basically they're saying it's "another phase" and that I'll grow out of it and that it's a big mistake. It's pretty hard to keep my head up right now. I'm so sick of people's crap about it. I guess I don't have much of  point, I just feel down about it......

my MTf friend had same problem with a friend of hers, I got very angry when she said she only would call her she after getting the bottom surgery so i replyed to her,

"fine, then wont call you she untill you turned 21, got to talk for doctors minimum for 2 years,
got permission to the surgery, got castrated, pay more than thosant of your own money, to get a surgery
if thats whats make you a women"

Thanks all!

I'm just finding it hard to deal with the ignorance. I feel so belittled because I don't have/want bottom surgery. There's so much emphasis on penises in our society. They say they're so "trans positive" and accepting of trans folk, but the cissexism is crazy and running wild. I'm having  REALLY difficult time dealing with it. I know, I know, it takes people time to adjust and accept it, but I'm finding that people are being just plain nasty. My aunt was grilling me on why I want to "change my sex". She wasn't SAYING anything "mean" per-say, but her tone of voice was nasty. Saying things like: "Do you think that shaving your face is supposed to make you a man?" etc. I had nothing to say, I was speechless. Honestly, my trans experience is very different from most. I HAVE NOT always identified as male. I was unaware of anything until a year ago. Apparently, that's not enough time according to her. She compared my trans experience to unicycling. I tried my hand at uniycling a few years ago and I got frustrated because I couldn't ride it and gave up. That was considered a "phase" and because of that, so is being trans. I'm just so sick of it.

The vacation thing is funny, though.

Quote from: Darrin on November 03, 2011, 09:44:09 AM
Thanks all!

I'm just finding it hard to deal with the ignorance. I feel so belittled because I don't have/want bottom surgery. There's so much emphasis on penises in our society. They say they're so "trans positive" and accepting of trans folk, but the cissexism is crazy and running wild. I'm having  REALLY difficult time dealing with it. I know, I know, it takes people time to adjust and accept it, but I'm finding that people are being just plain nasty. My aunt was grilling me on why I want to "change my sex". She wasn't SAYING anything "mean" per-say, but her tone of voice was nasty. Saying things like: "Do you think that shaving your face is supposed to make you a man?" etc. I had nothing to say, I was speechless. Honestly, my trans experience is very different from most. I HAVE NOT always identified as male. I was unaware of anything until a year ago. Apparently, that's not enough time according to her. She compared my trans experience to unicycling. I tried my hand at uniycling a few years ago and I got frustrated because I couldn't ride it and gave up. That was considered a "phase" and because of that, so is being trans. I'm just so sick of it.

The vacation thing is funny, though.

the word aceptence is to over-used, noone wants to be ignorant but the thing is if the acceptence is for real or not.
sadly many people use accept just as a word to cover them not to be totally ignorant and its pretty sad.

I think to be transfriendly for real you must in general be openminded for the gender spectum.

like in Iran where they makes alot of sexchances but they dosen't accept homosexualety, and they only accept transexuals who make the whole surgery, I dont find that to be transfriendly but trans phobic because the acceptence only invold straight transexuals who go all the way and no one ells.

neither is it transfriendly if people say they accept transgender people who look like there wish gender but not the one who dosent pass..

I definitely know how you feel there, parts of my family and friends are much the same way.
I get a lot of comments along the line of, "If you're not getting surgery, then what's the point?"
I just don't like how bottom surgery looks right now, if it was more natural looking, and not so expensive, sure, I'd go for it.
But when it comes down to it, I'll probably never have junk like a 'normal' guys, and I'm okay with that,
Because the dick doesn't make the man. So what if I happen to have a vag down there, it doesn't mean that I don't have more balls than a ton of guys out there.