Hey everyone,

I have to agree with Steph here. Her site used to have a scathing rebuke of Blanchard's study and a point by point disecting of it's errors, including the fact that Blanchard only included test subjects that represented the outcome he wanted. The assumptions made completely biased the entire study. To see her now defend Blanchard makes me think she must have completely sold out. I wonder if he got control over her funding or something. Talk about doing a flip flop.

Anyway, the entire study is incredibly limited at this point and is far from decisive. The problem is that no one has any money to study it and no one seems that interested. People are going on Blanchard's work because of a lack of anything else.

As far as there being two types of transsexuals that are so different it's impossible they could have the same cause, that is far from making it a fact. While I agree there are stark contrasts, there is an intersecting point where the outcome does not depend on which group one is from. Once a person beleives they have the wrong body, it makes little difference when it happened, when considering treatment options. Once the GID reaches intolerable levels, it's transition or death, regardless of which type of transsexual one is labeled.

Love always,
Elizabeth

I stopped trying to figure this stuff out.  Just being who (or what) I am, I contradict so many theories it just gives me a headache.  I have my own set of theories as well, but that's all they are.

Quote from: Brianna on March 18, 2007, 12:43:50 PM
This research seems to prove my hypothysis about sexual orientation and age in relation to behavior and passing ability.

I'd love to hear it.  If you already have it posted on here somewhere, please point to where.  My guess is that your hypothesis is in line with my theories.

Melissa

Quote from: Kimberly on March 17, 2007, 09:07:40 PM

Quote from: article Nonhomosexual MtF transsexuals, who may be sexually attracted to women, to women and men, or to persons of neither sex, are not markedly gender-atypical in their appearance or behavior; they are believed to seek sex reassignment primarily because they are sexually attracted to the idea of becoming women, a paraphilic sexual interest that Blanchard (1989a) called  ->-bleeped-<-.

^{*snickers quietly to herself*}

I was going to comment but ^*shrug* Let them live in their delusion.

I'll comment.  They've failed to recognize that the above samples from the article are characteristics of a ->-bleeped-<- and not a transsexual. 

Its kind of interesting that no one has commented on the impact of hormones on brain size  >

Might explain why Transsexual MtFs seem to loose the plot

Looks like the FtMs are onto a winner Anyone else noticed that FtMs seem to be much more active in the trans field than they used to be and when I have come across them I have always been impressed by their drive and committment. Always thought it was just the testosterone but it seems like they also have more brain power !!!

Ruth

QuoteWow, and I thought I was heterosexual, silly me!  I was just trying to validate my womanhood! *giggles sarcastically*

Hah, hah, I love you, Tink! I agree, and also I feel that I don't need to validate my womanhood to anybody, I simply am who I am and I figure that you are simply who you are. Regardless of any actions that I take that may seem "unlady-like" if anyone were to call my gender into question I wouldn't try to find ways to prove to them that I'm a woman, I'd just laugh them into hell, because I know I'm woman! > I'm glad to see that you would do the same!  What people fail to realize is that all in all transgendered women and cisgendered women really aren't all that different when it comes down to it, from what I've seen thus far.

As far as brain size goes...I would be curious as to my brain size, being that I have androgen disorder, that might prove to be useful, it may answer a question or two: will my brain be larger than normal due to abnormal hormone levels that have been present from birth and, later, if I take treatment to correct it will it shrink to average female brain size? I suppose the issue is being able to see a before and after comparison, which would be difficult to do (is this done post-mortem or with MRI's) anyways, I'm blathering now, please don't volunteer to dissect my brain for me because of my rambling, loves! >

Well it's also possible that another region of the brain besides the BSTc is what makes us feel like we are the gender opposite of out birth sex.  I've also noticed that with many (not all) transsexuals, there tends to be a natural feminization of the body (masculinization for the FTMs) beforehand and this plays to more of an intersex theory.  I've also noticed the same thing with a lot of gay men.  They tend to have a more rounded female-like forehead, whereas a normal male forehead is flat and sloping.  So with noticable physical features, there must be some root cause that makes the body naturally start to align with how one is.  I have quite a few theories on this observation, but none of them are consistent enough to explain everything.

Melissa

I'll burst your bubble Mew.  My face had absolutely no feminine qualities. I still look in the mirror and wonder how I pass! I was lucky enough to transition before my brow became overwhelming.

Cindi

Quote from: Cindi Jones on March 19, 2007, 11:58:22 AM
I'll burst your bubble Mew.  My face had absolutely no feminine qualities. I still look in the mirror and wonder how I pass! I was lucky enough to transition before my brow became overwhelming.

Quote from: Melissa on March 19, 2007, 11:24:32 AM
I've also noticed that with many (not all) transsexuals...

Bubble not burst.

Melissa

Quote from: Tink on March 18, 2007, 11:17:19 PM
I was just trying to validate my womanhood! *giggles sarcastically*

On the other hand, one of the reasons my wife says she may leave me is because I don't "make her feel like a woman, or make her feel validated as a woman sexually." She *needs* the polarity to feel good about herself - though obviously "validation" doesn't mean proving she IS a woman, just that she wants to experience her sexuality through that feedback, that relationship. She needs to be desired as a woman by a male.

I also had to laugh... we were looking at some pictures of her, and I commented that "you look so cute!"

She got mad and protested, "I don't want to be cute! I want to be SEXY!"

Hmmm... classic sex-motivated TS if you ask me.

I've also asked her to explain what attracts her to guys. She said something like, "it's not really that their body is so attractive, it's who they are, and how they can make me feel about myself by desiring me. If they can make ME feel sexy, then I'll find THEM sexy. Guys don't turn me on directly really; it turns me on when I turn on a guy whom I want to want me."

Sounds like I married a classic autogynephilic transsexual. Who knew?

Kate

If the cause is something a little more global, then since the studies showed no correlation between hormones and BTSc size, that region might be more of an indicator of gender identity (aside from its function which might be related to sexuality) independent of chromosomes and the characteristics they typically effect. Interesting!

Quote from: Kate on March 19, 2007, 02:08:12 PMI've also asked her to explain what attracts her to guys. She said something like, "it's not really that their body is so attractive, it's who they are, and how they can make me feel about myself by desiring me. If they can make ME feel sexy, then I'll find THEM sexy. Guys don't turn me on directly really; it turns me on when I turn on a guy whom I want to want me."

No kidding? Wow, just when I was sure I was a lesbian I had to go and read this!

Quote from: umop ap!sdn on March 19, 2007, 06:03:53 PM

Quote from: Kate on March 19, 2007, 02:08:12 PMI've also asked her to explain what attracts her to guys. She said something like, "it's not really that their body is so attractive, it's who they are, and how they can make me feel about myself by desiring me. If they can make ME feel sexy, then I'll find THEM sexy. Guys don't turn me on directly really; it turns me on when I turn on a guy whom I want to want me."

No kidding? Wow, just when I was sure I was a lesbian I had to go and read this!

In many ways that's how I feel about guys as well, but I do find their faces cute.

Melissa

Same here re their faces, as a matter of fact.

Why does the brain area/Bstc affect gender identity?  Gender to me is something that society shapes.
Its true we all have differences in what we like, character and so on. but why place all this responsibility on an area of the brain?
Its not what I was born with that counts. its what I do with it!

Quote from: hannahrichter on March 19, 2007, 11:01:46 PM
Why does the brain area/Bstc affect gender identity?  Gender to me is something that society shapes.
Its true we all have differences in what we like, character and so on. but why place all this responsibility on an area of the brain?
Its not what I was born with that counts. its what I do with it!

Are you ts?  if you were, you'd probably understand that gender goes beyond what society shapes.

Well, we need to keep looking for answers.  And at the same time, we need to be willing to accept information that turns up nothing. I'm hopeful someday that there will be something that can be tested and measured to prove that there is a reason for this hell we live through.

It might help some of those that follow.

Cindi

I don't need medicine to explain my sexuality, why would I need it to explain my gender identity? Personally I think that both clinical factors and society/culture have affected me being TS.

Given a working clinical test the most probable outcome would probably that we would be aborted while in womb.

I was thinking more along the lines of using the proof to help us and our families understand this thing better. That would be a huge benefit to some of us.

Cindi

A Bailey-Blanchard-Lawrence clearinghouse

"This clearinghouse explores varying viewpoints about The Man Who Would Be Queen and the ideology that informs the work of J. Michael Bailey, Ray Blanchard, and Anne Lawrence."

Blanchard, Bailey, and Lawrence theory

"The Blanchard, Bailey, and Lawrence theory is an informal name for a controversial behavioral model of male-to-female transsexualism. This taxonomy claims there are two types of males who wish to transition: those who exhibit homosexuality and those who exhibit  ->-bleeped-<-. According to the concept, "Homosexual transsexuals" are attracted to males exclusively, and "autogynephilic transsexuals" exhibit a paraphilia in which they are attracted to the thought or image of themselves as women. Because this concept uses transsexual sexuality as its organizing principle, it conflicts with central tenets of other models of gender variance, especially the concept of gender identity."

It kinda ticks me off that they seem to pay abso-friggin-lutely no attention to the FtM transexuals when they discuss transexuality, as if they don't exist.  I also dislike the narrowness in which a MtF transexual simply cannot be a lesbian but must be an  ->-bleeped-<-c. There are plenty of genetic women that are lesbians who do not feel opposed to their gender identity and there are plenty of gay men that also do not feel this way. So where does that leave their little hypothesis?!


On another note, Kate: you're wife's reasons for being attracted to men are surprisingly identical to my own (except that I'm attracted enough to women to not have to put up with that crap! )  Also, I've been pondering what you've said about your muse. I think I'm in love with her, too, she's so pretty!  But seriously, it sounds like she's your ideal self and that you love her because nobody else does and because everybody needs to be loved, so in a round about way you're allowing yourself to love you're true self because it's difficult for you to openly love yourself because you've hated yourself for so long. I also have an ideal self but not as strongly as you because I'm closer to being her (no offense)...but she's the one that picks me apart and tells me to be more like her and I'm always trying to impress her. That's really embarrassing for me to admit, because I know it makes me sounds like a nutjob, but I thought it would help you to hear it.

Quote from: angelsgirl on March 20, 2007, 01:26:53 PM
But seriously, it sounds like she's your ideal self and that you love her because nobody else does and because everybody needs to be loved, so in a round about way you're allowing yourself to love you're true self because it's difficult for you to openly love yourself because you've hated yourself for so long. I also have an ideal self but not as strongly as you because I'm closer to being her (no offense)...but she's the one that picks me apart and tells me to be more like her and I'm always trying to impress her. That's really embarrassing for me to admit, because I know it makes me sounds like a nutjob, but I thought it would help you to hear it.

That was *beautiful*. OK, well, my keyboard here at work is soaked in tears now, lol... but it's *beautiful*. You just melted another chunk of emotional denial from me

THANK you

Kate