My in-laws were over this weekend to visit with the kids and see my partner.  Like everyone else I told them about 2 years ago about my intention to transition.   However they still use the wrong pronouns and seem uncomfortable around me.  I've changed a lot in the last few months and when my Mother-in-law first got here she could barely look at me.  It's so awkward making conversation with someone who won't look at you.  I hate when they come over because I end up hiding in my own house in an effort to avoid them.  A good deal of this last weekend was spent reading Storm of Swords.  It's what they would prefer as well. 

Finally right before they left last night I confronted her about the wrong pronoun usage.   Her main argument was that she doesn't see me enough for it to become a habit with her.  Which I took to mean that if I'm not directly in front of her face she doesn't have to deal with me.  She can pretend everything is the way it would be comfortable for her.  She admits to using the wrong name and pronoun when speaking about me to others.  My partner thinks I should give her credit for sometimes getting it right.  The thing is to me, it's a difference between remembering to use the right pronouns and name and believing that they should be used.  If you believe they should be used you don't have to remember them. 

I look male now to even my own eyes.  Greg, my partner, insists that the way I look doesn't matter because referring to me the wrong way is a matter of habit.  I need to give people time to adjust themselves.  She's had 2 years to get use to the idea and just sometimes making the correct guess just isn't good enough for me.  It's my opinion that even if she can't see and have to deal with my masculinity I still exist.  I think my struggles in my transitioning is worth recognizing by respecting my wishes of what I wish to be called even if I'm not in sight. 

All this would be bad enough.  However in a month's time I have to go spend a week at their house in Michigan for Christmas.  I know the kids deserve to have Christmas with their grandparents and Greg wants to be there as well.  With me however the mere idea is filling me with dread.  Here in Illinois everything is good.  99.9% of people I talk to, strangers and friends, refer to me and see me completely male.  To go from that to a place where they may occasionally remember the right name or pronoun just doesn't fly.  I should talk to her more but the fact that I said anything at all to her about my feelings upset Greg.  He claims I'm forcing him to choose between his mother and when I mention I'm transgender.  The choice should be obvious after being married 11 years and I told him so.   That made him much more upset.  The thing is I wasn't actually asking him to choose but I do want his support and he wasn't giving it.  He was siding with her.

So what does everyone here think?  Is it reasonable for me to ask others to respect my identity even when I'm not in the direct line of sight?  How am I suppose to survive Christmas?

Warning: This is completely opinion. I apologize in advance if I seem harsh about any of this!

I think that you're completely right to want to be recognized and to want her to get it right. Kudos to you for saying that to her. But for Christmas, I think you should just go and get it over with. Yes, it'll probably be hell for you to deal with, but as you said it's for the kids. They should get to see their grandparents. I missed out on mine a lot in my childhood and I wish I hadn't.
Your kids might even help you out while you're there. They might correct your mother in law when she "accidentally" uses the wrong name or pronouns. They see you more than they see her, so she should suck it up and get over herself.
Like I said, this could be harsh.
Really, though, my mother just did something similar recently. Yesterday, in fact. I have a new Facebook account that says I'm male and has my chosen name. She posted on my wall, "Hey Girl". And I freaked out a little bit. It's not like she doesn't know. That's why she's my friend on that account. She just chose to use that word. Whether she did it from habit or just because she was brought up to not accept any sort of change in other people like it seems your mother in law may have been, it doesn't matter. She still did it. It hurt me, and I told her that.
If your mother in law knows that you don't like being called your old name or when she uses the wrong pronouns, she might just be doing it to spite you. I don't know her, so I couldn't say for sure. That's just how it seems to me.

So I think you should "man up" (pun intended) and do Christmas in Michigan. Do it for Greg and for your kids. After Christmas, keep hating the dreaded mother in law that most other people hate too.


IMO. 

Wow, that must really suck.  Personally, I wouldn't stand for that. 
I'm pre-T right now, so I don't force my family to use the right pronouns, although I did force them with the name thing.  But even my LGBT friends who didn't know me "before" slip up on pronouns, and I get it, because I sound so female that their brains wants to say "she."  I'm in that awkward in between stage with the pronouns right now.  But, as soon as I start T, I'm going to start INSISTING that my family use the right pronouns.

One good tactic I've found is to correct people every single time.  So like, if they say, "Can you pass this to her?"  You say, "Can you pass this to him" 
People get tired and annoyed with being corrected all the time, but there's only way one you will stop correcting them, if they stop screwing up.  And I think they will start to pick up the habit just by hearing you say it all the time.
And when they didn't, I started getting PISSED at them.  I would scream at them, "THAT'S NOT MY NAME!"  It was one of those moments where everyone stops and stares, because you just screamed.  And it probably did me look like a child, but they usually responded like, "whoa, calm down. I'll say it right."

Of course, I would have to say, causing such a commotion in front of your kids would not be such a good idea.  but you could still correct them every single time until they get tired of being corrected.

I will have to say, that I disagree with Jasper just a little bit.  While I think it is great for your kids to have a relationship with their grandparents, I don't think it's good for the kids if you don't get along with the grandparents.  Kids sense these things.  Kids know when there's tension around.  The kids will notice if you're always in the back room while everyone is visiting.  And the kids will end up hearing the wrong name and the wrong pronouns from these grandparents as they continue to grow up.  And I wouldn't want the kids to catch onto that habit instead of the other way around.

Maybe you could consider making a deal with the grandparents by telling them that you (and your kids) won't come unless they try to get the pronouns and name right.  Not in a mean way, but just in a matter of fact way, because this is important to you, and they need to respect that, or else they don't respect you.  And I would even go further to tell them that everytime they slip up while you are there will be one more day you will leave early.  So if you planned to stay for the week, and they mess up three times, then you leave after 4 days.  I love incentive.  It works

Anyways, hope this helped give you some ideas.  I realize not everyone is as mean as me.  But, if I don't stand up for myself, who else will.


Also, it's not that traumatizing to grow up not knowing your grandparents.  My parents had a lot of issues with both sets of my grandparents and they didn't let us see our grandparents much.  At the time I didn't know anything about the reason.  But really, I was fine.  I thought everyone else very rarely saw their grandparents as well.

I think the things you're asking for are completely appropriate to ask for.  The issue is and will always be that some people simply aren't willing to give you the little you ask on principle.  Accidents happen and I think we should strive to be as cool as possible about those accidents, but willful defiance is, well, willful defiance and it sounds like that's what you've got here.  As far as what you should do about it, I'm with Jasper.  Deal with crappy family for Christmas for the sake of your family and get back to normal life where you're respected as a human being as soon as you can.  Actually, that's probably great advice for all adults, trans or not.  I mean, who honestly enjoys these holidays other than kids (and they're being bribed!)?

that really sucks i have a similar situation with a bunch of people in my life you cant change other people so just try to void her like i avoid my maternal grandfather and paternal grandmother.

No one needs to apologize for their opinion around me.  I appreciate all the advice that people take the time to write out.   It's more then asking for the right pronouns.  What I'm asking for is more acceptance and understanding.  Rather then just trying to remember to use the right pronouns.  I want people to want to use the right pronouns.  If they really appreciated my point of view they would.  I always correct people when they say the wrong pronoun.  I've been doing that for years.   

I want people close to me and involved with me to see me as I see myself.  It really bothers me that they don't.  That they continue to think of me in a way that's not based in reality.  Just because it's more comfortable for them.  Only when they see me they feel the urge to try to use the right pronouns. 

My grandparents were very important to me growing up.  I do want the kids to have a relationship with their grandparents in Michigan.  Since my parents have disowned me and they no longer have the chance to have a relationship with them.  I don't want to rely on my kids to fight my battles for me.  That's  not their job.  I just don't want to get them confused if they hear the wrong name or pronoun enough.  I want to do the Christmas visit for the kids and for Greg.  Just opening presents while everyone watches is going to be tough.  I'll just focus on the kids I guess and damn the rest of them.  I just wish they very idea of it didn't put me on the edge of a panic attack.  I might go but staying cool ... I dunno .

I might try to make a deal like JohnAlex says.  If it's really unbearable there I'll just go get a hotel room.  If I warn Greg ahead of time about that he'll be prepared for the possibility.  I just have a hard time reconciling myself to being pleasant with people when they disregard my feelings so incredibly much. 

Quote from: JohnAlex on November 21, 2011, 04:01:06 PM
Also, it's not that traumatizing to grow up not knowing your grandparents.  My parents had a lot of issues with both sets of my grandparents and they didn't let us see our grandparents much.  At the time I didn't know anything about the reason.  But really, I was fine.  I thought everyone else very rarely saw their grandparents as well.

I didn't say I grew up completely without them. We lived really far away and my parents didn't have the best relationships with them, even though I enjoyed going there. When we did visit, I knew there was something going on but I just went and played with my cousins or watched tv with my grandma.

I like your deal idea though.

If you think about it though, the problem (as sir squirrel said) is that she doesn't want to use the correct pronouns. Although more and more people are finding it easier to come by, acceptance is still sometimes hard to come by. People can't just magically have it. They must learn it if they're not usually a very accepting person. And that can be really hard for certain people.

Maybe spending the time with your mother in law is what your relationship with each other needs. It might be rough or awkward, but she might end up respecting you as a person more at the end of it.

Quote from: Squirrel698 on November 21, 2011, 06:17:01 PMIt's more then asking for the right pronouns.  What I'm asking for is more acceptance and understanding.  Rather then just trying to remember to use the right pronouns.  I want people to want to use the right pronouns.  If they really appreciated my point of view they would.  I always correct people when they say the wrong pronoun.  I've been doing that for years.

I've had this dilemma myself for a long time, how to know if they even can become more accepting or understanding. I do believe that some people are just not capable of it.  like you said, they would rather believe what is more comfortable than face reality.  but there are some people I know who just are so ignorant and with a little education can be more understanding.  For me, it's hard to tell where some people fall.

At least if it were me, I just could not see continuing the relationship with these grandparents as is.  For me, I would evaluate which is possible, I would either educate them with the hope that they can understand and accept (education through books/movies/seminars/more exposure to other trans people), or I would give up on them.  Accept there can't ever be a real relationship.

I'm in that dilemma with my family.  I'm not sure if they are open minded enough to be educated.  but I haven't tried yet.  But if they aren't, then we just aren't ever going to be a "family" in any meaningful way.
One thing I've learned is that just because you are related by blood doesn't mean your family.
Right now, I'm trying to find my real family. composed of friends, people I actually want to be around, people who accept and are there for me.

If you ever get in that place too, maybe you might even be friends with some nice older couple, who in a sense end up being substitute grandparents for your kids.

Quote from: Jasper on November 21, 2011, 06:49:56 PMMaybe spending the time with your mother in law is what your relationship with each other needs. It might be rough or awkward, but she might end up respecting you as a person more at the end of it.

I would have to agree at the potential this has at her seeing you as a real person, deserving of respect.  However, that also must be really hard to attempt at doing when there's so much tension already.  I think not all people (myself included) are capable of this.  But if you are capable of it, it could be just what she needs to understand you. 

It's more than reasonable to ask for the right pronoums, especially in your own house.
That's your place where you can feel relaxed and safe and they have to respect that or leave ( and don't slamming with the doors please )

Surviving Christmas? John Cleese, the British comedian wrote a book about it, how to survive Christmas and if I'm right he also wrote a book how to survive family, I think you can use it.

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all, 2 years is ample time to switch over if you're genuinely making the effort.

I have the same dilemma. I'm tired of correcting people, it's awkward and frustrating. I've pretty much cut off all contact with the vast majority of my family now, they're all just horrible people and I was tired of the drama (not just because they misgendered me I feel I must clarify). I only have my sister left, and she claims to be supportive but doesn't particularly show it.

I've realised my sister still uses my old name and the wrong pronouns when talking about me to other people. I confronted her about it and she just says "oh that's what they know you as, don't want to confuse things"

...right...they know me as that because you introduced me as that.

She seems to feel the need to explain me to people, "this is my sister, but she wants to be a boy, so my brother I guess, oh whatever! ho ho haha ha ha"

Or she'll say things as if I've never mentioned being trans at all, like comment on the fact that I need to shave my legs.

Feels like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall sometimes.

Not unreasonable at all.  I correct my family every time now.  It's been 3.5 years on T.

I have gotten a bit more foreceful with my mom.  Mostly she gets it right, but occasionally she doesn't and when I call her on it she gets snippy.  So I've gotten a bit more forceful back.

In your own home your partner should be more supportive and side with you.  At your inlaws, while I don't think we should deny ourselves, sometimes for the sake of family peace, esp. at emotion-laden holidays, it's best to let it go, smile and nod, and get through it.  i've done that in the past with other family dynamics that would always come out at the holidays.  Smile and pass the bean dip.


Jay

I don't think I want to give an opinion on your inlaws and christmas situation. But grandparents, well, not everyone has those. My dad's parents died when he was a kid, and my mom's mom is a paranoid schizophrenic and I fear and dislike her. My kid's grandparents are also all either dead or pretty unhealthy.

Dread and misery doesn't have to be a part of family gatherings. Growing up, I sang in the choir and I volunteered at old folks homes. I talked to neighbors. There were plenty of elders around without grandparents.

I know that wasn't really your question.

I found that with my family they were really defensive saying things like 'you know you'll never be a real man' 'people are going to think you're a freak' and 'I'm not going to ever call you that' blaw blaw blaw. Honestly maybe because I am a bit different that most but I responded with 'yup'  'that's fine' 'I'm not doing this for you' for a lot of their comments. Now they say he and Jay when I've never corrected them once.

Once they find that you just don't care and/or there is no way to hurt you over it then they can come around. If not then whatever, it's their problem not yours.

I don't think you need recognition to validate your identity. If it wasn't because you are trans than it would be something else she would be bitchy about so who cares. Let her feel like she's winning whatever she it is she is trying to do to make her feel better about herself.

In the end transitioning is for you, support from others is just a bonus.

That sounds pretty rough. My mother-in-law and I don't get on particularly well, we never really have, she's even told me to my face that she doesn't really like me, but because I'm married to her son she has to be nice to me but she doesn't have to like me. When we take vacations together I take along my laptop and books or some sort of project to work on when everyone is together, otherwise my partner and I will let the kidlet hangout with her grandparents and we find something to do. Holidays .... those are rough. I don't see anything wrong with asking someone to use the correct name and pronouns, it seems like a reasonable request, really, especially after two years. Just keep nicely correcting her I guess. I'm not sure how old your kids are, but is it something they'd notice and correct? I know my 7 year old corrects people who call me by my birth name.

Let the kids enjoy their time with their grandparents and get some reading done or something? I've gotten good at being in the room with everyone and tuning them out for the most part and finding something to do online so that I'm sort of social. Good luck, and I hope it all goes well.