With a due respect to all, to me is inconceivable the notion that an homosexual male, will resort to fudging his gender identity to disguise his homosexual orientation.

 
  Lol isn't this baileys theory that all homosexual transwomen are really just gay males in denial?

  I think some people look way to much into the whole sexual aspect of being trans, me i just go with how i feel simple as that.

Zenda means well enough but there is a cultural disconect she has with english. I have tried to give her some pointers into being more politic with her questions but the language disconect seems to prevent true understanding.

Anyways...she doesn't mean to piss us off, she just does.


If I am just a gay man in deep denial then I am one seriously confussed and mixed up puppy. I like girls....
(ok ok I do like some guys, but not enough to keep one, sex is as far as I can deal with a man)

What more can one say to such a question?
Have not most of us been through exhaustive amounts of therapy just to rule out such a situation?
Goddess knows I did.
If my therapist, my spouse and I missed that one after a year and a half of bi monthly therapy, then I guess I am just plain screwed...

Kia Ora folks,

Thanks for your inputs so far[and for being civil well at least some have tried to be  ] ...At times I also have the habit of reading more into what's been written than what was intended by the poster, it's just at times when reading the written word and not being able to see facial expressions, body language, etc it can make for hard work getting the real meaning...

Meanwhile back to topic.....

I have a close friend who started out in the gay community, in 'drag' a lot of the time, but then at 17 she started to live full time as a female without HRT...I think she started HRT  around '10' years after she went full time...

She ended up having her surgery 6 months before me, however she was somewhat pissed off with the psycho-surgical team's counselor she saw because she had to attend a couple of sessions with her fiancé [she's now happily married]. She felt the counselor wanted to find out if her [now] husband was 'gay' and no doubt if this was the case [which fortunately for her it was not] it's more than likely she would not have been accepted for government funded surgery, as she would have presented a high risk of possible 'regrets' causing bad publicity if she did later regretted it and went public like some do...

Metta Zenda

Quote from: Jen61 on December 07, 2011, 09:12:18 PM
With a due respect to all, to me is inconceivable the notion that an homosexual male, will resort to fudging his gender identity to disguise his homosexual orientation.

Kia Ora Jen,

As hard as it might be for you to comprehend, it happens...

Metta Zenda

Quote from: Jen61 on December 07, 2011, 09:12:18 PM
With a due respect to all, to me is inconceivable the notion that an homosexual male, will resort to fudging his gender identity to disguise his homosexual orientation.

It doesn't really disguise anything...If anything, it makes a homosexual male GAYER.

To quote my friend Adam, "Hun, you were so gay you became a girl!!"

Quote from: Jen61 on December 07, 2011, 07:53:35 PM


How about you ? Are you a closeted gay in deep denial ? Are you sure you know who you are ?

Kia Ora Jen,

I'm just a bi-romantic asexual 'female' who just so happens to be comfortable in her new skin...For me to be a closeted 'gay' in denial, would have served no purpose whatsoever, I have supportive[open minded] children, family members, and friends, I live in a community with a high % of gays[both male and females] along with a very accepting straight population...Like many here at first[many moons ago] I thought I might be gay, but then that idea quickly dissolved on it own accord....

However if you are talking in a philosophical sense then 'I' am just a combination of the five aggregates=form-sensation-perception-mental formation-consciousness working together to give a false sense of a permanent  'self'...So yes I do know for sure... [but that's not what you are really referring to is it ?  ]

Metta Zenda

Quote from: cynthialee on December 07, 2011, 09:46:01 PM
Zenda means well enough but there is a cultural disconect she has with english. I have tried to give her some pointers into being more politic with her questions but the language disconect seems to prevent true understanding.

Anyways...she doesn't mean to piss us off, she just does.


If I am just a gay man in deep denial then I am one seriously confussed and mixed up puppy. I like girls....
(ok ok I do like some guys, but not enough to keep one, sex is as far as I can deal with a man)

What more can one say to such a question?
Have not most of us been through exhaustive amounts of therapy just to rule out such a situation?
Goddess knows I did.
If my therapist, my spouse and I missed that one after a year and a half of bi monthly therapy, then I guess I am just plain screwed...

Thanks CL,

That's very noble of you to put in your two cents worth...I'm humbled by your concern...

However not everyone goes through such intense therapy session as yourself Cynthia...But I guess if a gender therapist feels the need to keep seeing a client for a long period of time. they have their reasons [ making a bit of extra cash might be a factor along with genuine concern]...

I'm happy to see you turned out alright...And that it was money well spent...[ *Well I hope it was money well spent for your sake *  ] 

Metta Zenda

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 07, 2011, 02:55:03 PM
What are you trying to say about some of us here?

Kia Ora M,

I'm not trying to say anything about you 'personally', just some observations and facts about people who want to or have transitioned and their motive behind it...

However when it comes to "was transitioning the right thing to do ?"[for the straight, gay, bi, asexual, questioning transitioner]  only time will tell for some...

Metta Zenda

Quote from: Jen61 on December 07, 2011, 09:12:18 PM
With a due respect to all, to me is inconceivable the notion that an homosexual male, will resort to fudging his gender identity to disguise his homosexual orientation.

Well put Jen, thank you.
Then to put the cherry on top to have SRS - just to fudge that you're gay?!??? Hello?!

AND!... have gone through at least a year of gate-keeping, shrinking, counselling, therapy?

Eh, you gotta be SOOO messed up for good not even you grandma would figure you out, never mind anyone else including yourself :-)

But as always YMMV, and the exception, will yet again confirm the rule, um.

Axélle
PS: Woopsy... I am gay, like in being a lesbian. So in this instance I ALWAYS been a gay female in a pseudo-gay relationship with a lot of females... Maybe that is the correct answer?

Kia Ora,

Just to point out the obvious[well obvious only to some so it would seem]  a gate keepers job is not an easy one[as my gate keeping friend once told me]...

There are always those who slip through the gate [just like how some terrorists slip through a porous boarder] ..They are well versed in what the gate keeper wants to hear and especially nowadays where there's untold amounts of life stories on the net and other little snippets of camouflage one can find and adapt, so has to look and sound convincing[possibly even fooling oneself]...

If this thread has made some[even non members who might read it] think a bit deeper about their motive behind having major life changing surgery-then it's served its purpose....

After all you DO want to be happy in life don't you ? And jumping out of the frying pan into the fire is NOT going to make you happy...

However after all is said and done, if you are totally convinced transition[with or without surgery] is right for you, go for it, and I wish you all the happiness you deserve and I truly do mean this....

Metta Zenda

Phew and Wow I made it through the gauntlet =no 'pack attack' but it was touch and go for a while   
       

Quote from: pretty on December 07, 2011, 01:36:54 PM
You don't think asking transwomen if they're not really just a man in denial is antagonistic or insulting? When it is presented as a direct question to those people it's an insinuation, not an expression of opinion. I'm willing to bet the only reason anyone would put up with this thread is because everyone is lesbian and it doesn't apply to them so suddenly they don't mind.

But whatever lol, carry on 

Kia Ora Pretty,

Sadly you have read more into it than what was meant and have taken it to heart...Might I suggest you re-read the post...It's not about 'you' unless you see yourself in how I described a deeply closeted in denial 'gay' person...

If this doesn't fit who you are, then what's the problem ? I could not make you[nor any other member] into a gay male even if I tried... One has to be 'wired' that way at birth...And I'm not 'god' although at times I wished I was...     [I'm just joking in case you didn't know]...

Metta Zenda  

I thought I could be a gay guy in order to avoid transition.. Guess what? Didn't work for me.. Most gay guys who got to know me would realise I wasn't a gay guy.. In fact, in the end, it was a gay guy being a little blunt with who he saw when we met that I was finally forced to face up to the truth about who I was.. And while he was rude and somewhat cruel about it, I actually thank him for saying what he did..

HRT would sort this out fairly quickly I think.  If you are TS then you feel better, but apparently if your brain is not meant to run on it you feel really edgy and uncomfortable all the time.  In the days when it was a choice between jail or HRT for gays, choosing hormones caused a lot to suicide.  Alan Turing being a notable case.

Karen.

Intersting replays and opinions. I have my views which are colored by my professional activities. As such I could not see what the connection between my gender identity and my sexual orientation are (or were). The few times that the issue was brought by counselors, physicians, or other concerned individuals, my standard postion was: "Oh, I am not confused or unhappy about my sexual orientation; and what ever it is it has no bearing in my gender identity."

In my case my gender identity has no bearing  in anything except on my self perception of my gender and who I am. I am a female scientist, scholar, American, Dutch-decendant, martial artist, former bike racer, and last but not least a father by the grace of God.

I do what I want without letting the perceptions of femininity of masculinity  affect my decisions. I am perfectly comfortable "dolling up' at a slumber part, or racing the the dirt bike with the boys. It is me, the same person, just another female.

My sex life is but a small yet comforting and pleasurable part of my life, an spiritual nexus to my partner; as such just her and mine bussines

Quote from: Zenda on December 07, 2011, 10:42:12 PM
However not everyone goes through such intense therapy session as yourself Cynthia...But I guess if a gender therapist feels the need to keep seeing a client for a long period of time. they have their reasons [ making a bit of extra cash might be a factor along with genuine concern]...

I'm happy to see you turned out alright...And that it was money well spent...[ *Well I hope it was money well spent for your sake *  ] 

OK, now that was a dig at me.
uncool

It was me that insisted on exhaustive therapy not my therapist.
Truth be told my therapist got tired of seeing me, she told me there was no need for me to keep seeing her as she only does therapy with sick people.

Bottom line for me?

If you WANT SRS go and get it - then shut up your face and stop blaming anyone for not having given you enough guidance.

That's the typical immature behaviour of a lot of people and is unfortunately supported by the media and some lawyers that make it their living.

YOU CAN NOT PROTECT A PERSON FROM HIM OR HER SELF - if you think so you are a fool or some misguided journalist or legal-beagle. Simple as that.

Axélle
PS: In fact no one to my knowledge has done a survey of suicides actually CAUSED by some overly restrictive gate-keepers. They rather have you kill yourself first, before they be blamed for having made a "mistake".
Current culture to render the patient an imbecile rather then a mature human being. (My very own experience)

Quote from: Axélle on December 08, 2011, 09:45:10 AM
Bottom line for me?

If you WANT SRS go and get it - then shut up your face and stop blaming anyone for not having given you enough guidance.

That's the typical immature behaviour of a lot of people and is unfortunately supported by the media and some lawyers that make it their living.

YOU CAN NOT PROTECT A PERSON FROM HIM OR HER SELF - if you think so you are a fool or some misguided journalist or legal-beagle. Simple as that.

Axélle
PS: In fact no one to my knowledge has done a survey of suicides actually CAUSED by some overly restrictive gate-keepers. They rather have you kill yourself first, before they be blamed for having made a "mistake".
Current culture to render the patient an imbecile rather then a mature human being. (My very own experience)

Pretty much, yeah. I mean, if someone truly wants SRS, then that person will get it anyhow regardless if the person should or not.

A friend of mine made herself irrevocable enemies with her gatekeepers and pretty much shouted at them to shove it, and the gatekeeper lost it aswell and told her the same thing.
Anyway, she took a big lone and went over to Thailand and had her SRS and after that the State in her own country was pretty much legaly forced to help her with the rest such as namechanges and cosmetic surery and so on.

Anyway, she seemed much happier, atleast, so apparently it was the right decision for her.

In any case, there are all kinds of people having SRS that perhaps rather shouldn't and just as a selfproclaimed transsexual may fully possibly be a gay male in denial, the reverse is be true aswell, and I know for a fact that many selfproclaimed gays are in actuality transsexuals in denial.
But then again, those ones rarely seems happy and are just too often edgy and real dramaqueens about everything.

Quote from: cynthialee on December 08, 2011, 09:29:32 AM
OK, now that was a dig at me.
uncool

CL remember this?

"Zenda means well enough but there is a cultural disconect she has with english. I have tried to give her some pointers into being more politic with her questions but the language disconect seems to prevent true understanding.

Anyways...she doesn't mean to piss us off, she just does."

Nice one CL....

Metta Zenda

Uh oh. Someone better tell my wife.