Quote from: Jen61 on December 11, 2011, 04:31:36 PM
Biol Psychiatry. 2009 Jan 1;65(1):93-6. Epub 2008 Oct 28.
Androgen receptor repeat length polymorphism associated with male-to-female transsexualism.
Hare L, Bernard P, Sánchez FJ, Baird PN, Vilain E, Kennedy T, Harley VR.
Source
Human Molecular Genetics Laboratory, Prince Henry's Institute of Medical Research, Melbourne, Australia.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
There is a likely genetic component to transsexualism, and genes involved in sex steroidogenesis are good candidates. We explored the specific hypothesis that male-to-female transsexualism is associated with gene variants responsible for undermasculinization and/or feminization. Specifically, we assessed the role of disease-associated repeat length polymorphisms in the androgen receptor (AR), estrogen receptor beta (ERbeta), and aromatase (CYP19) genes.
METHODS:
Subject-control analysis included 112 male-to-female transsexuals and 258 non-transsexual males. Associations and interactions were investigated between CAG repeat length in the AR gene, CA repeat length in the ERbeta gene, and TTTA repeat length in the CYP19 gene and male-to-female transsexualism.
RESULTS:
A significant association was identified between transsexualism and the AR allele, with transsexuals having longer AR repeat lengths than non-transsexual male control subjects (p=.04). No associations for transsexualism were evident in repeat lengths for CYP19 or ERbeta genes. Individuals were then classified as short or long for each gene polymorphism on the basis of control median polymorphism lengths in order to further elucidate possible combined effects. No interaction associations between the three genes and transsexualism were identified.
CONCLUSIONS:
This study provides evidence that male gender identity might be partly mediated through the androgen receptor.


Androgen Receptor Repeat Length Polymorphism
Associated with Male-to-Female Transsexualism
Lauren Hare, Pascal Bernard, Francisco J. Sánchez, Paul N. Baird, Eric Vilain, Trudy Kennedy,
and Vincent R. Harley. BIOL PSYCHIATRY 2009;65:93–96
Background: There is a likely genetic component to transsexualism, and genes involved in sex steroidogenesis are good candidates. We
explored the specific hypothesis that male-to-female transsexualism is associated with gene variants responsible for undermasculinization
and/or feminization. Specifically, we assessed the role of disease-associated repeat length polymorphisms in the androgen receptor (AR),
estrogen receptor _ (ER_), and aromatase (CYP19) genes.
Methods: Subject-control analysis included 112 male-to-female transsexuals and 258 non-transsexual males. Associations and interactions
were investigated between CAG repeat length in the AR gene, CA repeat length in the ER_ gene, and TTTA repeat length in the CYP19 gene
and male-to-female transsexualism.
Results: A significant association was identified between transsexualism and the AR allele, with transsexuals having longer AR repeat
lengths than non-transsexual male control subjects (p_.04). No associations for transsexualism were evident in repeat lengths for CYP19 or
ER_ genes. Individuals were then classified as short or long for each gene polymorphism on the basis of control median polymorphism
lengths in order to further elucidate possible combined effects. No interaction associations between the three genes and transsexualism
were identified.
Conclusions: This study provides evidence that male gender identity might be partly mediated through the androgen receptor.





Sex steroid-related genes and male-to-female Transsexualism
Susanne Henningssona, Lars Westberga, Staffan Nilssonb,
Bengt Lundstro¨mc, Lisa Ekseliusd, Owe Bodlunde, Eva Lindstro¨md,
Monika Hellstranda, Roland Rosmondf, Elias Erikssona, Mikael Lande´ng,*
Department of Pharmacology, Institute of Physiology and Pharmacology, Go¨teborg University,
Go¨teborg, Sweden Department of Mathematical Statistics, Chalmers University of Technology, Go¨teborg, Sweden Section of Psychiatry, Institute of Clinical Neuroscience, Go¨teborg University, Go¨teborg, Sweden Department of Neuroscience, Uppsala University, Uppsala, Sweden
eDepartment of Psychiatry, UmeaUniversity, Umea, Sweden
fDepartment of Heart and Lung Diseases, Go¨teborg University, Go¨teborg, Sweden
gDepartment of Clinical Neuroscience, Section of Psychiatry S:t Go¨ran, Karolinska Institutet,
Stockholm 112 81, Sweden
Received 16 November 2004; received in revised form 12 February 2005; accepted 14 February 2005
Summary Transsexualism is characterised by lifelong discomfort with the
assigned sex and a strong identiÞcation with the opposite sex. The cause of
transsexualism is unknown, but it has been suggested that an aberration in the early
sexual differentiation of various brain structures may be involved. Animal
experiments have revealed that the sexual differentiation of the brain is mainly
due to an inßuence of testosterone, acting both via androgen receptors (ARs) andÑ
after aromatase-catalyzed conversion to estradiolÑvia estrogen receptors (ERs). The
present study examined the possible importance of three polymorphisms and their
pairwise interactions for the development of male-to-female transsexualism: a CAG
repeat sequence in the Þrst exon of the AR gene, a tetra nucleotide repeat
polymorphism in intron 4 of the aromatase gene, and a CA repeat polymorphism in
intron 5 of the ERb gene. Subjects were 29 Caucasian male-to-female transsexuals
and 229 healthy male controls. Transsexuals differed from controls with respect to
the mean length of the ERb repeat polymorphism, but not with respect to the length
of the other two studied polymorphisms. However, binary logistic regression analysis
revealed signiÞcant partial effects for all three polymorphisms, as well as for the
interaction between the AR and aromatase gene polymorphisms, on the risk of
developing transsexualism. Given the small number of transsexuals in the study,
the results should be interpreted with the utmost caution. Further study of the
putative role of these and other sex steroid-related genes for the development of
transsexualism  may, however, be worthwhile.
2005 Elsevier Ltd. All

These are studies based off a controlled number of transsexuals, thus it cannot possibly apply to the entire community.  It is a theory.  Try again.

I have taken the liberty of putting words in bold for you in the above quote to further prove there is no known cause.

Quote from: stldrmgrl on December 11, 2011, 04:35:00 PM
These are studies based off a controlled number of transsexuals, thus it cannot possibly apply to the entire community.  It is a theory.  Try again.

I have taken the liberty of putting words in bold for you in the above quote to further prove there is no known cause.

Epileptic fits were first consider an evil curse, then the product of a feeble mind. Later on we discover it had a biological origin. As the resolution of brain activity mapping increase our understanding of GID will grow. The sample size is small, but we have to start somewhere.

Yes right now is just an hypothesis (I think that is what you meant by "theory') with some evidence.

FYI: a theory is a series of verified scientific facts about a physical phenomena

Quote from: Jen61 on December 11, 2011, 06:08:59 PM
Epileptic fits were first consider an evil curse, then the product of a feeble mind. Later on we discover it had a biological origin. As the resolution of brain activity mapping increase our understanding of GID will grow. The sample size is small, but we have to start somewhere.

Yes right now is just an hypothesis (I think that is what you meant by "theory') with some evidence.

FYI: a theory is a series of verified scientific facts about a physical phenomena

Then what is your argument?  You have clearly stated an agreement on the fact there is no known cause.  Despite any progressive understanding on the matter, it still has not resulted in a factual conclusion.  Thus anyone arguing at this point that they feel their cause of transsexualism was adapted due to environmental influences, is in no way less valid from someone claiming it was biologically present, despite any studies conducted regarding either.  They are both opinions (yes, scientifically a hypothesis) with no fact to support either is true or false.  As we know and I've stated, opinion cannot be factual.  I cannot understand this argument.

Quote from: stldrmgrl on December 11, 2011, 06:22:06 PM
Then what is your argument?  You have clearly stated an agreement on the fact there is no known cause.  Despite any progressive understanding on the matter, it still has not resulted in a factual conclusion.  Thus anyone arguing at this point that they feel their cause of transsexualism was adapted due to environmental influences, is in no way less valid from someone claiming it was biologically present, despite any studies conducted regarding either.  They are both opinions (yes, scientifically a hypothesis) with no fact to support either is true or false.  As we know and I've stated, opinion is not factual, otherwise it would not be opinion.

You are right and so is everyone else.  I cannot understand this argument.

Let me try one more time. Two hundred years ago we did not know much about the biological origins of a variety of illness and disease; yet the enlightened scholars of that time suspected that all diseases or pathological states have a biological origin. There are thousand of disease that have clearly ascribe to genetic origins. The emerging research on GID indicates that genes and/or hormones are the causative of the condition. We do not know all the details yet, but there is no doubt that this condition is biological on nature.

Not reading anyone's posts, btw.

According to John Money, I'm a transsexual woman. Stupid bastard.

Quote from: Jen61 on December 11, 2011, 06:33:18 PM
Let me try one more time. Two hundred years ago we did not know much about the biological origins of a variety of illness and disease; yet the enlightened scholars of that time suspected that all diseases or pathological states have a biological origin. There are thousand of disease that have clearly ascribe to genetic origins. The emerging research on GID indicates that genes and/or hormones are the causative of the condition. We do not know all the details yet, but there is no doubt that this condition is biological on nature.

Hey I still believe in spontanous generation and I will argue with anyone who tells me otherwise.

Fortunately for you this is America -land of the Free- and you can believe anything you want. There are people in America who believe:

Earth is flat,
We did not land in the moon,
Evolution does not exists,
Homosexuals are an abomination,
Transsexuals are perverts,
HIV is G-d's punishment to homosexuals,
Women's place is in the kitchen,
African, Asian, and other Brown people are inferior to "white" people,
GID is an acquired learned lifestyle,
Jesus was just a prophet,
Santa does not exists,
Doctors do not make spellings mistakes,
Siddhartha was just another prophet,
what else ?

Quote from: Jen61 on December 11, 2011, 08:33:30 PM
Fortunately for you this is America -land of the Free- and you can believe anything you want. There are people in America who believe:

Earth is flat,
We did not land in the moon,
Evolution does not exists,
Homosexuals are an abomination,
Transsexuals are perverts,
HIV is G-d's punishment to homosexuals,
Women's place is in the kitchen,
African, Asian, and other Brown people are inferior to "white" people,
GID is an acquired learned lifestyle,
Jesus was just a prophet,
Santa does not exists,
Doctors do not make spellings mistakes,
Siddhartha was just another prophet,
what else ?

Only like 3 of those are true....sheesh even I knew that. LMAO

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 11, 2011, 08:36:34 PM
Only like 3 of those are true....sheesh even I knew that. LMAO

and they are ....

Quote from: Jen61 on December 11, 2011, 08:44:51 PM
and they are ....

Siddartha landin on the moon. Baby angel cosmic dust.

Oh yeah...those were the days. You see god in the disco ball.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 11, 2011, 08:47:10 PM
Siddartha landin on the moon. Baby angel cosmic dust.

Oh yeah...those were the days. You see god in the disco ball.

G-d is a waderful thing, you can even find her in a guitar

Quote from: Jen61 on December 11, 2011, 06:33:18 PM
Let me try one more time. Two hundred years ago we did not know much about the biological origins of a variety of illness and disease; yet the enlightened scholars of that time suspected that all diseases or pathological states have a biological origin. There are thousand of disease that have clearly ascribe to genetic origins. The emerging research on GID indicates that genes and/or hormones are the causative of the condition. We do not know all the details yet, but there is no doubt that this condition is biological on nature.

lol Jen, you are certainly entertaining.  Listen, I'm not going to do this with you.  My point is very simple...

Proven = fact
Not proven = opinion/hypothesis/theory

Nothing in terms of a confirmed cause of transsexualism has been proven.  You believe what you believe, and others believe what they believe.  Until something is scientifically proven otherwise, there is no right or wrong belief.  It is incorrect to denounce someone's opinion simply because you do not believe in it.  You certainly do not need to agree with it, but respect should be upheld.

As to the origin of this thread, I fully support the idea and diversity we all present in our personal beliefs of what a "transsexual woman" is and means to each of us.  To put it quite simply, you can travel by vehicle, airplane or boat and still reach the same destination.  Apply that to this situation, and hopefully it becomes a bit more clear.

I'm bowing out now, ta ta.

i think we should all quit trying to answer these questions. you just are who you are. you have an awareness of who you are, and that's all that matters in the end. people just need to learn to accept others for their differences. asking what a transsexual woman is, is just like asking what is man, woman, boy, or girl for that matter? people have different beliefs, but if you're secure enough in your own, there's no need to look any further. i remember you told me that before, mahsa. it's better to just live and be.

Quote from: Jen61 on December 11, 2011, 08:33:30 PM
Fortunately for you this is America -land of the Free- and you can believe anything you want. There are people in America who believe:

Earth is flat,
We did not land in the moon,
Evolution does not exists,
Homosexuals are an abomination,
Transsexuals are perverts,
HIV is G-d's punishment to homosexuals,
Women's place is in the kitchen,
African, Asian, and other Brown people are inferior to "white" people,
GID is an acquired learned lifestyle,
Jesus was just a prophet,
Santa does not exists,
Doctors do not make spellings mistakes,
Siddhartha was just another prophet,
what else ?

I believe Jesus was just a prophet, whatever that means, and I think Siddhartha was a misogynistic deadbeat dad who was overly glorified for coming up with stuff every suburban white male stoner teenager thinks about, Hesse be damned.

What are we talking about, exactly?

Quote from: Felix on December 11, 2011, 09:03:58 PM
I believe Jesus was just a prophet, whatever that means, and I think Siddhartha was a misogynistic deadbeat dad who was overly glorified for coming up with stuff every suburban white male stoner teenager thinks about, Hesse be damned.

What are we talking about, exactly?

The spoon in the moon man....

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 11, 2011, 09:16:34 PM
The spoon in the moon man....

Ho, Mahsa,

That was a good one, 

Good night ladies and gents

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 11, 2011, 08:13:23 PM
Hey I still believe in spontanous generation and I will argue with anyone who tells me otherwise.

Maggots from meat! Maggots! Meat!
(and mice from granaries, etc)
Awesome stuff. I'll back you up Mahsa.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 10, 2011, 04:31:15 PM
OMFG...LMAO

Why because I don't live in the transworld? Cuz I have the elitist "gay" attitude? Cuz I am upfront about sexuality and my past. I am sorry hun, I know I was born XY and I've accepted it. I happen to like that part in my pants. I am not gonna deny my past...that's idiotic.

There is nothing wrong inside of me, I am secure within myself and successful. I just don't live in the trans "bubble" and don't suspend my believe system. I don't see things through rose colored glasses.

The idea of living in a "bubble" bothers me a bit. I'm not suspending my belief system by not being defined by chromosomes, genitals, or anything else physical.  A chromosome is nothing other than a message, which might be read by the body (hence recessive genes and what not).  The Y chromosome is just a shriveled up former X chromosome that helps make sperm and determine sex.  After my orchiectomy, my Y chromosome does virtually nothing...  Well besides being used by other people to undermine my feelings of being female.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 10, 2011, 07:49:18 PM
I don't think transsexualism is a genetic trait. But is rather learned. Using my ex's child as an example...her dad my ex is a homosexual man and her mom is our former fruitfly and is a bisexual female raised her to be a girl, if she decides later she wants to be more like her dad... she might eventually use the concept of her dad, who is a masculine gay man to justify her GID or transsexualism.

Maybe your form of transsexualism is acquired, but you do not speak for everyone.

I'm not compensating by saying that I've always been female.  It's just what I feel.  I can't remember a time when I didn't feel this way.

I resent being told what I was or wasn't born with.  In the same way there's not conclusive evidence yet of a natal or genetic cause, there's certainly not the opposite either.  And as everyone is different, there may be multiple causes.

around the world there are millions of people of all ages including ones born in the last five minutes who have observable physical problems and deformities and we know that there are many who look fine at birth but will soon display problems in their brains that stop them living what should be the normal life for their particular societies - there is a special school for these people right next to my apartment - and we know that a very big 5/6/7/10% of all people will reject normal heterosexual stereotyping and live and love as LGBT - which all to me seems to point out that pregnancy can produce all sorts of misprogramming of bodies and brains - so transsexualism must have a biological basis.
A transsexual woman to me is one who has an inner femaleness that shows through from infancy regardless of attempts to suppress or modify it.
Logically a good percentage of transsexuals would also have the programming fault to be BLG.
Equally logically a good percentage of transsexuals would reject the GBL lifestyle and rights and want no contact with it and think it an abomination just as many 'normal' heterosexual men and women do.
Equally logically many of these normal heterosexuals hold their beliefs due to culture and social conditioning or their particular society who without this programming would have grown up to accept variances of what is right in their peers.

Why we TS get such a bad press and have so many LGB critics and fools who push reparist theories and laws is strange unless my belief in pheromonic addiction and brain altering is true and many LGBs are made not born.

We know that when young boys are cloistered together in schools and seminaries a lot become homosexual and the same applies to girls but girls easily demonstrate the possible causes for this in that their periods quite often synchronise which to me shows that hormones can easily modify subconscious brain activity that may bring on lesbianism.

I am certain that Mahsa's theory is totally wrong.