Kia Ora,

Perhaps 'self deception' would be a better way to express what I'm on about..."Pulling the wool over ones 'own' eyes !"

I can see where some of you are coming from, but the point I'm making[well trying to make] is there ARE some people [be a small minority of 'documented cases'] who for whatever reasons refuse/d to accept their 'sexual orientation'[same sex attraction] and will go to great lengths in an attempt to prove to the heteronormative society/community they live in 'they are NOT gay' to the extent of even fooling themselves *self deception* into believe that this is the case, and that the reason as to why they 'feel' & 'behave' the way they do is because they must be 'a woman trapped in a man's body'...Desperate times calls for desperate measures-so it would seem!

However just because a person might de-transition, does not necessarily mean they were 'gay' or 'not' transsexual... From what I gather some 'transsexual-people' have de-transitioned because of social/family pressures, in some cases they were not able to reach society's GIRL [Gender Identity Recognition Level], others have 'blended in' quite well, but missed their families who refuse to have anything to do with them unless they  reverted back to their birth sex ...

So as hard as it might seem for some members here, at times some 'gay' people change sex...

But I guess it's the same line of thought some cis-gender people adhere to, the ones who can't begin to imagine why a perfectly healthy bodied male or female would want to alter their bodies by HRT and have their sexual parts 'mutilated'  ![Their words not mine] ...

Metta Zenda

Quote from: Jen61 on December 16, 2011, 08:35:25 PM
I may be simplifying but:

1) If you are a male homosexual and you get a vagina and you still feel you are a male homosexual, then why to get the vagina in the first place. The whole reason of getting a vagina is to align the body with the mind, female body with female gender, right ?

Yes, you are really simplifying things now.

People have SRS for very different reasons and not only for one single reason, such as, for instance, the"Aligne the Soul-stuff".

Regarding the gay males wanting a Vagina, these guys for the very most part are extreme bottoms that wants a Vagina as that would be what would suit their sexuality the best, as these guys- The extreme bottoms- usually loaths to use their dicks sexually or even having them touched, but nonetheless wants to be able to have sex in a female way rather than male way, but nonetheless have no desire whatsoever to actually be and live as a female or changing their bodies apart from that(Although there are also those of them that occasionally wants to crossdress, too)

Some of these guys are fortunate enough to find an understanding surgeon that will agree to perform SRS upon them despite not being transsexuals, while others solves the dilemma it by learning the gate-keeping procedures and questions beforehand and then pretends to be transsexuals, goes on female hormones and dresses up for every visit to the shrink, only so that they will get the referral letters needed for the surgery.
When they have gotten the permission and had their surgery, they afterwards immediately stops the HRT and goes back to living as males again, now having the genitals they wanted.
Often, they also start Testosterone replacement to maintain their "male health" and to keep their sexdrive intact.

Regarding transgendered MTF's, on the other hand, there are many of those that have SRS only for sexual reasons, too; They don't think they really need SRS to be happy in the everyday life and have nothing "against" their male genitals per say, as many other MTF's may, but has SRS excludingly for sexual reasons and to be "sexually functional" in the way they want to be able to.
In my opinion, these chicks often actually turns out happier than those that have had SRS "just because", that is, because they have thought that "Ah well, better have SRS to be a "real woman"", or how to put it.

In my opinion, SRS and medical aid in the "Gender-field" should be avaible for anyone that have a genuine need for it and have thoroughly thought it through, regardless of direction of Gender identity or even sexual reasons.

Quote from: Akashiya Moka on December 16, 2011, 08:32:05 AM
~Gay men don't get sex changes.

Well, this one did: Transsexual regrets having operation

Quote from: Joandelynn on December 17, 2011, 11:01:01 AM
Well, this one did: Transsexual regrets having operation

Kia Ora Joandelynn,

WOW ! Thank you for finding this 'fascinating' video clip...I feel for the guy, and hope that he will eventually find peace of mind...

Metta Zenda

Quote from: spacial on December 07, 2011, 06:33:50 AM
This reminds me of the allegations regarding homosexuals up to the 60s. That basically, they were lonely, couldn't meet anyone of the opposite sex and resorted to what they could.

They understand members of their own sex better because that is all they know.

That they, especially male homosexuals, will do it with anyone or anything. That they have a Freudian bottom fixation.

This was backed by claims that most people in prisons, mental hospitals and similar institutions have homosexual relations with each other. Though no actual evidence was offered. (I once asked if that also applied to men on ships in the navy. But then I always did live dangerously).

I was somewhat disturbed recently to note that Julie Bindel claims that being gay is a choice. Disturbed because she used it to justify her strange negativity toward men.

The question surely is, how much control should society exercise over other people's bodies?

Should society legislate on hair style, for example? Or clothes? Should tatoos be banned, or earings? Do any of us need to justify our decisions at all?

If I or anyone chooses a surgical procedure, on our own body, with the express intention of altering our relationship with the rest of society, do we seriously need to justify that?

Your question makes me wonder. What about homosexual men who desires to have their genitals inverted but don't wish to become females? Josef Kirchner is an example. Should they be allowed to express their wish that way? Is there any psychological or medical harm for doing that?