Quote from: fionabell on December 16, 2011, 06:04:30 PM
It depends if you are single or not.

If you have a family don't do it.

If you are an only child and therefore the one hope of your parents, then don't do it.

Transitioning is a luxury. A luxury, people have done without for 1000's of years.

If it's going to destroy your life, don't do it. There are more important things in life than touchy feely gender identity.

I'm transitioning because I can. I feel I will look reasonably alright. It makes me happier and calmer than being a man and I have no responsibilities which I'd be shirking.

It's not like transition is going to certainly destroy those things, though it might.  Personally, my parents are prouder of me for it, and their hopes are just as much riding on me as ever.

QuoteIt's not a scientifically proven or god given right to me. I do feel feminine on the inside but that's about as much justification I can attach to it.

Does something only become true when it's scientifically proven?  Did gravity not exist before Newton, or did cells not exist before the microscope?

Point being - trans people don't need to wait on science to know what's in their own heart.  And when science demonstrates beyond a shadow of a doubt for everyone else to see, then all the better.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 18, 2011, 02:54:04 AM
I think transsexualism is partially an act of narcissism. For the narcissist expects the world to bend to her will and think everything +/- involves her. Her effeminate gay son is merely changing his/her body.

I really think, you don't know, what's all about.

Quote from: lilacwoman on December 18, 2011, 03:05:27 AM
Mahsa if we saw you walking down the street, into a hetero bar, getting a drink and sitting at a table woudl we say 'thats an effeminate gay guy?'  I think not.

Effem gays are very distinct as are non=passing TGs but no-one would confuse the two.

Most effem person I've seen recently was one of guys at LGBT conference I used to go to but there was nothing feminine about him yet he ran across the room like a prima ballerina.

Of course you wouldn't see me as one. But it doesn't change the reality that I am my Mom's son.

Quote from: annette on December 18, 2011, 03:11:17 AM
I really think, you don't know, what's all about.

So....People have different opinions. You probably don't know about the martin polar bear encampments on the moon. But I don't think you're wrong...I just think you believe there are no martin polar bear encampments on the moon.

We all believe different stuff.

Quote from: angelfaced on December 16, 2011, 12:44:39 PM
i feel bad in saying this and will never give advice to this question ( at least honestly ), if i didnt pass i wouldve killed myself.

Ditto here for me. Even at that, I botched twice. I haven't had those sorts of issues since my transition however. Once that was behind me, I never got depressed about the dysphoria after that.  That doesn't mean I don't get depressed from time to time... but it certainly isn't over my gender.

I must point out that I've seen many who I never thought would EVER pass, have done so quite admirably. I think that there are very few who can't make it work. I really don't want to discourage anyone from trying. That's what the year waiting period is all about.

Cindi

QuoteDoes something only become true when it's scientifically proven?  Did gravity not exist before Newton, or did cells not exist before the microscope?

Your point is further underscored by the fact that gravity is not proven "fact". It still remains "just a theory".   Where science is concerned, theory is supported by data. Facts are practically nonexistant.

Cindi

Quote from: Cindi Jones on December 18, 2011, 03:19:14 AM
Your point is further underscored by the fact that gravity is not proven "fact". It still remains "just a theory".   Where science is concerned, theory is supported by data. Facts are practically nonexistant.

Cindi

That's just being pedantic really.

Pedantic?  Yes.  I suppose that I didn't clarify "just a theory" better. It's the excuse that certain deniers use when they discount any science. They say that it's "just a theory".  Yes, gravity is "just a theory" too.

Cindi

Oh right, yeah, I feel ya blud.

Quote from: Lyric on December 17, 2011, 10:52:23 AM
I think I can safely say that anyone who genuinely answers "yes" (sorry! meant "no")  to this question is not truly transsexual and should not undergo HRT. I'm pretty sure practically all therapists and physicians would agree that.

I started HRT because it was my only choice, other than killing myself immediately due to the distress and pain of being in a male body.
If someone had told me that I could never pass, that it was impossible, that I would never look female... I would have killed myself; and I would have done so not because of the need to be seen as female by others (and treated as such by society), but for the simple reason that it would be unbearable to be condemned to a body that was not mine. Though I am a female in mind and heart, I can't believe that being sentenced to persist in a male body would not affect one's ability to truly embody one's Self; to feel female. Or to put it another way, I can't imagine how living in such a state would not drive one to acts of frequent self-harm, constant suicidal ideation, and a very early grave.

You can say I'm not a true transsexual if you'd like, because of my answer, but it wouldn't matter. All that matters is aligning my body with my mind; everything else—including people's opinions of me—is extraneous.

Quote from: fionabell on December 18, 2011, 01:45:29 AM
Should a parent who has a deep seated desire to take drugs and go out every night have a moral right to?

Why not ? They are depressed. Their life is hell. The day to day grind is like sinking in quicksand. They have sorrow and pain and their extended family members just don't understand their need for cocaine and hookers.

I'm sorry Fiona, I really don't want you to feel bad... It's not my wish to hurt anyone, so if I have, I apologize.

...But with that said though, I do find it kind of unbelievable that you are equating the 'need' for 'cocaine and hookers' in this hypothetical, with the need to seek positive treatment for a recognized medical condition (with a biological basis in reality). ~You have every right to your opinion though, and I guess it'll just be one of those things that we can agree to disagree on.

Quote from: Akashiya Moka on December 18, 2011, 04:21:53 AM
I started HRT because it was my only choice, other than killing myself immediately due to the distress and pain of being in a male body.
If someone had told me that I could never pass, that it was impossible, that I would never look female... I would have killed myself; and I would have done so not because of the need to be seen as female by others (and treated as such by society), but for the simple reason that it would be unbearable to be condemned to a body that was not mine. Though I am a female in mind and heart, I can't believe that being sentenced to persist in a male body would not affect one's ability to truly embody one's Self; to feel female. Or to put it another way, I can't imagine how living in such a state would not drive one to acts of frequent self-harm, constant suicidal ideation, and a very early grave.

You can say I'm not a true transsexual if you'd like, because of my answer, but it wouldn't matter. All that matters is aligning my body with my mind; everything else—including people's opinions of me—is extraneous.

i think you've missed the part where she corrected it. that was a mistake made from typing fastly.

I would try, if I still don't succeed in the end, I'd end my miserable life

This is a bit of a loaded question. Everyone can pass. There are simply striations to the level of effort any individual must endure to reach that goal. For instance, some people pass pre-everything, and some struggle even after FFS/BA and two years of HRT. The issue isn't if, but when. Now, for me personally, when I came out to my father one of the things I put out there was that,

QuoteI'm fully prepared to end up somewhere in the middle, and I know that might happen, and I'm okay with that.

i would probably still transition, but i'd be very depressed about still being perceived as a male by everyone

I've actually had to come back to this post as I was (and still am) saddened at the suicidal mentions.
I actually think that this type of question is quite negative - Let me explain:

I'm curious, if you "knew" you wouldn't "pass," would you still transition anyway?

That's the great thing. You DON'T know... do you?... really. Unless you take those steps to transition, you'll never know- and the only thing holding you back is the fear of fear itself.

And here's the really delightful part. In three years time when you come to the realisation that you may not "pass" as a woman, you'll be a completely different person, like totally.
The choices that you've made. Decisions that you acted on. This would make you a stronger, wise and more importantly- would give you choice. You'd probably be bold in character not to care what others think, or strong enough to save for the FFS? 

Who knows really ?  You certainly don't, until you face the fear, and take that first step that makes up all those miles...

Love and Respect

Jenny

OXOXOXO

I wouldn't have transition if I weren't going to pass AND be attractive.
I know for sure I was cute as a male, I would have just stayed that way and find a caring partner who'd treat me as less masculine as possible.
I would have told him about my dysphoria and stuff.

I don't know, looks are very important for me.

Quote from: Jenny_B_Good on January 03, 2012, 07:50:33 AM
I've actually had to come back to this post as I was (and still am) saddened at the suicidal mentions.
I actually think that this type of question is quite negative - Let me explain:

I'm curious, if you "knew" you wouldn't "pass," would you still transition anyway?

That's the great thing. You DON'T know... do you?... really. Unless you take those steps to transition, you'll never know- and the only thing holding you back is the fear of fear itself.

And here's the really delightful part. In three years time when you come to the realisation that you may not "pass" as a woman, you'll be a completely different person, like totally.
The choices that you've made. Decisions that you acted on. This would make you a stronger, wise and more importantly- would give you choice. You'd probably be bold in character not to care what others think, or strong enough to save for the FFS? 

Who knows really ?  You certainly don't, until you face the fear, and take that first step that makes up all those miles...

Love and Respect

Jenny

OXOXOXO

I don't think I would change that much in a positive way.

It seems more likely that after probably alienating most of the people around me as in friends and family, going through what it seems will be awkward transition period dealing with a very uncaring and possibly hostile society. Only to realize, after you've spent a couple years wasting money and striving to reach a goal, you may never pass and possibly look like something you can't stand to see since it's nowhere near your expectations.

I've thought a lot about this lately, on if I could ever pass and I just feel that situation would lead to a deep depression instead of an empowering attitude of "this is me screw everyone who doesn't like it" cause really they aren't the main problem, if you don't pass and that is your goal then it's if you like it or not. How can you live with that kind of failure? Would it really hurt less to see yourself in the mirror and kind of look female yet still see that male you hated poking through so much? To me it just seems like postponing the inevitable.

Quote from: Akashiya Moka on December 18, 2011, 04:21:53 AM
If someone had told me that I could never pass, that it was impossible, that I would never look female... I would have killed myself

I'm sorry to hear you had such extreme feelings, but such suicidal feelings generally has deeper roots than GID. A person in solid psychological health tends to base their sense of self worth from their inner core rather than needing constant verification from strangers. My thought was that a person who is truly TS would want to live in her/his target ID regardless and external verification would be optional-- though an understandably important option. There are even genetic females who usually appear males to strangers, but they don't live as men because of that. There are people who manage to live fulfilling lives in spite of all sorts of personal obsticles-- many much worse than GID issues.

Lyric ~

Quote from: Sarah7 on January 03, 2012, 11:41:31 AM
I find this a somewhat frustrating assumption. Passing to other people was irrelevant (and rather easy). Passing to myself was what mattered. GID is (at least partly) a discomfort with your physical form... is it such a HUGE stretch to imagine that some folks might have issues with more than their crotches? That I could find my facial structure appalling enough to wish for death over continuation of that pain? If I could learn to be okay with my body, why the hell would I even transition?

Something like 40% of (still living) trans folk have attempted suicide. Obviously we are all super disturbed.

I echo this notion. A person's environment is often an enormous contributing factor to major depression. Feeling unable to and restricted from interacting with your environment, or feeling condemned to interact with your environment in a highly unpleasant manner, would lead many people to a dangerous mental state - the same is true of many non-human animals.

Well, it seems to me that what you are describing is the stage of a process that you are in. I guess a lot of TS folks, sadly, never grow beyond it. Sooner or later, though, I think one must recognize their own uniqueness and find satisfaction from within rather than depend entirely upon verification from without.

Have you ever seen a transgender person who you thought didn't pass at all, but who seemed happy with her/his self? I have-- there are a few on this forum. There's an interesting phenomenon of human nature at play, I think. We tend to receive  happiness from the very effort of creating/accomplishing something-- not as much from the results of that creation.

You're on it, Sarah, when you say mention "Passing to myself" is important to you. You could be a ringer for Megan Fox and still not do that. Apparently if you stick around and deal, though, eventually you find a way.