Quote from: Annah on January 02, 2012, 10:40:13 AM
If he is dating me simply because I am trans...no. I wont date him. If he dates me because he finds me attractive and I find him attractive, I do not tell him I am trans until after he asks me out. This way, i know he isn't wanting to sleep with me because "I am a chick with a dick." I will know he likes me all around rather than some external appendage hanging between my legs.

I don't become open about being trans to a guy I like until he asks me out first. Makes the biggest difference in the world. i separate the wheat from the chaff that way. My BF had no idea I was born male until he asked me out. We've been dating for several months now, and I feel better knowing it wasn't pursing a label. Rather, he was pursuing me.

I agree entirely. To suggest that the only reactions are fetishization, repulsion, and pretend-it-didn't-happen is false.

To put it shortly, I am trans, but I am far more than that. I consider my transness a fundamentally positive part of what makes me me. What I'd love is for the people I love to think of it the same way. What I don't want is for my transness to eclipse my entire being. That's what all three of those false choices have in common. I am nothing but "trans" to them; the only difference is in what they do about it. Everything else that makes me who I am is meaningless to them.

I wouldn't go out with somebody who liked me just because I was trans, no more I would go out with somebody who liked me just because I had a big nose, or that I was white, or slim. I don't mind if that was one of the reasons, but I'd rather it be down to several reasons, mostly based around my character. He should like me whether I'm trans or not - being trans shouldn't be the turning point over whether he likes me or stops liking me.

Quote from: Bishounen on January 02, 2012, 10:58:04 AM
Well, there are good "->-bleeped-<-likers"out there, but the good ones are not the so called ->-bleeped-<-s but the so called Admirers, as they do not care a fluff about what the T-person have or not have between the legs, while the so called ->-bleeped-<-->-bleeped-<-, on the other hand, is only interested in whether the person "has the tools" or not, and if it is "functional". If the ->-bleeped-<- doesn't, then the ->-bleeped-<- runs, no matter how beautiful or great personality She/He has.

Nikki explains it further at 00:43: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8ifY6U7DRxM#t=43s

I am deaf and the voice recognition closed captioning software still sucks - so that video is inaccessible to me. You'll have to write what she says for me.

Quote from: Annah on January 02, 2012, 11:08:32 AM
Many trans will disagree with you. I am one of them. I only identify as trans on this website and a very select few public arenas. In "real life" I am seen as a woman and I see myself as a woman. As I said in earlier posts, I am not ashamed of the label "transsexual" or "transgender" but I have come to a point in my life where the label no longer defines me. My birthcertificate, driver's license, passport, and all other paperwork currently says female. I prefer to be identified as female. The label "transsexual" for me is a label for an imperfect society to explain who this woman isn't a "real woman"...there must be a past to her.

Perhaps - but it is our cross to bear to carry with us for the rest of our lives. We can decide which we are first, woman or trans, but we achieved the right to call ourselves women by becoming trans. without becoming trans, we would have not been able to do so

nope....but show me a man who wants you as a trans because of your personality rather than the thing between your legs. I haven't met one. Not saying they do not exist, but I am saying the ratio is pretty large between the men who want you for your transsexual personality versus your transsexual physical situation.

I have met men who liked me becaue of my trans aspect - like they said, they are impressed and amazed at the courage it takes to transition and that makes me a stronger person and they liiked that.

Be careful with your ideas....because there is a such thing as out and proud transsexual elitism who puts down others because they don't do what others do just as there is with stealth tanssexualism elitism.

True, there may be slealth people who worked for us behind the scenes and we will never know, and since they chose to go sleath, we cannot very well give them any credit for it. * shrugs *  the out and proud ones, on the other hand, receive all the credit because they are on the front lines receiving the bullets for us. It is how it is.


Oh and good job on being an activist! ever since I came out at my workplace, I ve been thrust in the role of being an advocate and activist - albeit a reluctant one as I hate being in the spotlight heh 

Quote from: Sarah7 on January 02, 2012, 11:34:04 AM
Does it all have to be so either/or?

For me, transsexualism is just the condition I was born with. I'm no more proud of it than I am of my migraines. On the other hand I am proud that I'm breathing, that I transitioned, that I've made myself into a creature that I can respect through a pretty heroic force of will. So I'm not exactly proud to BE trans, but I'm proud of what I've done with that. I get why someone might be attracted to my history. It's pretty intense.

As to the other... no I'm not out and proud. But all the important people in my life know about my history - my friends, my family, etc. Everyone else... not so much. Honestly, I'd like to be out. But the world we live in... I can't trust people to see me as ME after I tell them, unless they already know me. So that keeps my mouth shut. If things were different... I'm out about being gay, but not about being trans. At least for now. I am still pretty young and newly transitioned, lots of time to change my mind if I want. And it's much harder to go from not-stealth to stealth, than from stealth to not-stealth. So partly I'm just keeping my options open.

I respect people's decisions to go slealth or not - i just am happy that i am able to be out and open about it... so that it doesnt bother me if people like me because I am trans. It is a rarity to meet trans people, so I understand and accept that I m probably going to be a novelty for the rest of my life.

I suppose... that being involved in the LGBT community previously as a gay man and now as a trans woman pretty much sealed the question of going sleath or not for me as I already had support and resources right there and people around me (who I care to associate with) are of open minded ilk.

Quote from: tekla on January 02, 2012, 11:48:24 AM


4.  I don't date, I just sleep around a lot, so that entire issues misses me.

Sounds pretty much like me right now - except I date and sleep around a lot 

The video doesn't say any more than what had been summarized by Bishounen.
She just goes on about participating in American Idol and being disrespected by Joan Osbourne and than she is a part of a house of something that I am not familiar with.
That's it really.

Quote from: envie on January 02, 2012, 12:49:23 PM
recently a guy who I went out with and came out to him said this"

"I have to figure out if I'd want to date you in spite or because of your trans status. I'd rather not do it just out of curiosity for what would it be like to be with someone who is trans".

I really appreciated his honesty and it kind of summons it up for me what kind of a guy I'd like to be with. With some one who is interested in me beyond the trans status, and not because of it.

Ive had guys who were attracted to me initally because I was trans but then got to know me beyond that and they still liked me. So that is one reason I don't see any big problem with the trans aspect being the first thing they like about you because it can lead to getting to know you more.

Again, I reiterate - it is just the same as someone being attracted to me initially because I am Asian then he gets to know me more beyond my race and skin color. It is no different.

Quote from: Assoluta on January 02, 2012, 01:14:33 PM
I wouldn't go out with somebody who liked me just because I was trans, no more I would go out with somebody who liked me just because I had a big nose, or that I was white, or slim. I don't mind if that was one of the reasons, but I'd rather it be down to several reasons, mostly based around my character. He should like me whether I'm trans or not - being trans shouldn't be the turning point over whether he likes me or stops liking me.

oh please, have you ever heard of the white guy/asian chick phenomenon (in America, that is)?? I am an Asian chick and I have an overwhelming lust and attraction for white guys and I would go out with someone who was average and white rather than a guy who was hot and black just because he was white.

You girls, we already face so much discrimination, violence, and hatred - let's not make things any harder on ourselves by spitting on people who like us for being trans or getting all hissy/fussy because our trans statuses came into the pictures.

Let's show all of the people who are in our corners, including ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s, yes, some love and applause! 

as long as they were trans i wouldn't have a problem 

Quote from: MsDazzler on January 02, 2012, 03:55:46 PM
You girls, we already face so much discrimination, violence, and hatred - let's not make things any harder on ourselves by spitting on people who like us for being trans or getting all hissy/fussy because our trans statuses came into the pictures.

Let's show all of the people who are in our corners, including ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s, yes, some love and applause! 

I don't know what else to say really.  If you are happy announcing to the world that you are trans, that's great, really.  But I'm not.  I will admit to being trans, but I will not flaunt it.  I will not use it or allow it to be used as leverage in a relationship.

I am proud to be transitioning and becoming who I am, but once that is done, for me personally, my "trans" status will become obsolete.  I'll be more interested in simply living my life as a woman, blending in with society while still occasionally advocating equal rights for the LGBT community.  It seems we fight so hard through transition and our own lives, meanwhile helping those along the way that we can also, that once we finally reach the point of completion...we'd be exhausted; "trans" anything in some ways would seem to become an old broken record.  I will always support the LGBT community, but I also want a personal life outside the transgender realm.  I don't feel this is selfish in any way, I feel it is earned.

I've despised people who exclusively only date Asians or Black. I have a family member who'd date only black guys and if you ask me that is a form of racism as well.
No different from dating exclusively Trans-women.

What if you had breast cancer and a guy comes along who loves the fact that you had double mastectomy?
Or if you were born without legs and a guy is being curious about dating someone in the wheelchair? 

Creepy I say!!!

Quote from: Amazon D on January 02, 2012, 03:57:03 PM
as long as they were trans i wouldn't have a problem 

oh you are into other trans people only?

Quote from: envie on January 02, 2012, 04:34:05 PM
I've despised people who exclusively only date Asians or Black. I have a family member who'd date only black guys and if you ask me that is a form of racism as well.
No different from dating exclusively Trans-women.

What if you had breast cancer and a guy comes along who loves the fact that you had double mastectomy?
Or if you were born without legs and a guy is being curious about dating someone in the wheelchair? 

Creepy I say!!!

I don't think wanting to date someone becaues they are a certain race is racist. Attraction and friendship are two different things.

Lots of deaf people want to date other deaf people and even seek them out so. Does it mean it is audist? Nahh...

Quote from: ~Amy~ on January 02, 2012, 04:24:04 PM


I don't know what else to say really.  If you are happy announcing to the world that you are trans, that's great, really.  But I'm not.  I will admit to being trans, but I will not flaunt it.  I will not use it or allow it to be used as leverage in a relationship.

I am proud to be transitioning and becoming who I am, but once that is done, for me personally, my "trans" status will become obsolete.  I'll be more interested in simply living my life as a woman, blending in with society while still occasionally advocating equal rights for the LGBT community.  It seems we fight so hard through transition and our own lives, meanwhile helping those along the way that we can also, that once we finally reach the point of completion...we'd be exhausted; "trans" anything in some ways would seem to become an old broken record.  I will always support the LGBT community, but I also want a personal life outside the transgender realm.  I don't feel this is selfish in any way, I feel it is earned.

I think you got me figured all wrong - I am not the "in your face" trans woman type. I am just honest about it and willing to put my money where my mouth is by getting involved with transgender activism (albeit reluctantly). I pretty much lead my life daily just as a normal woman but my trans aspect is always there and part of me. To pretend otherwise is to wilfully ignore the reality of my situation and the cross I have to bear.

Maybe to clarify - for me, I am trans first, a woman second. Without having became transgender, I would have not claimed the right to call myself a woman. My license says F , not T, but I am not kidding myself. The doctors and government enabled the switch from M to F because of my trans status, not because I just marched up to them and said, "I am a woman! Change it now!" And you know the transitioning process takes a lot of money, energy, etc, etc.

To me it is a compliment, recognition of my sufferings, tears, laughter, and journey when someone likes me because I am trans. He knows how hard the path was for me.

Progress cannot be made without visibility; it is okay if some of you prefer to stay in the background and behind the scenes.

Quote from: MsDazzler on January 02, 2012, 04:54:14 PM
I think you got me figured all wrong - I am not the "in your face" trans woman type. I am just honest about it and willing to put my money where my mouth is by getting involved with transgender activism (albeit reluctantly). I pretty much lead my life daily just as a normal woman but my trans aspect is always there and part of me. To pretend otherwise is to wilfully ignore the reality of my situation and the cross I have to bear.

Maybe to clarify - for me, I am trans first, a woman second. Without having became transgender, I would have not claimed the right to call myself a woman. My license says F , not T, but I am not kidding myself. The doctors and government enabled the switch from M to F because of my trans status, not because I just marched up to them and said, "I am a woman! Change it now!" And you know the transitioning process takes a lot of money, energy, etc, etc.

To me it is a compliment, recognition of my sufferings, tears, laughter, and journey when someone likes me because I am trans. He knows how hard the path was for me.

Progress cannot be made without visibility; it is okay if some of you prefer to stay in the background and behind the scenes.

Perhaps I did have you figured wrong, and I apologize.  Your views are valid and understandable, no doubt.  But I suppose it's for neither of us to say really, as it's a feeling reserved for those who have finished transitioning; but my assumption is that perhaps in time, living as a woman full-time, no longer transitioning and having nearly completely suppressed all things male, being trans sort of fades to the subconscious and being a woman becomes the more conscious self-identification.  I only say this because I've heard others say that they "forgot" they were trans.  Though that's certainly a bit of an exaggeration I feel, the relative point remains.

Just an FYI, though - saying you wouldn't have the right to call yourself a woman without being trans is a bit confusing; for if you were not trans, I cannot see why you'd want to call yourself a woman 

Nonetheless, I find you to be a remarkable person for your outlook and logic.  It is admirable.

Quote from: MsDazzler on January 02, 2012, 04:46:37 PM
I don't think wanting to date someone becaues they are a certain race is racist. Attraction and friendship are two different things.

Lots of deaf people want to date other deaf people and even seek them out so. Does it mean it is audist? Nahh...

Deaf people may want to date deaf people because they have one thing in common which is being deaf. May be they are concerned about the communication as not that many people who hear know the ESL.

I've had long term relationship with a person who happened to be Asian but she was a musician as I am. I wanted to date a woman whose life experience crossed coincidentally with mine who happened to be black.
I'd like for someone to date me because we have some commonalities and I just happen to be trans. Or even if my trans status had given me some interesting character as I've lived my life in both genders that would be fine. But for someone who clocks me and goes after me because of that! NO!

I do think that preferring one race over the other is a form of racism even if its only in dating.

Kia Ora,

Umm so just to clarify things re the '->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s' The correct definition of the term ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-'[Well according to the 'Zendapedia' that is] : A ->-bleeped-<- '->-bleeped-<-' is NOT a 'fanny' ->-bleeped-<-, for if they like fannies they would NOT be into ->-bleeped-<-s -'without' fannies....[Fanny= In this case does 'not' refer to the North American term for buttocks - But a British term for the female vulva ]...* On second thoughts, for the North American definition I guess a ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<- 'IS' a fanny ->-bleeped-<--if you get my drift * 

But on a more serious note....Who knows what really goes on in the minds of the potential partner of a woman use used to live as a man [Or the man who used to live as a woman !] Whatever turn one on I say ![So long as they are not intentionally harming anybody !-* Sadomasochism* being the exception  ]

After all how many people 'really' say what's on their mind 'all of the time'? Just imagine if we all did, what would our world be like ?


Metta Zenda

Quote from: envie on January 02, 2012, 05:08:46 PM
Deaf people may want to date deaf people because they have one thing in common which is being deaf. May be they are concerned about the communication as not that many people who hear know the ESL.

I've had long term relationship with a person who happened to be Asian but she was a musician as I am. I wanted to date a woman whose life experience crossed coincidentally with mine who happened to be black.
I'd like for someone to date me because we have some commonalities and I just happen to be trans. Or even if my trans status had given me some interesting character as I've lived my life in both genders that would be fine. But for someone who clocks me and goes after me because of that! NO!

I do think that preferring one race over the other is a form of racism even if its only in dating.

ESL? Don't you mean ASL, as in American Sign Language? 

There is this transgender club called Divas in San Francisco - I go there once or twice a month to "be around my sistas"... and to flirt with admirers and ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s there.

I don't find it insulting or narrow that they are there because they liked trans women. It is ironic, really. The shoe is on the other foot - mine, so to speak. Instead of focusing on the fact that they liked me because I was trans, I had to get beyond that and get to know them more. Ironic, isnt it?

There are black clubs, Latino clubs, etc. People who flock there are either the corresponding color or people who lust after or admire them. There is nothing inherently racist in it just as there is nothing inherently wrong with the men who goes to transgender clubs.