Quote from: Maya Zimmerman on January 02, 2012, 04:48:12 PM
Be careful what you wish for.

／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼

You mean be careful to get it in writing right?

I would say that I would give both my left and right nuts to be a beautiful woman, but I don't think the devil would fall for it.

Quote from: MsDazzler on January 02, 2012, 04:18:19 PM
thank you! I butted heads with some people last night just because I mentioned looks was ONE of the factors in my decision to transition and got lambasted for that.

Maybe because you ignited their competitve instinct from blowing your own trumpet? 

One thing I've worked out from gg's is that it's extremely taboo to mention that you are good looking. I'm pretty socially clueless, but I think i'm on the money with this one.

Quote from: Felix on December 29, 2011, 10:11:49 PM
What's wrong with being an ugly woman?

This.   Remember a while back my hubby went through the "do I pass thread" and he thought everyone was a natural born woman.  He did think some looked old and some looked heavier and not so attractive, but he generally thought everyone was a woman.

Not all women are knock outs.  I use whoopie goldberg as an example because when I think of whoopie I don't even think about her being 'pretty" or "hot" she's just a completely different kind of energy.  I wouldn't want to be ME and look like Whoopie, but I wouldn't mind "being Whoopie" if you know what I mean.

So find your energy and deal with it.  We all have things about ourselves that we think are not good enough.  If you want to stay down there in the dumps you can do it.

But you can also create a fantastically interesting woman that emanates her beauty as who she is, not just what she looks like.  Of course if you want to be a fake plastic sort of looking woman you can also do that too, but you'll need to save a bunch of money and get work done.

Find your priority and follow it.

Quote from: mixie on January 02, 2012, 06:56:21 PM

This.   Remember a while back my hubby went through the "do I pass thread" and he thought everyone was a natural born woman.  He did think some looked old and some looked heavier and not so attractive, but he generally thought everyone was a woman.

Not all women are knock outs.  I use whoopie goldberg as an example because when I think of whoopie I don't even think about her being 'pretty" or "hot" she's just a completely different kind of energy.  I wouldn't want to be ME and look like Whoopie, but I wouldn't mind "being Whoopie" if you know what I mean.

So find your energy and deal with it.  We all have things about ourselves that we think are not good enough.  If you want to stay down there in the dumps you can do it.

But you can also create a fantastically interesting woman that emanates her beauty as who she is, not just what she looks like.  Of course if you want to be a fake plastic sort of looking woman you can also do that too, but you'll need to save a bunch of money and get work done.

Find your priority and follow it.

Some very good points. I once met a trans woman who was rather on the large side, looked quite masculine and spoke with a deep voice, far from looking like a conventionally attractive woman. However, she was vivacious, intelligent, engaging and radiant, and for this reason she was an interesting woman of character, and an attractive personality - somebody who you enjoyed being with. I think she was one of my best examples of somebody not passing but still ultimately being happy with life.

Oh, oh, oh,  can I merge this with my fork scenario thread? Another fork scenario here!

  You don't really know unless you try. Believe me i've seen some amazing transformations of some MTF that you'd think wouldn't have a chance in hell but they turned out passable. Taking hormones is the first step, no it isn't gonna turn you into a super model but hormones do wonders if taken properly, if you want it bad enough  and put fourth the effort you'd be really surprised at what you can do.

  Don't give in so easily! 

Quote from: Asha on January 02, 2012, 11:41:08 PM

  You don't really know unless you try. Believe me i've seen some amazing transformations of some MTF that you'd think wouldn't have a chance in hell but they turned out passable. Taking hormones is the first step, no it isn't gonna turn you into a super model but hormones do wonders if taken properly, if you want it bad enough  and put fourth the effort you'd be really surprised at what you can do.

  Don't give in so easily! 

Wrong - the first physical step (aside from attitude and mental realigment)  is learning how to present as female properly as in clothes, make up, hair, and behavior. Hormones can't save you if you still dress and act like a man

Quote from: MsDazzler on January 02, 2012, 11:57:18 PM
Wrong - the first physical step (aside from attitude and mental realigment)  is learning how to present as female properly as in clothes, make up, hair, and behavior. Hormones can't save you if you still dress and act like a man

How exactly do "women" present?  Since you speak for all of them apparently? 

Wrong, that's what is important to YOU.   IMO you look like a beautiful plastic.  But there are quite a few plain janes on here that I would think were totally cisgender without any make up and without over doing it.  Even though it is absolutely fantastic to look gorgeous, especially if you want to and love to be fabulous,  that's what makes a barbie doll, not a woman.

IMO being a woman comes from within,  otherwise you wouldn't be transitioning in the first place.  If what makes you a woman is what you look like on the outside then why in the world is this website even here?

Being a woman is knowing who you are and embracing it.  So if you want to wear tons of make up and look done up and gorgeous then more power to you.

But I know plenty of drop dead gorgeous women who don't need to wear any makeup at all.

Like this one



or this one

Quote from: mixie on January 03, 2012, 12:03:36 AM
How exactly do "women" present?  Since you speak for all of them apparently? 

Wrong, that's what is important to YOU.   IMO you look like a beautiful plastic.  But there are quite a few plain janes on here that I would think were totally cisgender without any make up and without over doing it.  Even though it is absolutely fantastic to look gorgeous, especially if you want to and love to be fabulous,  that's what makes a barbie doll, not a woman.

IMO being a woman comes from within,  otherwise you wouldn't be transitioning in the first place.  If what makes you a woman is what you look like on the outside then why in the world is this website even here?

Being a woman is knowing who you are and embracing it.  So if you want to wear tons of make up and look done up and gorgeous then more power to you.

But I know plenty of drop dead gorgeous women who don't need to wear any makeup at all.

lol, obviously you missed the thread where I engaged in a fierce debate with few posters about appearances being a signficiant, if not deciding, factor in transition for some people.

I am too exhausted to go into that again so hopefully you can read it for yourself?

Mahsa also is an ardent advocate of makeup being the magic that makes us pass better.

and when you say a "beautiful plastic", were you referring to me or to the OP? Because i have not had any FFS or plastic done at all on my face, heh

I think she was referring to the "plastics" in the movie mean girls. They were the beautiful done-up girls.

Quote from: mixie on January 03, 2012, 12:03:36 AM
How exactly do "women" present?  Since you speak for all of them apparently? 

Wrong, that's what is important to YOU.   IMO you look like a beautiful plastic.  But there are quite a few plain janes on here that I would think were totally cisgender without any make up and without over doing it.  Even though it is absolutely fantastic to look gorgeous, especially if you want to and love to be fabulous,  that's what makes a barbie doll, not a woman.

IMO being a woman comes from within,  otherwise you wouldn't be transitioning in the first place.  If what makes you a woman is what you look like on the outside then why in the world is this website even here?

Being a woman is knowing who you are and embracing it.  So if you want to wear tons of make up and look done up and gorgeous then more power to you.

But I know plenty of drop dead gorgeous women who don't need to wear any makeup at all.

Like this one



or this one

   + 1 mixie

Quote from: MsDazzler on January 03, 2012, 12:14:58 AM
Mahsa also is an ardent advocate of makeup being the magic that makes us pass better.

and when you say a "beautiful plastic", were you referring to me or to the OP? Because i have not had any FFS or plastic done at all on my face, heh

^{edit-personal attacks - Forum admin}

Quote from: Melody Maia on January 03, 2012, 12:20:29 AM
I think she was referring to the "plastics" in the movie mean girls. They were the beautiful done-up girls.

Oh yes I was,  Ms. Dazzler,  I personally think you look gorgeous,  but one of the reasons I think you look gorgeous is that you are happy with the way you look.  It's not because of the make up etc.  You enjoy getting dolled up and being fabulous.

Personally though when women wear lots of make up (you don't seem to be in the pix) they come across like the Jersey Shore girls.  Now here in Brooklyn we definitely have those kinds of women but among women I hang out with they are usually considered shallow and sort of "tacky" when they dress up like that.

Lots and lots of women enjoy looking this way and it looks amazing and exciting and almost like a celebrity.  So I'm not knocking the look, I'm just saying that you seem to think this is required of women to "pass."

If I saw you or Melody and someone asked me to guess who was trans I would say you in about three seconds flat.  Also if you asked me who I would prefer to look like I would say Melody in about two seconds flat.  Not that you don't both look beautiful, but Melody sort of reflects more about who I identify with as a woman.

So it just seems a bit off to go to someone you don't really know and say "This is what you need to do to be a woman,  fix your hair, put on make up etc etc>"

I watch 30 Rock and Jenna and Liz Lemon are a really good example of what the difference is like.   No one looks at Liz Lemon and says she's a man because she isn't done up,  they just realize it's not much of a priority to her.

[quote a >:-)uthor=Guantanamera link=topic=113080.msg863093#msg863093 date=1325547888]
You mean be careful to get it in writing right?

I would say that I would give both my left and right nuts to be a beautiful woman, but I don't think the devil would fall for it.
[/quote]

Quote from: sysm29 on December 29, 2011, 09:31:46 PM
I would sell my soul to the Devil to be a beautiful woman. 

...I'll send over the application asap 

We've seen photos of the OP. He's a good looking guy and would make a hot woman.

Quote from: Asha on January 03, 2012, 12:27:13 AM
  I'm sorry Dazzler but for being advocates of makeup and fashion both you and Mahsa don't really look that good at all.

  You both look more like Drag queens with way to much makeup on then women IMHO.

  Sorry had to be said. LOL

I wouldn't say Mahsa looks like a drag queen

Actually, I've decided to let the moderators handle this post.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on January 03, 2012, 12:59:30 AM


And you look like a nerd in drag. Sorry had to be said.

Are you insane?  She looks like a young Juliet Binoche!  No way would I ever think that was not a woman.


Would you and Ms Dazzler please stop using the smite system to bully people.  I mean we can read the reputation system.  It's kinda dumb to do that.


And I don't think Mahsa looks like a drag queen either,  I think she looks amazing. 

Quote from: mixie on January 03, 2012, 12:34:17 AM
Oh yes I was,  Ms. Dazzler,  I personally think you look gorgeous,  but one of the reasons I think you look gorgeous is that you are happy with the way you look.  It's not because of the make up etc.  You enjoy getting dolled up and being fabulous.

Personally though when women wear lots of make up (you don't seem to be in the pix) they come across like the Jersey Shore girls.  Now here in Brooklyn we definitely have those kinds of women but among women I hang out with they are usually considered shallow and sort of "tacky" when they dress up like that.

Lots and lots of women enjoy looking this way and it looks amazing and exciting and almost like a celebrity.  So I'm not knocking the look, I'm just saying that you seem to think this is required of women to "pass."

If I saw you or Melody and someone asked me to guess who was trans I would say you in about three seconds flat.  Also if you asked me who I would prefer to look like I would say Melody in about two seconds flat.  Not that you don't both look beautiful, but Melody sort of reflects more about who I identify with as a woman.

So it just seems a bit off to go to someone you don't really know and say "This is what you need to do to be a woman,  fix your hair, put on make up etc etc>"

I watch 30 Rock and Jenna and Liz Lemon are a really good example of what the difference is like.   No one looks at Liz Lemon and says she's a man because she isn't done up,  they just realize it's not much of a priority to her.

I realize you are just being diplomatic about your opinion about makeup. I get it.

I don't always wear makeup as you can see if you went to "the before and after" thread and viewed my everyday pic video. I can alternate between no makeup or wear makeup - I just love wearing makeup.

Some women do NEED makeup to pass and they need to acknowledge it instead of fighting it.

Quote from: mixie on January 03, 2012, 01:09:54 AM

Would you and Ms Dazzler please stop using the smite system to bully people.  I mean we can read the reputation system.  It's kinda dumb to do that.

Bullying? Oh please - i hardly smite people, i m far from being one! i am not not going to justify why she deserved the two smites. It is there for a reason and please don't tell me who I can smite for what.

Quote from: MsDazzler on January 03, 2012, 01:27:02 AM
I realize you are just being diplomatic about your opinion about makeup. I get it.

I don't always wear makeup as you can see if you went to "the before and after" thread and viewed my everyday pic video. I can alternate between no makeup or wear makeup - I just love wearing makeup.

Some women do NEED makeup to pass and they need to acknowledge it instead of fighting it.

Well I disagree.  If you said that some women NEED makeup for YOU to think that they pass, I would agree.   But I don't think any woman needs "make up" to be who she is.   Passing is nice.   But passing doesn't make you a woman.