QuoteTestosterone and Estrogen play a very real and significant part in how people percieve the world about them.

You do have a point about that.
It just occurred to me that I may not be playing fair with you, Brina.  I know about your condition, but you don't know about mine (everyone that's been here awhile probably does, so I apologize for my repetitiveness!)  I do know something firsthand about the effects of hormones being that I have an androgen disorder called polycystic ovary syndrome. 

You probably know that everybody has a certain amount of testosterone as well as estrogen naturally, right? Well, my ovaries produce too much testosterone and causes to ovaries to develop a cyst at the time of ovulation instead of releasing the egg. When the doctor told me this I cried for weeks because I felt that I was half a woman (not just because of the hormone thing but because of the chance I'd be infertile. I know that it was stupid thing to think)

I was put on hormonal birth control to prevent ovulation and the formation of cysts and also to give my estrogen level a boost to counteract the extra testosterone.  Without the bc, I was losing hair from my head, growing hair where I didn't want it and had raging acne and a libido that matched! That was physically. I didn't notice anything mentally, though, until I had started bc. I've tried several kinds over the years, it can be a process to find the right one.  Once I was given extra estrogen my hair stopped falling out, my acne cleared up, my weight changed (e.g. I "filled out"), within months. A few years after I noticed that I did not need to bleach my upper lip anymore and some of the unwanted hair had lightened and thinned as well.  My libido crashed and burned.

Unfortunately, I noticed mental changes when given the extra estrogen.  Mainly moodiness and bouts of depression and anxiety.  As I mentioned my libido died, but I'm not sure if that's a mental change or a physical one because they are so interconnected.  Because of this I've been swiched several times to find one that works the best with the least side effects.

There have been periods of time when I've gone completely off of it and noticed that my mood was better, or at least more stable, except that I was more antsy and aggressive. My libido returned (duh!) and of course the hair and acne began to reappear, as well as a slight loss of volume in the bust.  At which point I promptly went back on the bc.

So, now you know my story. I don't know if depression counts as a perception of the world around me, but perhaps you could tell me if you've had a similar experience with this.

To my knowledge I have never had an androgen disorder. I did experience a brief period of hair loss shortly after having had my orchiectomy. I also went thru about 2 months of NonStop nausea and vommiting that in effect totally dibillitated me. There were 5 trips made to the ER for dehydration and therefor IV's. Duriing this time I went from 165 lbs to 135 lbs. The 4th trip finally resulted in my being admitted for a week, which after various tests,x-rays and ultrasound were performed returned inconclusive. A week after discharge and the 5th ER trip finally a woman doctor decided that I was showing signs of morning sickness and prescribed a drug that works on that part of the brain dealing with nausea and basically blocks it. The short of the thing is that they worked and I only in the last month and a half have stopped taking them with no overyly noticable effects. No one has been able to explain this as yet and being as it seems to have disapated then it is slipping into history.

As to the effects of hormones, yes they have been very significant with me anyhow. The loss of Testosterone has 1) way diminished my capacity for pain, 2) some might say crashed my labido (men likely) but more like put it into a comfort zone, 3)allowed for a much more comfortable life ie way less agitation,anger etc.
Estrogen has 1) mellowed my outlook on life in a big way, 2) anxiety is somewhat increased much more so at some times then others. 3) changed the way I feel (not physically) when orgasming, 4) in general I feel like me and quite comfortable with myself.
I suppose there have been other changes brought about by the changes in both hormones but are so subtle that I probably don't pick up on them conciously. Oh Yeah my emotions are way less underwraps the what they were ever before. I can get misty eyed in a split second and on several occassions though I'd have to pull off to the side of the road and have a good cry and about what I've really never been totally sure.

When I was at the peak of my illness I did notice that after having stopped taking any of my estrogen or progesterone that after about 2 weeks I felt as though my mind/emotions were physically seperated from my body. I did not like it much but could not keep anything down not even water it was a YUKKY time. Anyhow that might have been a blessing as now I know what to expect when I have to stop the mones 2 weeks ahead of my Thailand visit, although flying halfway around the world under that condition Does Not Excite me.

Has any of this answered any of your original question?  I have now lost track of what you were asking me in the first place.

I think I better post this now as I have begun thinking about something else that is making me sad and I do not want to be sad right now.

Byee,
  Brina

QuoteModerator note: The following link contains graphic material.

what?  This is post op.

*giggles*   I remember this thread very well.  Boy!  there are few other ones out there, "what is full-time?",  "what is part-time?", "what is pre-op?" 

tink

Quote from: Tink on March 29, 2007, 11:37:10 AM
*giggles*   I remember this thread very well.  Boy!  there are few other ones out there, "what is full-time?",  "what is part-time?", "what is pre-op?" 

tink

What IS overthinking???

Hmmm... ponder...

Kate

A discussion I had with my T several weeks ago included this topic, what she said is that it boils down to two things, one did you have a surgery that has altered your genitals and second can you find a doctor that would agree with your description of post op pertaining to GID. In my case or my opinion an orchi and the inability to have an erection, having a vagina does not mean or a requirement to be female just ask any FtoM.

True, a vagina does not make anyone female, but it does make us post-SRS.  As I previously stated, I don't support any notion that an orchiectomy is any kind of sex/gender reassignment surgery.  Or perhaps it is and all those impotent men who have had orchiectomies due to medical reasons are now female/post-op TS's/???. I still have to see a doctor in this country who will validate an orchiectomy as SRS.

tink

After having open heart surgery you are post op. Money will dictate a doctors response to a request, just look at all the folks on disability.

So...I clicked on Yvonne's link (thank you, by the way)...yeah...I clicked on that link in the middle of the computer lab at school, I am three different shades of red right now! The person next prolly thinks I'm looking at hardcore pron...yes, person next to me...I'm talking about you!  >

Actually, I've never seen one of those before (neovaginas, that is, I've seen more vaginas than I'd like to admit and not in that good fun way, either!) then again, I don't think I would know the difference if I got my head stuck in it!

Do they all look that good? I think that's amazing!

Quote from: angelsgirl on March 29, 2007, 01:11:46 PM
Do they all look that good? I think that's amazing!

Of course you couldn't tell the difference.  Not even a gyno can...  are you back to your normal color?  > LOL

tink

I think I'm down to only one shade of red, now, thanks! LOL

Wow, that's really amazing, though, I've got to get Jocelyn more motivated!  >

why do some people twist their words to their own benefit?  it's truly upsetting and ignorant.  postop means exactly what it implies,  post-operative and since it's [obvious] that we're talking about mtf grs here [and not heart conditions], the term postop refers to having a [vagina] instead of male genitals.  castrations and penectomies arent considered any type of gender reassignment because they're mere modifications.  grs is a conversion (externally and internally). now, some will still argue that grs is a modification, claiming that a postop woman has no uterus or ovaries.  well neither does a woman who's had a hysterectomy, so this pov is also stupid. period.

I am not twisting my words, I am sorry you are upset, and the only thing that is ignorant is to believe that there is only one description or definition of post op, I was merely pointing out two of many real life scenario's. One post op is just that you have a surgery now you are post op, and secondly Dr. shopping is alive and well in the US so if you shop enough a Dr. will agree with you that an orhci or penectomy could also be considered GRS.

Our opinions differ mine appears to be broader than others. If anyone wanted to keep the definition in the box why ask or respond for that matter, bless your heart.

I think that we are all aware about what we are taking about in this forum when we are talking about the term "post op", we are talking about SRS/GRS and no other type of surgery.  I would have thought that it was obvious.

Lets keep the discussion on topic (and civil) as it pertains to the question asked and that is "What constitutes a Post Op".  And for clarification we are talking about post op GRS/SRS.

Steph

Quote from: Katia on March 31, 2007, 01:29:05 PM
why do some people twist their words to their own benefit?  it's truly upsetting and ignorant.  postop means exactly what it implies,  post-operative and since it's [obvious] that we're talking about mtf grs here [and not heart conditions], the term postop refers to having a [vagina] instead of male genitals.  castrations and penectomies arent considered any type of gender reassignment because they're mere modifications.  grs is a conversion (externally and internally). now, some will still argue that grs is a modification, claiming that a postop woman has no uterus or ovaries.  well neither does a woman who's had a hysterectomy, so this pov is also stupid. period.

lol, I like you.

I dont think these are silly questions. This is how the knowledge is built up. Imagination is the trigger for the development of human civilization.  And yeah, it can get annoying; I try to be patient if theyre not blatantly trying to be offensive, but still.  Post-op constitutes the creation of the neo-vagina in a male to female transsexual.

Quote from: Steph on March 31, 2007, 05:00:02 PM
I think that we are all aware about what we are taking about in this forum when we are talking about the term "post op", we are talking about SRS/GRS and no other type of surgery.  I would have thought that it was obvious.

I'd have thought the same, yet some people apparently thought we were discussing the term postop as it pertains to open-heart surgery. 

Quote from: Yvonne on March 31, 2007, 08:29:12 PM

Quote from: Katia on March 31, 2007, 01:29:05 PM
why do some people twist their words to their own benefit?  it's truly upsetting and ignorant.  postop means exactly what it implies,  post-operative and since it's [obvious] that we're talking about mtf grs here [and not heart conditions], the term postop refers to having a [vagina] instead of male genitals.  castrations and penectomies arent considered any type of gender reassignment because they're mere modifications.  grs is a conversion (externally and internally). now, some will still argue that grs is a modification, claiming that a postop woman has no uterus or ovaries.  well neither does a woman who's had a hysterectomy, so this pov is also stupid. period.

lol, I like you.

im  glad you find me amusing.  sometimes i don't know if people are just [slow] or [pretend to be].  again, the mind is a powerful thing.  you can believe yourself to be cleopatra queen of the nile, you can think that your penis is a vagina, or you can think that your castration makes you postop, yet the truth is that those are [mere delusions].

Quote from: Katia on April 02, 2007, 02:28:00 AM
...
im  glad you find me amusing.  sometimes i don't know if people are just [slow] or [pretend to be].  again, the mind is a powerful thing.  you can believe yourself to be cleopatra queen of the nile, you can think that your penis is a vagina, or you can think that your castration makes you postop, yet the truth is that those are [mere delusions].

Truth? Who's truth? I notice all the post ops here are making dogmatic statements of opinion as if it were a fact. Post-op means after operation. When a person has completed all the operations they intend to have, they are post-op. Now you can argue all day long about whether or not anyone is a woman or not.

And saying that it's irrellevant that those with neo-vagina's don't have wombs or overies, because women get hysterectomies, does not make it a less valid arguement, just because you think so. Guess what, some women have thier clitoris's cut off and thier vagina sewn shut. About 100,000,000 at last count. Under your standards, one need not have a vagina or clitoris, since millions of women don't.

Come down off that high horse. Those of you who are lucky enough to possess neo-vaginas are no more women than any other transsexual. It totally cracks me up. Let's see some literature on this? How about a few peer reviewed studies that support this point of view.

You know, this place is getting pretty snobish. It seems that there is only room for those who have neo-vaginas. If anyone does not fit into a certain stereotype they are labled "tranvestites" by the neo-vagina group. It's sad, as soon as the ability to smite someone vanishes, peoples true colors come out.

It really does not feel friendly here anymore. It feels like a club, where I am not in with the popular crowd.

Love always,
Elizabeth

I am glad to see that I am not the only one with these opinions

Although I am not as elegant in explaining myself as others might be. Its the punker chick in me.

It kinda reminds me of my BF corporate world if your not in line with the popular ways then you are a rebel and outcast and shouldn't have any opinion, [lets keep it on track] what is the track? if the the only answer is "with a vagina" then why ask the question?

Quote from: Elizabeth on April 02, 2007, 03:50:29 AM
It seems that there is only room for those who have neo-vaginas. If anyone does not fit into a certain stereotype they are labled "tranvestites" by the neo-vagina group.

I'm post-op by the commonly-held notion of what that means... and I don't personally hold with that view. I think people should transition to the point where they feel comfortable and where it's pragmatic for them.

However, if people want to appropriate the language and terms of certain procedures and repurpose them to fit their own reality, then, to me, it's a slippery form of relativism that is subjective at heart and I think it's important to bear that in mind.

Elizabeth, you've always been a woman to me. I was living as a woman 24/7 many years before surgery. That didn't make me less of an individual and it would be the sheerest of hypocrisy to deny that same dignity to others.