Quote from: lovleylisa on January 19, 2012, 01:11:30 PM
I feel relaxed and  calmer, I enjoy it, sometimes it's really enjoyable. I don't just want to try and look like a girl I want to feel like a girl and I can feel a little difference.

its your body and your risks

I have to disagree with the statement that these meds "are a diagnostic tool". People can have allergic and/or bad reactions to them, but that doesn't mean they aren't women. A LOT of GG's can't tolerate estridiol due to head aches etc, what kinda diagnosis is that? I got extremely anxious and developed insomnia when I tried to add progesterone, so do a lot of other women. It's at the top of the list of side effects. I can't tollerate estridiol but estriol is no problem, does that mean I want to get preggers?

I would say if someone starts on an AA and when their sex drive drops their desire to be a woman wanes, THAT is a diagnosis that HRT is probably not a good idea for them. IMHO when someone first inquires about HRT, they should immediately start them on something like spiro and then during later therapy the results of that would tell the therapist a lot.  I honestly think most of the feeling calmer is from the AA lowering T levels, not the E. Many people start them together so assume it's the E. To the OP, I'm pretty sure what you are feeling is a placebo effect but I could be wrong. As another poster said, you'd probably be better off with an AA as throwing e into your body alone is probably doing nothing or maybe even have the opposite effect you imagine it would.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts I do appreciate them, I stopped taking them for about two weeks now and I miss the way I felt. It was a big change but I noticed it. I liked it I did notice my skin feeling softer, I felt softer in many different ways not just my skin. The world seemed just a little quitter when I was taking hormones. I think I want to try them again.

Things maybe different in America, but here in GB as far as I understand you need to be three months into your real-life test before they will even consider prescribing hormones.   I am too tall to ever pass so I have to go down the unprescribed oestrogen route.

Quote from: Beverley on January 29, 2012, 03:21:47 PM
OK - I am an expert on low dose oestrogen. Actually I am an expert on on herbal phytoestrogens which, because they are a lot weaker than estradiol etc, act like a low dose oestrogen.

How do  I know about them? Because I took them for SIX MONTHS. Got that? 6 MONTHS. Not years - MONTHS.

What happened?

I grew boobs. That is what happened. I had significant breast development that my GP diagnosed as Tanner stage 3. In short I developed permanent breast tissue. That is what low dose oestrogens will do to you.

Beverley

I read recently that Premarin is horse oestrogen and if you take Premarin you get a lot of junk in your body that the body doesn't know what to do with.   With phyto-oestrogen your are getting plant junk.

Quote from: Happy Girl! on January 29, 2012, 05:33:12 PM
Things maybe different in America, but here in GB as far as I understand you need to be three months into your real-life test before they will even consider prescribing hormones.   I am too tall to ever pass so I have to go down the unprescribed oestrogen route.

What a load of crap... None of the Brit girls I've spoken to have had to do any RLE before hormones..

Quote from: kelly_aus on January 29, 2012, 05:59:36 PM
What a load of crap... None of the Brit girls I've spoken to have had to do any RLE before hormones..

There are many places in the UK that still requires you to go through RLE before getting HRT. I know of five girls who had to do RLE first in the UK.

While there are therapists in the UK will let you start HRT before RLE....others still require RLE first.

So, the "load of crap" is kind of harsh under the circumstances.

Quote from: Happy Girl! on January 29, 2012, 05:37:01 PM
I read recently that Premarin is horse oestrogen and if you take Premarin you get a lot of junk in your body that the body doesn't know what to do with.   With phyto-oestrogen your are getting plant junk.

PREgnant MARe uRINe.

Yeah, I wont touch the stuff.

Quote from: Annah on January 29, 2012, 10:57:45 PM
PREgnant MARe uRINe.

Yeah, I wont touch the stuff.

I have a cis friend that had everything removed and she's on premarin, she gets hot flashes all the time

has she talked to her doctor about getting something a little bit more natural? There's just so many more effective and safer estrogen out there as medications has improved.

No clue. I should talk to her about it. Maybe give her a few of my pills and see if they make a difference. I did jokingly offer but she just laughed at me.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on January 30, 2012, 01:25:38 AM
Maybe give her a few of my pills and see if they make a difference.

I def advise against that!

One way or another, I think I'm switching to injections in a couple weeks and I'm gonna have about 50 pills left over. She gets everything thru the womens clinic and IDT she can go to the doctor to get a resub due to finances.

Does anyone actually know how many people have died as a result of taking cross sex hormones? Are some people just jumping on the bandwagon when they pipe up "self medding will kill you" Does anyone know for sure that someone has died directly as a result of what could be considered a normal dose, prescription or otherwise.
Is there an element of jealousy from those folks going the legit route, jumping through hoops and getting prescriptions?   
Have any of the people under a doctor died? 
If you genuinely know the answer to these questions then I think you have some of the information that you'd need, to have a valid opinion. If you don't then maybe get down of that wagon.
As someone said it might be a choice between going mad with GD whilst a doctor,(not necessarily an endo or a G specialist) makes a decision about someones suitability or not.
How many people die every year climbing Everest, riding the Isle of man TT, playing rugby, skydiving, scuba, cycling, Fkin roller skating..... Is there anyone telling them they shouldn't do it?
In life Everything we do has risk. I used to risk my life every day just going to work riding a motor cycle through london, it was my choice. I absolutely resent being treated like a small child, incapable of making an informed choice, "GET OFF MY TRAIN!!!!"
Rather than telling people they're going to drop down dead how about being a bit more realistic and identifying the realities of self medding and what "can" happen if it goes wrong. It turns out it's the same things that can happen under a doctors care. Does anyone have actual numbers of deaths or strokes or any other negative effects for both monitored or independent hormone use?
I think Susan's is right not to allow discussion on hormones, dosage, type, etc because there are far too many "experts" ready to throw in their opinions. However I do think that genuine information from qualified experts should be available and it is if you're lucky enough to find it or smart enough to search for it. As with Any drugs taking too much, mixing, the wrong type, etc, or just being really unlucky! Any and all of these can potentially kill you. How many people die each year from over the counter medication, even asprin, look it up. Anyone on Susan's telling people of that reality? It doesn't matter what kills you, you'll always end up equally just as dead....

Quote from: smooth on January 30, 2012, 04:19:30 AM
Does anyone actually know how many people have died as a result of taking cross sex hormones? Are some people just jumping on the bandwagon when they pipe up "self medding will kill you" Does anyone know for sure that someone has died directly as a result of what could be considered a normal dose, prescription or otherwise.

I know personally of two girls in Philly and one girl in Washington state. One of the girls in Philly is dead from a Liver damage and the other girl from Washington state is dead from a stroke.

The other girl from Philly survived her stroke but now uses a electric scooter, slurs her speech, and is still mostly paralyzed on her right side.

These were girls I had been in contact with prior. All three of them had these complications as a result of DIY hormones and this was confirmed by their autopsy and/or bloodwork when they were admitted.

The girl who died from Liver damage had been leaking enzymes into her bloodstream as a result of taking a type of estrogen that was not good for her. Visits to an endo could have prevented that.

The other girl who died of a stroke died because her blood had thickened from her DIY HRT regiment.

These were girls I knew personally...and not anyone I found on the internet. These were also girls who had these tragic results one year apart in the two years I had been transitioning so it didn't happen years apart either.

So, no. It's not a bandwagon.

Quote from: lovleylisa on January 29, 2012, 02:45:24 PM
Thanks everyone for your thoughts I do appreciate them, I stopped taking them for about two weeks now and I miss the way I felt. It was a big change but I noticed it. I liked it I did notice my skin feeling softer, I felt softer in many different ways not just my skin. The world seemed just a little quitter when I was taking hormones. I think I want to try them again.

Why did you stop taking them if they made you feel so much better?
I really hope you didn't stop just because someone told you to.

Quote from: smooth on January 30, 2012, 04:19:30 AM
Does anyone know for sure that someone has died directly as a result of what could be considered a normal dose, prescription or otherwise.

Yes

Quote from: smooth on January 30, 2012, 04:19:30 AM
Is there an element of jealousy from those folks going the legit route, jumping through hoops and getting prescriptions?

No
 

Quote from: smooth on January 30, 2012, 04:19:30 AM
Have any of the people under a doctor died?

Yes
 

Quote from: smooth on January 30, 2012, 04:19:30 AM
If you genuinely know the answer to these questions then I think you have some of the information that you'd need, to have a valid opinion.

Thank you

Quote from: smooth on January 30, 2012, 04:19:30 AM
Rather than telling people they're going to drop down dead how about being a bit more realistic and identifying the realities of self medding and what "can" happen if it goes wrong.

In my experience, I find the majority of self medicators AREN'T interested in, and don't WANT to listen.

Quote from: smooth on January 30, 2012, 04:19:30 AM
Does anyone have actual numbers of deaths or strokes or any other negative effects for both monitored or independent hormone use?

I'm personally not into statistics. I'd prefer to stop what I know to be true. Statistics don't help in any way, shape or form, in piecing back together the shattered remains of those left behind. That's the sad reality of self medication. Forget the bandwagons. forget the statistics.

Quote from: smooth on January 30, 2012, 04:19:30 AM
However I do think that genuine information from qualified experts should be available and it is if you're lucky enough to find it or smart enough to search for it.

Yes. .....  They are called GP's (General Practitioners) they are called Therapists, they are called Psychiatrists, they are called Endocrinologists. They can be found in your phone book or through a recognised Gender Centre.

Quote from: smooth on January 30, 2012, 04:19:30 AM
How many people die each year from over the counter medication, even aspirin. Anyone on Susan's telling people of that reality?

I don't know how many people die from and over dose of aspirin; and Susan's isn't a medical support site for the side effects of aspirin.

Quote from: smooth on January 30, 2012, 04:19:30 AM
It doesn't matter what kills you, you'll always end up equally just as dead....

Correct. ...  It's just trying to piece back the shattered remains of those that are left, tends to blunt-en my day and the team I work with. Takes the gloss off it somewhat. Particularly when it could have been avoided. The repair work sometimes takes years. Sometimes it just never happens. The pain and grief is too much for some and just takes them to an early grave.

And this is possibly part of the reason Susan has this policy in place.

Be safe, well and happy
Catherine

Catherine
I don't know the extent of your experience and I'd be surprised to find you'd spoken to more than a small % of self medders, saying the majority aren't interested is a little blinkered and mis-leading. That'd be like assuming that everyone who's transgendered is a member here at Susan's. Some people aren't good at getting a message across, no one likes to be told "dont!" maybe you rubbed them up the wrong way with your approach to enlightening them.
I'm not a fan of statistics either and I'm not aware of any specifically relating to just how many unfortunate people have died as a result of self medding. Without actual numbers and even certain important details regarding exact circumstances of each case I'd say that the "reality of self medication" isn't actually known.
Not everyone can afford GP's, therapists or endos, they might be off the beaten track and simply don't have access to such services. As for gender centres I haven't found these to exactly plentiful either. Not everyone would be considered "suitable" for receiving a prescrition, that's not to say it wouldn't be right for them.

Annah
It's terrible that these girls died as a result of self medding. I wonder though had they had information freely available would they still be alive today. Desperate people have a tendency to do desperate things and take what could be considered silly risks. These risks could be better managed if more genuine information was freely available.

Beverley
I really hope dangerous sports are never banned. They're not everyone's cup of tea but some people need that adrenalin fix to make life worth living. Dangerous sports today, what next, as it is we're going health and safety mad. Before you know it we''ll be so wrapped up in cotton wool that you won't be able to do anything.

Quote from: smooth on January 30, 2012, 03:29:24 PM

Annah
It's terrible that these girls died as a result of self medding. I wonder though had they had information freely available would they still be alive today. Desperate people have a tendency to do desperate things and take what could be considered silly risks. These risks could be better managed if more genuine information was freely available.

Um the information was freely available when they died. These girls died in 2009 and 2011....not 1993.

They had all the information every other DIY has. Trust me, I knew them. They knew all kinds of estrogen, dosages, effectiveness, etc.

You stated that we are against DIY because we jumped on a bandwagon because it was there....and that we were somehow jealous that DIY are doing it DIY and we're not.

On the contrary, I am not jealous at all. I would rather be alive than dead. Also, I am only spending about 4 bucks a month on HRT versus some DIY who spend 40 to 50 a month. Plus, I have bloodwork twice a year to make sure my liver and other organs are functioning properly from the HRT....as well a a mammogram.

Good lord, why would I be jealous of DIY?