I know that I can't be passing all the time.  I can easily tell that there are times I do pass (i.e guys who'll wolf whistle anything in a skirt), but how do I tell in those general day to day interactions, such as shopping, whether or not I am passing?  I live in a liberal area and people are very politically correct so they wont say anything if they do clock me.

If you don't pass, people will often show it on their faces (they don't have to say a thing).

If you are being accepted as a female then why does it matter if they know you are trans.

Besides your profile picture is fairly cute.

You'll find most people are simply too absorbed something else to really care most of the time.

Believe in yourself and you will be fine.

QuoteIf you don't pass, people will often show it on their faces (they don't have to say a thing).

^ Pretty much this, but it's best not to over analyse everything. If someone really stands out, well, it's pretty easy to tell by people's reactions. Look of horror, amusement, disdain/disgust etc.  If they don't pass only on closer inspection, it will be a more subtle, because they're not sure.

From your pic I don't think you will have a problem. 

Quote from: Jeneva on February 04, 2012, 07:29:33 PM
If you are being accepted as a female then why does it matter if they know you are trans.

Besides your profile picture is fairly cute.

You'll find most people are simply too absorbed something else to really care most of the time.

Believe in yourself and you will be fine.

I was going to write something similar.. but I'll just give this a +1..

Quote from: atheuona on February 04, 2012, 07:00:07 PM
I know that I can't be passing all the time.  I can easily tell that there are times I do pass (i.e guys who'll wolf whistle anything in a skirt), but how do I tell in those general day to day interactions, such as shopping, whether or not I am passing?  I live in a liberal area and people are very politically correct so they wont say anything if they do clock me.

One big clue is how do women walking past react? Do they look away or straight ahead? Or do they make what I call soft eye contact, smile and give a quiet "hi"? Women don't do that with men or people they perceive to be men. Usually women don't general strike up a conversation with guys or anyone they don't feel comfortable with. If women compliment you on something you're wearing, that's likely another good clue. I don't think even in a liberal area would many women compliment a random transwoman.

For guys the classic hold the door for you is a good clue. Very few guys would hold the door for someone they perceive as a guy

But as someone else said, as long as I'm treated as a woman, I don't care if I'm clocked as trans. Because I am both

That was a very good post, Stephe. Now that I think about it, it's all true. I remember the first time a man opened the door for me because I passed as a woman. I felt both totally weird and totally joyous.

Lyric ~

Quote from: Stephe on February 04, 2012, 09:30:32 PM
If women compliment you on something you're wearing, that's likely another good clue. I don't think even in a liberal area would many women compliment a random transwoman.

That depends. I would say that many women actually very much would and do, if they are liberal.
In fact, in my experience, women are even more likely to say something like; "Oh how pretty aren't you" to a total stranger on a club that they interpret as a biological male that wishes to be interpretated as female(either transsexual or Drag), while they(the Cis-females) are less likely to do so as frequently to another Cis-female.

If, for instance, a Drag Queen goes out on Club, she will recieve lots of complimants from Cis-females, even more so than the Cis-females gives to each other.

The above have happened to me a couple of times; Once when meeting a woman I had recently "told", and the other time out on a club in chick-mode, and I found it as annoying in both cases as it just sounded so fake(Even if i did ofcourse not show so but just smiled).
When I was clubing the most(In chick-mode), I much more appreciated males comments and reactions, even if it was something like a howling or a whistle or a; "Wow you are hot" or just a flirty eye, or the like, as then I atleast knew that they really meant it, while, on the other hand, if someone say something like; "Oh look at you!" when you wear a random fluffy coat or tights and a blouse, it comes across more as patronizing, as they are hardly saying the same to a cis-female in random chick-clothings.


I have ofcourse also recieved genuine compliments from women. Once, just the last year, I recieved a compliment that was very obviously truly genuine and coming from the heart, when I was entering the shopping center and a woman suddenly stopped right in front of my tracks and bursted out loudly; "How beautiful you were!!8D ".
I was taken totally by surprise as I was otherwhere in my thoughts and did initially not know what to say at all, so she repeated it, the Penny finally dropped and I, ofcourse, thanked her with a big smile.

I have no idea what she interpretated my as, though.

QuoteFor guys the classic hold the door for you is a good clue. Very few guys would hold the door for someone they perceive as a guy

I don't know if I can fully agree. I have seen lots of guys holding up doors for each other.
It is simply custom to do so for the one coming behind you.

After you have driven yourself crazy trying to figure out if you pass or not. Or if people are just being kind. Or what ever. You figure out to just live your life.

You have the right to be here. Try to live more and worry less about passing. In the end you will pass better.

Quote from: Bishounen on February 05, 2012, 02:45:12 PM

That depends. I would say that many women actually very much would and do, if they are liberal.
In fact, in my experience, women are even more likely to say something like; "Oh how pretty aren't you" to a total stranger on a club that they interpret as a biological male that wishes to be interpretated as female(either transsexual or Drag), while they(the Cis-females) are less likely to do so as frequently to another Cis-female.

If, for instance, a Drag Queen goes out on Club, she will recieve lots of complimants from Cis-females, even more so than the Cis-females gives to each other.

The above have happened to me a couple of times; Once when meeting a woman I had recently "told", and the other time out on a club in chick-mode, and I found it as annoying in both cases as it just sounded so fake(Even if i did ofcourse not show so but just smiled).
When I was clubing the most(In chick-mode), I much more appreciated males comments and reactions, even if it was something like a howling or a whistle or a; "Wow you are hot" or just a flirty eye, or the like, as then I atleast knew that they really meant it, while, on the other hand, if someone say something like; "Oh look at you!" when you wear a random fluffy coat or tights and a blouse, it comes across more as patronizing, as they are hardly saying the same to a cis-female in random chick-clothings.


I have ofcourse also recieved genuine compliments from women. Once, just the last year, I recieved a compliment that was very obviously truly genuine and coming from the heart, when I was entering the shopping center and a woman suddenly stopped right in front of my tracks and bursted out loudly; "How beautiful you were!!8D ".
I was taken totally by surprise as I was otherwhere in my thoughts and did initially not know what to say at all, so she repeated it, the Penny finally dropped and I, ofcourse, thanked her with a big smile.

I have no idea what she interpretated my as, though.

Remember that ciswomen also give out random compliments to other cis women which aren't necessarily genuine - ex. she couldn't really die for those shoes, she's just breaking the ice. So, yeah ciswomen trade compliments on random clothing a lot. It's a good conversation starter "Oh, nice <insert random clothing article/accessory>, where did you get it?" even if she's not interested in the answer. If you did notice women complimenting you more than usual, they could just be trying to encourage you.

Quote from: atheuona on February 04, 2012, 07:00:07 PM
I know that I can't be passing all the time.  I can easily tell that there are times I do pass (i.e guys who'll wolf whistle anything in a skirt), but how do I tell in those general day to day interactions, such as shopping, whether or not I am passing?  I live in a liberal area and people are very politically correct so they wont say anything if they do clock me.

I think you pass well in your pic and look very pretty to me!

Quote from: Bishounen on February 05, 2012, 02:45:12 PM

That depends. I would say that many women actually very much would and do, if they are liberal.
In fact, in my experience, women are even more likely to say something like; "Oh how pretty aren't you" to a total stranger on a club that they interpret as a biological male that wishes to be interpretated as female(either transsexual or Drag), while they(the Cis-females) are less likely to do so as frequently to another Cis-female.

I'm not talking about a "Oh you look great/pretty" type stuff. And not talking about in clubs either. Like on an elevator a woman says "I love your bracelet, where did you get it?" type of thing.

On the door holding, not talking about when you are following them, nudging it open for you to go through. I'm talking about maybe 20 feet ahead of you, they see you, they open the door and stand beside it holding it for you to go ahead of them. Guys do NOT let other guys go ahead of them, that would be a submissive to another guy move, a -you are more important than me- move.

Quote from: atheuona on February 04, 2012, 07:00:07 PM
I know that I can't be passing all the time.  I can easily tell that there are times I do pass (i.e guys who'll wolf whistle anything in a skirt), but how do I tell in those general day to day interactions, such as shopping, whether or not I am passing?  I live in a liberal area and people are very politically correct so they wont say anything if they do clock me.

You can't possibly be passing unless you have posted your pictures in the Official Do I Pass Thread and subjected yourself to the critiques of others. 

This again, is why the androgynous should not be allowed to post in this forum!

I gauge how well I am passing by the reactions of the children who see me. 
Kids wear their feelings on their sleeves, gawk, giggle or ask their parents if something doesn't pass the look right test. You don't have to wonder if they think you look like a guy in a dress; being able to tell the "Mama" from the "Not the Mama" is a basic instinct their lives depend on. Cisgender teenage girls are the absolute harshest critics. At a point in their life where they are discovering their own womanhood, I can literally feel them dissecting me from my shoes to my mascara.

The most validating thing for me is when a toddler comes up to me. It's sort of an understood role of women that any port in a storm will do to wipe a tear or share a smile for them. Kids just don't do that to guys and on the outside chance they do, mama will come running to get her cub. But the icing on the cake is when she just looks over and smiles. Ain't a woman in the world that would let me touch her child out of political correctness.

Quote from: Beverley on February 06, 2012, 06:43:00 AMI had a woman hand me her infant to hold whilst she repacked her car to get the groceries in. I was just walking through the car park having bought some stuff for myself.

You pass, Beverley

Love,
Virginia

Quote from: Stephe on February 06, 2012, 12:44:38 AM
On the door holding, not talking about when you are following them, nudging it open for you to go through. I'm talking about maybe 20 feet ahead of you, they see you, they open the door and stand beside it holding it for you to go ahead of them. Guys do NOT let other guys go ahead of them, that would be a submissive to another guy move, a -you are more important than me- move.

I always get guys holding doors open for me. When I was still living as male I also used to get guys holding doors open for me long before I started transition and guys offering to carry parcels for me.  That was a good boost for me before starting transition wearing jeans and a guys denim jacket. Some times you can pass easily in casual situations.  But there are much harder tests on the way....

The clothing compliment is a great rule of thumb.  I was a bit wary of my first day back at school last fall after going full-time, but the girl sitting next to me in my first class complimented me on my shoes and that really put me at ease.

Another thing to watch for is the way that men treat you.  Are they being oddly polite, opening doors for you, etc?  Then you're probably passing just fine.

Quote from: Virginia on February 06, 2012, 06:37:22 AM

being able to tell the "Mama" from the "Not the Mama" is a basic instinct

Reminds me of dialogue from an old, quirky television show called "Dinosaurs."

Not the mama!

Most people simply aren't that observant. At my work, our customers frequently get me and this other guy mixed up.

He's black, I'm white. 

I dunno about some most people...if life was a snake, it'd bite people in the ass...oh wait, it does.

LOL