So I was reading the topic "All of you hate your female genitalia?" and I'm really confused now. Keep in mind reading this, I'm young so my brain hasn't developed fully yet so... Cut me some slack if I come across badly.

I thought being FTM (Female-TO-MALE) meant transitioning from female to male. I'm right so far, right? Yes. But yet I keep hearing about guys who don't want bottom surgery (I know the options aren't the best but they surely must be better than what you have now, if you're pre-op). Some don't even want Testosterone, I've even heard of people who doesn't want to do anything, not even TOP SURGERY! So basically they just want to be called HE and that's really it. What's the point of that? I don't get at all. Because I could care less about what people call me (I'm FTM btw). What I do care about though is fixing this horrible situation I'm in. And I don't see how you can forget that your body is wrong. And I just can't seem to find any other guy (or girl even) that feels this the way I do. Like it is so INTENSE and it's 24/7, I can barely function! Showering and that time of the month is just unbearable, I go into a deep depression EVERY SINGLE TIME either happens. The only way I could imagine it happening would like this, "oh right, I'd forgotten, my life is a living hell." Which is impossible, I'd have a bigger chance of forgetting I'm on fire.

So yeah, and I'll add a bonus question, is there anybody that actually has the same intense dysphoria? or knows anywhere I could find some people that do? it just feels like the cliche, "nobody understands me" or at least not how I feel.

I think it may just come down to how an individual's gender dysphoria shows itself.  Granted, I never understood the FTM's who didn't even want to go on T, but who am I to judge?  If it feels right to them, and it makes them feel like their true self, then more power to them.  On the side note, I don't believe any female can "truly" transition to male.  For that to be true, we would have to change our DNA.  However, one can transition into MAN, which is a much broader and much more difficult word to define.  After all, I know plenty of males who are NOT men.  So with this thought process, it is completely possible to transition to a MAN without hormones or operations.  Now - the public absolutely does not approve of this idea, and it would be much harder to "pass", but to each his own.

I personally don't care about bottom surgery.  It's not that I like what I got, but (as long as it doesn't have a monthly) it doesn't drive me up a wall either.  If I had the choice and a magic wand, then hell yea, I'm gonna get the right nether regions, but the surgeries are just not that worth it to me.  My most important goals were to have the body type of a male and my breasts removed.  I feel mostly relieved.  The only time I feel stressed about it is when it comes to relationships.  Not having a penis has caused real upset in my love life (and has attracted some very unwanted ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s).  Perhaps not being a very sexual person makes me less apt to care about my sexual organs.  I dunno.  That's just me.

There are plenty of people out there with the same intense dysphoria.  And just because some FTMs don't want as many procedures as another, it doesn't mean their dysphoria is any less intense.  We all know how it feels to be the odd one out.  So don't worry...there are plenty who understand.

I'm going to be brave and throw my two cents out though, mind you, this is probably just going to be a gaggle of my own personal opinions.

Anyway, ahem.

About your take on FtM. That's not how I interpret it. When I think of FtM, or MtF, I don't think of the transitioning aspect, I actually think about the identifying aspect. You don't have to have surgery and hormones in order to identify as the opposite gender (Or as a combination of the two, for that matter) I know some people who think of 'Transsexual' as being 'Born into the wrong body,' That's how I usually explain it when someone asks me about it, and that sentence says nothing about me 'fixing' my predicament of not belonging in my body.

Transition is a very personal thing.

A lot of FtM's don't get bottom surgery not only because the results suck, but because of the cost. That being said, I will probably never get bottom surgery. As much as I'd love to have a dick, the truth of the matter is that I hate where the results are now, and would rather have the genitalia that I have now as opposed to wasting thousands of dollars on a surgery that I might not be happy with. For me, stuffing my pants is enough to curb my dysphoria. Besides, I see my own junk as...man-junk, and that's all that matters.

As far as top surgery goes. Well, I'm sure that money is an issue for some people, and maybe some people are terrified of getting the surgery. Any surgery is risky, and expensive. I think that these are enough of a good reason to pull some FtMs away from getting surgery. Besides, some people are perfectly happy to bind, like me. Yes, I want to lop my chest off, but I understand that It's going to have to wait for a very long time, and a binder makes me happy enough for now.

Hormones are also very personal, and not everyone likes the idea of taking them. I'm sure that I'm not the only trans guy without insurance, so again, money is likely an issue. Unfortunately for myself, I very well may have to stop taking testosterone for a few months because of my lack of money. But I'm okay with that, because I've gotten pretty far with it and the changes are noticeable. I'd really prefer to not go off it, but if I have to, there's nothing I can do.

In short, FtMs come in all varying degrees. It's a spectrum within a spectrum. I think that the form of transition depends on the amount of dysphoria that one is going through. Just look at yourself Darknavy. You seem to have severe dysphoria and believe that it's necessary to go through every single step. But with me on the other hand, my dysphoria isn't quite that bad and I'm okay with taking or leaving some of those steps.

One more thing, when it comes to dysphoria, it doesn't bother me like it does you...anymore. But I know how you feel, before I came to terms with things that I could and couldn't do in transition, I had days where I struggled to get out of bed. If you ever need someone to talk to, I don't mind holding out an ear.

Quote from: darknavy on February 28, 2012, 08:39:15 AM
So I was reading the topic "All of you hate your female genitalia?" and I'm really confused now. Keep in mind reading this, I'm young so my brain hasn't developed fully yet so... Cut me some slack if I come across badly.

I thought being FTM (Female-TO-MALE) meant transitioning from female to male. I'm right so far, right? Yes. But yet I keep hearing about guys who don't want bottom surgery (I know the options aren't the best but they surely must be better than what you have now, if you're pre-op). Some don't even want Testosterone, I've even heard of people who doesn't want to do anything, not even TOP SURGERY! So basically they just want to be called HE and that's really it. What's the point of that? I don't get at all. Because I could care less about what people call me (I'm FTM btw). What I do care about though is fixing this horrible situation I'm in. And I don't see how you can forget that your body is wrong. And I just can't seem to find any other guy (or girl even) that feels this the way I do. Like it is so INTENSE and it's 24/7, I can barely function! Showering and that time of the month is just unbearable, I go into a deep depression EVERY SINGLE TIME either happens. The only way I could imagine it happening would like this, "oh right, I'd forgotten, my life is a living hell." Which is impossible, I'd have a bigger chance of forgetting I'm on fire.

So yeah, and I'll add a bonus question, is there anybody that actually has the same intense dysphoria? or knows anywhere I could find some people that do? it just feels like the cliche, "nobody understands me" or at least not how I feel.

its because. "being transexual is when ones sex/asigned gender as birth dosen't match ones gender identety" <--- basic
which mean you can be the the most femenine biological girl, who dress up in women clothes and dont have surgery or homones or anything, so on so on AS LONG you identify as a man.

its hard to explain this but I will try.

theres many people on the earth in all kinds of situations and way of looking at it being transexual.
You cant really change on how you where born, but you can change your way of living as well as your clothes, your name, your homones, or surgery.

its all a choice you make, not everyone is equal to make it as people are in diffrent situations,
and it dosent mean the choises who are made means same everywhere.
ex theres a place in indonesia (I think it there) where theres people called fafafini, where men choose to live as women, and they get fully accepted as that, without homones or surgery.
another country like iran you can also be transexual, however your only accepted to be that if you get surgery.
(please correct me if the names of the countrys I just mention, are wrong, I do tend to mix them up alittle)

I always think people should only change what is nessesarry, but what people find important is diffrent from person to person and place to place.

some people can only feel they are fully male or female is they do all the surgery and threatment to be male/female, and some dont feel they need them cause they feel they are men/woman no matter the fact of there body, or so.
---
I have homones, and top surgery but I dont want to do bottom surgery.
the reason is many
1 I do enjoy my genetalia for sex, and I dont think the doctors could make a penis I would be satified with,
I would like to have a penis and get totally jelous when I see a guys penis,but im just simply not satified with the result or think I will be, and because of that im not willing to sacrifice so much money, or trouble for just having a bigger one. and it dosent make me feel less man, It just make me feel diffrent than cis-gender men as I already am. as I said before in a earlyer theat I dont hate my female part, I just hate how it sign me as female in some ignorant peoples eyes. I know I can still live as a man with it, around the right people, but the world is cruel so theres always places where it will put me into a categori of something.
--
I hope it make sort of sense.
-----
"is there anybody that actually has the same intense dysphoria? or knows anywhere I could find some people that do? it just feels like the cliche, "nobody understands me" or at least not how I feel."

yeah, Its a very common felling for transgenders, I got that as well.
---
I add a question, you say your young, how old are you?

For myself, my own situation, and what I know, I personally do not want surgery.

Now, a lot of people have asked me "have you had top surgery?" or I've had people say things like "oh, you'll totally pass all the time once you get top surgery" and frankly, I don't weigh top surgery as important. I pretty much came to this decision between weighing the pros and the cons. Being that I have a large chest, I think it's likely that I'll have some level of sensation loss. I don't have money and insurance won't cover it. To me, $7,000-$10,000 is almost a year's worth of pay when I did have a job for a full year. I'm terrified of having surgery. I've put off having my wisdom teeth pulled because I'm so scared. I believe that with my body type I'll have some sort of dog earing and will need a revision which will cost more money. I don't like the idea of not being able to lift things, or being unable to do basic things for myself.

With all those things that I consider as being bad, and likely I don't think it's worth it...because I don't feel my "maximum potential happiness" is equal or greater than all the potential downsides. Plus, I dislike my large hips more than my chest.

From my own viewpoint, I am NOT FtM. I am NOT female. I have parts that are considered female by most people, and while I hate them, they will NEVER make me female. I am(and in a sense, always have been), male from the inside.

I want hormones and top surgery, and most definitely a hysterectomy. But bottom surgery is something I'm still thinking on. Having something closer to a cisgender male's penis may be technically "better" than what I have now, but it's not going to make me any more of a man than I already am. The procedures are risky, expensive, and could make my dysphoria worse than it already is should anything go wrong.

I hate my body. I hate it so much. But it's still my body, the only one I will ever have, and I need to do what I feel is best for it. Top surgery can go wrong, too, but the point of that is to be FLAT for me. I'm not saying bottom surgery is bad or always doomed to failure(I've seen some WONDERFUL results that I could be happy with if mine ever turned out that way), but right now I am not comfortable with compromising my health for something like that just yet.

Packing doesn't rid me of the dysphoria all the time, but I find it to be a less-risky way to feel better about the way my body is at present.

Despite my hate for my body, I have to keep going and do what I can to bring myself closer to feeling more at home in it. This doesn't make me any less of a man, it just means I'm doing what I can to survive and persevere in what is an incredibly tough situation to be in. My dysphoria is so intense, it hurts, but I have to keep going. If I lay around and feel sorry for myself, things will NEVER get done. I just made $1,300 towards top surgery and hormones by selling things I no longer needed. I had to push aside my social anxiety and managed to get a job where I can make money to support myself and my transition. I have to be productive, or all these things I need will never ever see the light of day. I'm scared, I'm depressed and angry and all that ->-bleeped-<-, but I have to carry on because no one else but me can make this a reality.

And regarding folks who don't want surgery or hormones -

Not all people feel the same about their bodies, really. Some guys just want to be called he, as well as be SEEN as male. Some don't feel surgery and hormones are necessary to bring them happiness or contentment in their bodies. They are still men in my eyes and deserve respect and support, too. Transition is not a one size fits all deal.

I don't understand either. Any cisgendered man's worst nightmare is losing his dick. It's not something they'd be OK with or able to say "out of sight, out of mind" about. But somehow the people on here don't care, and that is astounding to me.

I, too, experience the same level of dysphoria. Can't go more than 5 minutes without thinking about it unless I'm sleeping, high or drunk. When I was pre-T I couldn't function at all -- could barely even get out of bed. My entire life revolves around trying to cope with this

Quote from: poptart on February 28, 2012, 12:36:42 PM
I don't understand either. Any cisgendered man's worst nightmare is losing his dick. It's not something they'd be OK with or able to say "out of sight, out of mind" about. But somehow the people on here don't care, and that is astounding to me.

I, too, experience the same level of dysphoria. Can't go more than 5 minutes without thinking about it unless I'm sleeping, high or drunk. When I was pre-T I couldn't function at all -- could barely even get out of bed. My entire life revolves around trying to cope with this

But not everyone has the same level of dysphoria. I personally am not bottom dysphoric at all. Granted, I'm excited about dick growth on T, but that's all I want. The only surgery I want is top because I don't like or need my chest.

I hate threads like these because this is what perpetuates the "not trans enough" BS floating around in the trans community. We all feel differently about our bodies and it doesn't make anyone less trans or anything. I don't identify as a cis male or "just a guy". I'm a transmale and embrace my trans experience because I did live as a female for 25 years. That's my personal experience and I respect everyone else's that are different from mine. We all should.....

My dysphoria is mostly socially triggered than triggered by my body alone. If I'm at home, in my room Aline I feel usually 100% fine with ny body.

Quote from: poptart on February 28, 2012, 12:36:42 PM
I don't understand either. Any cisgendered man's worst nightmare is losing his dick. It's not something they'd be OK with or able to say "out of sight, out of mind" about. But somehow the people on here don't care, and that is astounding to me.

I, too, experience the same level of dysphoria. Can't go more than 5 minutes without thinking about it unless I'm sleeping, high or drunk. When I was pre-T I couldn't function at all -- could barely even get out of bed. My entire life revolves around trying to cope with this

but we are not born cis-men.

If I had been born as a cis-man and I lost my penis Im sure I would freak out as well, manly because thats not something im use to, I would be used to have my penis there and then out of sudden I lost it and I wouldnt know what to do.

as trans I wasnt born with a penis, I got a small one T but still not like a cis-gendered one. So even thou I want a penis like that, I got more used to not having one, and then you have to think furture what your gonna do about it,

You need to understand that you are not alone in your feelings and it's ok to have such questions.  I have a similar situation to what you describe and, having never been around genderqueer or other non-binary individuals, I also felt confused at first finding so many variations within the FTM identity.  The important thing isn't resolving the "why's" and "how's" of what others feel comfortable with, but knowing that you have support here and that there are plenty of guys who feel the same level of dysphoria as you do and who want the same things.

Quote from: poptart on February 28, 2012, 12:36:42 PM
I don't understand either. Any cisgendered man's worst nightmare is losing his dick. It's not something they'd be OK with or able to say "out of sight, out of mind" about. But somehow the people on here don't care, and that is astounding to me.

I, too, experience the same level of dysphoria. Can't go more than 5 minutes without thinking about it unless I'm sleeping, high or drunk. When I was pre-T I couldn't function at all -- could barely even get out of bed. My entire life revolves around trying to cope with this

I agree, and I see where the original poster is coming from.
Only once Id started researching other ftms out there (this is after I began wanting to transition) did I find that so many people do not identify on the far end of the spectrum. I do find it quite astonishing too. To me, I am male, fully male. Im on T, had chest surgery and am having the phallo and hysto. I cant not. I completely refuse to acknowledge the "wrong parts" of me, (and dont understand why people would happily use them if they feel male....)
   So many people have more of a fluid gender, between male and female, like feminine male etc. I think it is this reason partly why I dont identify as even ftm anymore. Im just male. The ftm is for me, something I dont want to associate with, its more a medical term.

I had that extreme dysphoria you did, darknavy, its improved greatly with T and top surgery, but part of the worst bit isnt sorted yet. And I cant forget it, I have to deal with it and I hate it.
I respect the fact others feel and identify differently.
But yeah, I have felt at times that there doesnt seem to be out there, many people who can attach this term "ftm", who do have such strong dysphoria/strong strictly male identity.
   But we are all different, Im glad everyones not like me :p

I was like you at first thinknig the same thing about people not wanting bottom surgery or even any surgery or hormones at all but if there's one thing I learned from the trans community is to be open and to not shove opinions down people's throat.  I find myself having to avoid words like "better", "all" "every" "should" etc and to use more open ended words like "could", "perhaps", "maybe" "in my personal experience/opinion" "might" "but that's just me" "for me at least" etc.

Not every cis person is the same so why should all trans people be the same in their wants and needs?  Some transguys love what they have down there and live by the code "If it ain't broke don't fix it. "  Others hate what they have and some are neutural.  The same goes with the breasts.  By saying guys need to have surgery or be on hormones is detrimental to younger or confused guys who need guidence.  There's nothing wrong with redefining what it means to be man or woman.

Also be careful of telling guys that their body is wrong.  I know plenty of guys who for whatever reasons feel that their body is right.  This particular gentleman actually tells his reason on Youtube and it deals with his religion and spirituality and as a result refuses to physically transition.




I admit I do have dysphoria because of the time of the month thing and I do believe my lower parts are wrong. I am currently saving for top surgery and then a hysto and I would love to get a metoidioplasty but because of cost and my obesity that I'm trying to work on I may never reach that goal.  Does it make me less of a man?  No. 

To sum it up I'm glad to meet different Ftms who are different and similar to me.....now if I can just meet one who is about my weight lol.

You're not alone in your dysphoria, darknavy. And there are guys who experience intense dysphoria like what you describe without desire for bottom surgery. I had such intense dysphoria that I also had problems showering, running, etc. But mine was centered on what puberty did to my body, not so much on what I was born or not born with.

Also, I think that especially for guys in the US and other countries without NHS, the cost is so prohibitive that a lot of guys just make peace with what they've got. If a guy knows he'll probably never be able to afford it or the results will never be to his liking, what choice does he really have?

Quote from: poptart on February 28, 2012, 12:36:42 PM
I don't understand either. Any cisgendered man's worst nightmare is losing his dick. It's not something they'd be OK with or able to say "out of sight, out of mind" about. But somehow the people on here don't care, and that is astounding to me.

I, too, experience the same level of dysphoria. Can't go more than 5 minutes without thinking about it unless I'm sleeping, high or drunk. When I was pre-T I couldn't function at all -- could barely even get out of bed. My entire life revolves around trying to cope with this

I'm sorry guys, but I really see where he is coming from. I feel very similar about this and want to have a body as close as to the one I feel I should've been born with as possible. I'm really uncomfortable in "this" body unless I'm in some hypnagogic state. A lot of guys won't get bottom surgery because some of results are really poor right now and I understand that part of it (even though I want it), but as far not getting top surgery I don't understand why any male identified person would be proud of their fatty breast tissue, which is essentially produced by estrogenic effects on the body. If any bioguy was boastful about having man boobs, it would baffle me all the same. Nonetheless, I try my best to be accepting of people who are different to me, even though I don't think I will ever quite understand it.

I hate labels but perhaps this will help.. There is a difference between the terms 'transsexual' and 'transgender'. And in their true meaning, they are not interchangable - although most people think they are. I have grabbed this info from the FTM Australia website so go check that out if you want to read more www.ftmaustralia.org and this is just my 0.02c...

Basically the term 'transgender' was coined by a cross dressing man, who wanted to live as a woman without hormones or surgery. She coined the term to refer to transgender people separately and distinctly from transsexual people. Transgender people generally recognise multiple genders or a gender spectrum, some will have one gender their whole life and others will shift along the continuum, some identify as having multiple genders all at once, others prefer a more fluid presentation, some avoid permanent changes, some are naturally androgenous and able to live with no medical interventions at all and some use medical assistance to relieve their discomfort through a range of different strategies. "Eschewing any strict male-femal dichotomy, transgendered people instead reach for a wide mixtures of male and female restructured anatomies and manifest masculine and feminine styles.." - Prof. Milton Diamond, 2000.

Transsexual men generally have an unchanging male core, never change gender, strongly feels his body didn't develop the way it should have, requires medical treatment to resolve his physical discomfort, seeks correction of his legal sex, fundamentally and irrevocably male, is not described by terms like FTM, transgender, transman etc. "Transsexualism is the unshakeable feeling that you belong to the other sex.. There's no way out for transsexuals than to adapt the body to the mind.." - Prof. Louis Gooren, 2000.

This is a really good table for those interested too http://www.ftmaustralia.org/transition-info/transgendertranssexualism-table

Again I hate labels. But if I had to pick one - I'm a man, with a transsexual past. FTM and 'transman' suited me to explain my situation to others when I was first coming out but I never felt they truly described me, I could say the same for 'lesbian' when I was living as one of them. I was assigned female at birth incorrectly and I will do anything in my power to correct that in this lifetime. I don't necessarily understand those who don't want surgery or hormones but I don't have to - that's the beauty of us being our own people and on our own journey. I would never judge anyone for I do not want to be judged myself. But I must admit anyone who doesn't feel exactly as I do - I put in the transgendered group. I'm a very down the line kind of guy and the definitions are there. But again - we are all living our own lives and answer to only ourselves.

So my answer to the OP how can one be transsexual if you don't want SRS - simple, you can't.

j.

i'v wondered about this myself but don't we believe its a state of mind already? its different for each person granted but i personally wavier about things like T. i mean top surgery is a no-brainer, if i could get rid of them tomorrow i would but i'm always concerned about the medical repercussions of T for example knowing full well that i may not be able to get necessary medical procedures because of it and also the long term effects. do i feel it would make me more complete? absolutely. could i live without it? i don't know, is it worth my life? is it worth seeing my little brother grow up? as for bottom surgery, when they can grow me a dick from my own DNA we will talk but at the end of the day my gender is in my head, what makes me physically different as a pre-o then non-o if thats what we are talking about. its all about intent really, or am i wrong in concluding that?

If I woke up tomorrow and had naturally grown a dick overnight (as in, more growth than what has happened on T), sure, I'd love that.

But, fairies aside, my only option would be to go through a course of several surgeries, sacrifice a so-called donor site (who says a penis is worth more than an arm? you sure a cis guy would sacrifice the appearance of his arm any time to reconstruct a penis? not so sure about it), cope with complications and fistula and hope to be able to pee standing up at some point. I would have to leave work for surgery and there are no guarantees regarding sexual sensation.

I feel slightly alerted when I hear guys who haven't gone on T and haven't had top surgery talk about how we should all want bottom surgery. First off, dysphoria usually changes significantly after top surgery and once T is working its way through the system. Secondly, top surgery gives you a fairly good idea of what bottom surgery might be like. One experiences the recovery time it takes, the numbness that will only go away after months for most, the way it feels to be not in perfect physical condition for a while. Multiply that experience by 10 to 20 (just a guess), and you're getting close to the effects of bottom surgery. Any romantic dream of waking up with a dick that works....is just that, a dream.

Then, there's the practical considerations. Some of us think "never change a running system", and that is a fair way to feel about it, isn't it? Bottom surgery changes a running system into a system that may in many cases be flawed ,,,,and some people just want to pee in peace.
I live in a country where bottom surgery is covered by insurance, so more people get it; not all of them can pee without difficulty after that; not all of them have good sexual sensation; nearly none of them only had the three surgeries (phalloplasty, pump and glans), there were usually follow-up surgeries required; many aren't happy with their results.

Then I'd also like to mention prosthetics. People who have lost a limb use them, people who never had that limb to begin with can use them as well.
On the other hand, there is no real analogy between cis men who have lost a penis and transguys, since we do have a clitoris developing into what I refer to as a micropenis on T. So a transguy on T could rather be compared to a guy with a micropenis. We don't expect men with micropenisses to get a "proper sized penis" via surgery. If he can accept his genitalia the way they are, we actually see that as a sign that they are at peace with themselves.
--     Why would it be wrong for an FTM to be at peace with himself? An FTM doesn't need to feel miserable with himself for the rest of his life to prove he is FTM. Instead, he needs to find his very own way to get to where he feels at peace with himself. The less medical measures need to be undertaken to get there, the better for him, in my opinion.

When I see a man who is fine with his body, despite certain physical features that would cause insecurities, dysphoria, depression etc. in other guys, I feel happy for him. How can he be FTM? He can be FTM because he knows he is, and because that's how he identifies.

As a guy who plans on getting top surgery as well as hormones in the near future I completely understand what you mean for that. But as a guy who does not plan on getting any bottom surgery I will explain. To me, its about the results. I have this image in my mind of what I would want resulted of a surgery and because as of now the surgeries can't give me that, I don't feel comfortable getting any bottom surgery. But in the future if things improved a lot, there would be no doubt in my mind that I would be one of the first to sign up. I personally can't deal with surgerys that don't give me what I have invisioned. Its bad, i know. But thats how I feel and I can't help but feel that way.

Quote from: emil on February 28, 2012, 05:44:01 PM

I feel slightly alerted when I hear guys who haven't gone on T and haven't had top surgery talk about how we should all want bottom surgery. First off, dysphoria usually changes significantly after top surgery and once T is working its way through the system. Secondly, top surgery gives you a fairly good idea of what bottom surgery might be like. One experiences the recovery time it takes, the numbness that will only go away after months for most, the way it feels to be not in perfect physical condition for a while. Multiply that experience by 10 to 20 (just a guess), and you're getting close to the effects of bottom surgery. Any romantic dream of waking up with a dick that works....is just that, a dream.

This.  I concur.