Quote from: Padma on March 12, 2012, 02:01:13 PM
I find it more than a bit creepy how this topic has morphed into a completely new one: "Your take on someone else transitioning but keeping a male voice..."

I was interested to hear different people's reasons for doing one or the other, but I'm really not interested in other people strafing me for my own particular choice.

It always seems to be like that. People have a hard time separating "what is right for me" from "what is right." Sometimes it is just an accident of wording. Sometimes... it's not.

I really like your new avatar btw. That hairstyle looks pretty adorbs.

Cheers - I overreacted a bit, mind you (late taking my meds ). I do get the sense that those of us who don't want to change our voices have no problem with those that do, but that the feeling isn't mutual. And since I got this quite spontaneously today from an old friend on the phone as well, I'm feeling beleaguered.

Yeah, yeah, it's a big hit with everyone (Buffy quote)

I don't want to derail this topic either, I just think there's a difference between saying "this is what I'm doing, and why" and saying "this is what I'm doing, and every mtf worthy of the name should be doing this or they're a blight on the community" - which is a sort of compilation of different responses I feel those of us who aren't changing our voices have been on the receiving end of here. Maybe no one person actually feels that strongly about it, but the combined effect is quite daunting.

ok, well like I say, people need to really just find that voice they feel comfortable with, don't worry too much, if you can't get your voice up that "high pitched bimbo" voice people seem to think all women should sound like - mainly MEN :p

Oh, also if you feel you HAVE to change your voice, to conform to social behaviour and gender recognition, then you really need to get new friends, ignore them, or what ever, move to a more socially liberal place. Just joking, but just don't let it get you down, having a male voice during transition is just another one of the boxes to cross off along the way, on your "to DO" list. Plus yeah a tape recorder or what ever works for you, I don't think there is any actual official must "have" list, but what ever helps right ?

Catherine.

lol meeeyoow. hmmm. Actually that is winding my cat up

Quote from: Padma on March 12, 2012, 03:11:34 PM
saying "this is what I'm doing, and why" and saying "this is what I'm doing, and every mtf worthy of the name should be doing this or they're a blight on the community"

I hope I didn't come across that way. I was just trying to relay my experience living full time with a male voice for several years and what changing my voice has done for me.

That video gives me an insane amount of cognitive dissonance.  The voice does not match the appearance.  That's kind of like going to the beach in a speedo where everyone can see your junk.  Or shaving your head close and displaying a male pattern of hair and no curvature of the scalp.  But still expecting them to treat you like a woman.  Seriously - that's asking a helluvalot from other people, esp strangers.  It's like there's not quite enough effort being put into it and I have trouble taking that person seriously.  If a transgirl goes to all that trouble to appear femme, and then does nothing with her voice, many people won't know how to address her.  At least if she makes an effort, even if her voice isn't "perfect" (mine is far from perfect), most people will pick up on that and they'll see what she's trying to accomplish, and most will go with it.  With her, it's like...uh, what's going on here and how do I respond to it?  The gender queues are all outta whack!  I regularly encounter deep voices on women(I work in corporate IT and the women there tend to talk from their chest as they are assertive, strong women), so it's totally cool to have a deep FEMALE voice.  Deep male voice + ultrafemme appearance = how the ef do I respond to this person without a back and forth that might drudge up things in public that they'd rather weren't brought up?

Just my two cents.  I have a pretty strong opinion on the voice.

I guess it depends on what matters to you.   Like I've told y'all before I'm hearing impaired.   I tend to focus on the sound of a person's voice more than another person.  If you don't want to get "clocked" then I can see it being important.  But there are plenty of women with deep voices.   Perhaps you could keep both.  When I get pissed off I start busting out the biggest Brooklyn accent in the world.  But normally I don't have a NYC accent.   Hmm

Thinking of Suzanne Pleshette  and other "smoker types"   like Lucille Ball's voice went so deep when she got older compared to her whiney voice on I Love Lucy

As is the pattern here, people are getting defensive due to others being defensive.

Ah... The Circle of Susan's.

Voice is important to me... but my man voice is very masculine and one of my biggest tells. It was one of the first things I started working on. I'd like to be treated as a woman and see voice as a tool to reach that goal.

Not your cup of tea? Fine. I don't like sharing my tea. :p

Quote from: Maya Zimmerman on March 12, 2012, 09:26:09 PM
This, I believe, sums up Padma's reservations about the opinions being expressed pretty well.  I take it you ladies have never met a real live genderqueer or androgyne person before and perhaps you could consider that there are some on this very site.  What's staggering to me is that I do know genderqueer people in real life and they get by in cis society just fine.  Yes, sometimes people give them funny looks, but they are respected and they are taken seriously, something I'm really disappointed to see as too difficult for many of the trans people on this site.

Forgive me if I'm not mistaken, but aren't genderqueer less caring about whether the world sees them as male or female? If that's the case, then what she said doesn't really apply. I think what she (and I) are trying to relay is: if you want to seriously be taken as a female to the fullest extent of whatever it embodies, then it's going to be much, much more difficult to accomplish your goals if you have an unmistakable male voice, and male speech pattern.

See, what I'm reading here a lot is "If you want to be accepted as female, you have to be feminine" whereas my experience on the whole is that if you want to be accepted as female, you just have to be female. Look at women and your will see the full spectrum out there. I don't expect us to have the same goals, since the woman I am is not feminine (nor is she masculine). And I'm no less a woman for that, I'm merely one of the millions of less feminine women out there. I don't consider myself as 'androgyne' so much as a fairly androgynous woman.

It drives me freakin' bonkers when transgirls have deep manly voices! You don't have to talk valley girl, or girly girl, you can talk butch lesbian if you want, as long as you more or less sound female.

If you're happy looking like a woman and sounding male, who the hell cares what others think.

Society cares, if you're getting clocked as being trans everywhere you go. You are in potential danger. Because like it or not, some insecure people are offended by our very existence.

Maybe those who want to keep their male voice don't care what society thinks.

Quote from: Renee D on March 13, 2012, 10:24:38 AM
I figure its up to the person whether they wish to have to deal with that or not. Not really our place to expect them to conform to our standards of what a trans woman or woman should be.

+1000000000000000000

You should care about what society thinks. Because Society may cast you out, assault you and possibly even murder you. It's really for your own safety that you should "blend" with society.

In that case you should have stayed male.

do whatever you feel comfortable with, and if she's comfortable with her male voice, then everyone else should shut their mouth.

Quote from: Zarania on March 13, 2012, 12:07:14 PM
do whatever you feel comfortable with, and if she's comfortable with her male voice, then everyone else should shut their mouth.

Should, but good luck with that.

My opinions on the matter are if you want to be seen as a girl, fine by me. I'll call you she her and all the other girl pronouns and treat you like one, male voice or female voice. But the things I say are just like a "well I'm just trying to tell you what to expect from most people."

Do what you do baby boo. It's all about you. But don't get mad at the world because people aren't calling you by the proper pronouns when you're talking like Barry White. Voice is almost as telling as thick facial hair