http://www.transkids.us/myth.html

I love crazies. So much fun reading their stuff sometimes.

Quote from: Tazia of the Omineca on March 22, 2012, 06:11:31 PM
http://www.transkids.us/myth.html

I love crazies. So much fun reading their stuff sometimes.

Except that is correct. There is a huge difference between ->-bleeped-<- transsexuals and HS transsexuals.

Yup I just like some of the ideas, it's fun to read.
Some of the ideas are pretty radical.

This is a brand new "science", where so called statistical studies are done among a population of 100 people ( hilariously maybe they couldnt recruit anyone else ). Radical is a compliment, this is basically not science.

Being a science girl and strongly believing in human progress it s kinda insulting to see such hypotheis, kind of like seeing someone with a degree and phd sustaining that the  sun revolves around the earth and even listening someone claiming "oh it's right". It happens, there are even more people that believe in Rosewell so everything can be believed.

But consider this: there are good doctors and mediocre ones just as in every field, so the insults to science made by some mediocre ones are mitigated by the comic side of the story.
If you re not into scientifical things and read those bad written weird things, you really come to conclude it could be possible, so before choosing your side, read just any other book ( whose author is not listed there ) to make a proper comparison between theories and bull->-bleeped-<-s.

I get a ton of flak for it but honestly I mostly agree.

There are very clearly different archetypes in MTF transsexuals and if that's not obvious after a while of browsing susan's I don't know what could make it.

I think it's harmful to lump everyone together claiming we all feel the same things when everyone has their own motivations in transition. And obviously, some are more nature and some are more nurture. I feel like "girly"/straight MTFs are very marginalized in the trans community, even though you would expect them to be the norm.

And I'm not being elitist. I'm just honest. I am not going to pretend like I can't tell the difference between an MTF who really always was feminine and couldn't have been anything else, and an MTF who fathered children and built a professional career and life as a man. What's the point? Why force everyone to conform to some replacement definition of femininity where anything under the sun is 100% feminine just because you want it to be?

Everyone is different ! Luckily! Some is mre feminine some more masculine, just like any other guy or girl.
But being moved by autogynephilya is far from being correct and far from talking about the differences amongst us, that's another story.

If someone is interested in why and who says so you can read here
http://www.tsroadmap.com/info/lawrence/anne-lawrence-incident.html

"If the BSTc studies have any validity at all then they seem like they might actually show that the transsexuals who were being studied (all six of them) had transsexual brains since most transsexuals behave like transsexuals and not like girls or women."

Bahaha! There is nothing "scientific" about the link in the OP. The sentence above pretty much typifies the kind of pseudo-science hogwash the author was participating in. What does a transsexual "behave like." What does a "girl or woman" behave like? A lot of the ->-bleeped-<- written in that article comes down the era the person grew up in, the society, the family etc. There's a reason why trans people are transitioning younger over the last few years, vs. many older trans people who ended up transitioning later in life. If you look back 30 years ago there weren't many transitioning in their teens. Today it's not all that uncommon.

Quote from: pretty on March 22, 2012, 07:25:13 PM
I get a ton of flak for it but honestly I mostly agree.

There are very clearly different archetypes in MTF transsexuals and if that's not obvious after a while of browsing susan's I don't know what could make it.

I think it's harmful to lump everyone together claiming we all feel the same things when everyone has their own motivations in transition. And obviously, some are more nature and some are more nurture. I feel like "girly"/straight MTFs are very marginalized in the trans community, even though you would expect them to be the norm.

And I'm not being elitist. I'm just honest. I am not going to pretend like I can't tell the difference between an MTF who really always was feminine and couldn't have been anything else, and an MTF who fathered children and built a professional career and life as a man. What's the point? Why force everyone to conform to some replacement definition of femininity where anything under the sun is 100% feminine just because you want it to be?

This. This. This. This. So much.

I really wish we had the ignore thread feature back.  That theory is very divisive since you must be ->-bleeped-<- or HSTS.  Why do we keep trying to break apart into many smaller groups.  Even together we are barely enough to fight for equality.

I also find it hilarious that the group that supports ->-bleeped-<-/HSTS feels they are picked on.  By using your standard than any non-straight transwoman is really just a man with a fetish.  There we DO argue against this stupid theory not to attack you, but to defend ourselves.

This comes up from time to time and it always ends up locked so why go there.  Why do we have to be either/or?

Just for grins I'm actually going to do a short summary of my earlier life and I want you to ignore orientation for now and tell me which narrative that fits best.

I knew and told my (grand)parents at the age of 5.  I thought that if I pushed my penis inside then it would dig a hole and finally be able to fall off.  I played with the girls all through school.  I had boys sniffing around me as early as 11, One of them flirted in front of my bio father (who was drug dealing trash) while we were living with him at the time and he ran the boy off and I was in SERIOUS trouble because he thought I was doing it on purpose.  I've always had a feminine voice on the phone.  Most people in high school just "knew" I was gay, and said my answer was just denial.  While I was still in college one of my few male childhood friend's girlfriend tried to drag me off to her room so we could look at her PlayGirls after a gathering was ending.  My own (grand) parents were convinced I was gay, I heard them whisper it many times.  I despise sports and only took swimming because I had to.  It was VERY traumatic to me to not wear a top, but my (grand) parents dictated my class schedule.  I dislike macho activities (wrestling, MMA, armed forces, body building).  Any time I've done anything like that it was because a friend/co-worker insisted and I stopped as soon as I found a good enough excuse.

Reading that if I actually liked guys I would be a classic HSTS wouldn't I?  But because I like women I must be just an ->-bleeped-<- fetishist.  And even then the ->-bleeped-<- definition doesn't really fit me at all.  I do love my wife and our children and am glad we had them, but I was doing what I thought I was supposed to be doing.

Quote from: Berserk on March 22, 2012, 07:35:11 PM
"If the BSTc studies have any validity at all then they seem like they might actually show that the transsexuals who were being studied (all six of them) had transsexual brains since most transsexuals behave like transsexuals and not like girls or women."

Bahaha! There is nothing "scientific" about the link in the OP. The sentence above pretty much typifies the kind of pseudo-science hogwash the author was participating in. What does a transsexual "behave like." What does a "girl or woman" behave like? A lot of the ->-bleeped-<- written in that article comes down the era the person grew up in, the society, the family etc. There's a reason why trans people are transitioning younger over the last few years, vs. many older trans people who ended up transitioning later in life. If you look back 30 years ago there weren't many transitioning in their teens. Today it's not all that uncommon.

Yep. Forget fight or flight. The most common reaction to oppression seems to be to run to your oppressor and beg: "Don't hate me! I am not like those people! I'm not nearly as inferior as those people. See? I've already bought into your supremacist mindset! I can hate them too! You'll see!".

What kind of self-respecting different gender loving transsexual would call themself homosexual anyway?

Quote from: Jeneva on March 22, 2012, 08:20:45 PM
Just for grins I'm actually going to do a short summary of my earlier life and I want you to ignore orientation for now and tell me which narrative that fits best.

I knew and told my (grand)parents at the age of 5.  I thought that if I pushed my penis inside then it would dig a hole and finally be able to fall off.  I played with the girls all through school.  I had boys sniffing around me as early as 11, One of them flirted in front of my bio father (who was drug dealing trash) while we were living with him at the time and he ran the boy off and I was in SERIOUS trouble because he thought I was doing it on purpose.  I've always had a feminine voice on the phone.  Most people in high school just "knew" I was gay, and said my answer was just denial.  While I was still in college one of my few male childhood friend's girlfriend tried to drag me off to her room so we could look at her PlayGirls after a gathering was ending.  My own (grand) parents were convinced I was gay, I heard them whisper it many times.  I despise sports and only took swimming because I had to.  It was VERY traumatic to me to not wear a top, but my (grand) parents dictated my class schedule.  I dislike macho activities (wrestling, MMA, armed forces, body building).  Any time I've done anything like that it was because a friend/co-worker insisted and I stopped as soon as I found a good enough excuse.

Reading that if I actually liked guys I would be a classic HSTS wouldn't I?  But because I like women I must be just an ->-bleeped-<- fetishist.  And even then the ->-bleeped-<- definition doesn't really fit me at all.  I do love my wife and our children and am glad we had them, but I was doing what I thought I was supposed to be doing.

Pfft. That's easy. You're lying, either about your history, your sexuality, your gender expression, or your trans status. Or you're just plain nuts. What good is a privilege pecking order without a nice catch-all for people you can't put in one box or another? Compare bisexuality, biracial identity, non-binary gender identity, children of multifaith homes, etc.

Quote from: pretty on March 22, 2012, 07:25:13 PM
I get a ton of flak for it but honestly I mostly agree.

There are very clearly different archetypes in MTF transsexuals and if that's not obvious after a while of browsing susan's I don't know what could make it.

  I agree there are many different types and sub-types of transsexuals.

QuoteI think it's harmful to lump everyone together claiming we all feel the same things when everyone has their own motivations in transition.

I think the problem most ts have is that it's makes hsts look like the "elite" of transsexuals and any other type of transsexual is not as legit. Most of us do have different motivations for transitioning but we're all transsexuals hence we're the same regardless of want we're attracted to and how we express ourselves.

   I'm attracted to men and express myself femininely but that doesn't make me a "true transsexual, a primary transsexual, or a hsts" that just makes me a woman attracted to men. I don't see what the big deal is, if you identify as female and are happier living that way...then what does it matter what your sexually attracted to?

  People get so worked up over this topic lol.

 

Sheeesh.  Not this stuff.  My brain, it hurts, it hurts!

Pidgeonholing only works well if all you have is a hammer - then everything is a nail!

As far as I am concerned, you are what you are, but there may be possibly many different reasons as to why.  Given the sheer numbers of factors involved here, I would say that it's highly unlikely we'd ever really untangle this and broadly classifying everyone into a few narrow categories is likely to be less than helpful IMHO.  As for the studies themselves, retrospectives are fantastic in the fact that you can skew the data or select your subjects to suit the outcome you want.

Quote from: raya on March 22, 2012, 08:28:01 PM
Yep. Forget fight or flight. The most common reaction to oppression seems to be to run to your oppressor and beg: "Don't hate me! I am not like those people! I'm not nearly as inferior as those people. See? I've already bought into your supremacist mindset! I can hate them too! You'll see!".

What kind of self-respecting different gender loving transsexual would call themself homosexual anyway?

This made me lol, but it's so true. It's time we get over these dated theories and stop with the self-hatred.

  Dated, yes.  When I went to the shrink for "transsexualism" in 1977, he had me read a paper by a psychologist titled Victor/Victoria.  The title was a pseudonym using the title of the Broadway play.  The movie hadn't come out yet when I read it and I didn't know the play existed.  This paper was about one of his patients that went through the M-F transition.  He described transsexualism as a perversion as with homosexuality.  He used his patient as the basis for his thesis. 
  He described the first sessions with 'Victor' as an effeminate male that walked and talked like a female and described in detail the mannerisms.  He put Victor on hormones after several sessions to transition to Victoria.  The physical changes came and after more sessions he recommended the surgery.  With the surgery done and the name changes done legally, he recommended more therapy sessions.  Victoria now had some problems with her family due to the transition but that subsided.  Time went by and Victoria did not change her sexual preference from female to male.  This caused friction with her family and they were calling her "Vicky the dykie" when she was still dating females.  Victoria was detransitioning as the paper was written due to the homosexual label.  At the time homosexuality was still being treated as a psychological disorder. 
  This was one of the reasons that my transition was postponed until now.  I am not gay.  Sorry to disappoint some of you.
  Joelene
  Post # 1,000

Quote from: Joelene9 on March 22, 2012, 10:53:03 PM
  Dated, yes.  When I went to the shrink for "transsexualism" in 1977, he had me read a paper by a psychologist titled Victor/Victoria.  The title was a pseudonym using the title of the Broadway play.  The movie hadn't come out yet when I read it and I didn't know the play existed.  This paper was about one of his patients that went through the M-F transition.  He described transsexualism as a perversion as with homosexuality.  He used his patient as the basis for his thesis. 
  He described the first sessions with 'Victor' as an effeminate male that walked and talked like a female and described in detail the mannerisms.  He put Victor on hormones after several sessions to transition to Victoria.  The physical changes came and after more sessions he recommended the surgery.  With the surgery done and the name changes done legally, he recommended more therapy sessions.  Victoria now had some problems with her family due to the transition but that subsided.  Time went by and Victoria did not change her sexual preference from female to male.  This caused friction with her family and they were calling her "Vicky the dykie" when she was still dating females.  Victoria was detransitioning as the paper was written due to the homosexual label.  At the time homosexuality was still being treated as a psychological disorder. 
  This was one of the reasons that my transition was postponed until now.  I am not gay.  Sorry to disappoint some of you.
  Joelene

If being queer (for this post = everything not straight and cis) has taught me anything, it's that people see what they want to see. All the worse when they have so much power. It's like psychology thinks there aren't enough minorities who'd rather eat glass than trust them.

If it makes you feel better, I bought into a lot of that crap too. I didn't know from the time I was 4, I never considered myself all that feminine, and I like playing sports! My only real non-dysphoria related gripe with sports and other "male" activities is all that I'm allergic to alpha male posturing.

In the end, we are all responsible for our own happiness. I'm at least happy that you found yours, however long that took.