Quote from: Sephirah on April 14, 2012, 04:16:11 PM
Probably not a good idea to be discussing it in a public thread.

Not to mention, it's deviating from the thread subject.

(Don't want to step on any toes here, old habits die hard I guess, lol)

will do. thanks.

Was I insulted? Odd... I don't feel insulted.

I'm sorry for bringing the topic off track.

Quote from: A on April 14, 2012, 04:19:58 PM
I'm sorry for bringing the topic off track.

So on that note, let's return to the original topic:

Quote from: Malachite on April 10, 2012, 09:50:31 PM
Hi there I hope I'm not intruding on anything and I didn't know the best way to to word this question in the title.  I hope no one finds this question offensive.

Before transitioning were you ever concerned about losing what some may consider "male privlilege" or just the whole concept/aura of being a "dominant strong male" perhaps or something of the sort?  How did did you handle it and was that part of the reason you may have held off transitioning?

Quote from: Malachite on April 14, 2012, 02:47:11 PM
@Trixie I appreciate your honesty.  If I may ask, how often does male privilege conflict with your gender idenity if it is an issue for you?

Well, I'm almost completely closeted... so all the time... or never? I'm not sure I understand the question.

Men... in my opinion... do have it better than woman in a lot of ways. That's just my opinion, nobody go crazy at me please, yes, I realize sexism goes the other way too sometimes.

I know that I wouldn't be taken as seriously if I were publicly a woman, much less a transwoman.

Quote from: Trixie on April 14, 2012, 04:31:16 PM
Well, I'm almost completely closeted... so all the time... or never? I'm not sure I understand the question.

Men... in my opinion... do have it better than woman in a lot of ways. That's just my opinion, nobody go crazy at me please, yes, I realize sexism goes the other way too sometimes.

I know that I wouldn't be taken as seriously if I were publicly a woman, much less a transwoman.

Like does it ever upset you if you desire to transition but transitioning may not be the best for you privilege wise in your situation?  How do you cope with being closeted?

Quote from: Beverley on April 14, 2012, 02:10:13 AM
Let me give you an example.

At one point we needed to get another car so we went to a small dealer and picked out the car we wanted, did the test drive. I told the salesman that it was for my wife (who was standing beside me - I was male at the time) so she needed to test drive it. He went and got the keys and gave them to ME.

When we purchased the car both of us where together and I had not brought my wallet but she had her handbag. So SHE paid for the car with her bank card. The salesman then got out the paperwork to be filled in. "What is your wife's name?" he asked ME. She was right there and had just spent a few thousand.

That is male privilege and I was getting it in bucket loads.

WOW-Did your wife ever call the salesman on it? 

Quote from: Stephe on April 10, 2012, 11:10:46 PM
It didn't affect me wanting or not wanting to transition but I am amazed how much differently women are treated from men. Especially by men. I never was a "strong male" but men do get a pass on many things women don't, no matter how manly the man is or isn't. I was a super girly "man" for many years but still had "male privilege"

Again it's mainly how men treat women. Most now see me as helpless and dumb. I can't just go like buy a computer part without some guy trying to "help me" or question I know what I'm talking about. "You probably should let someone else look at this for you" is a common thing I hear now. They guys at the hardware store look at me like I'm crazy for asking for something like a plumbing part there. "Did your husband send you with a list?" Don't even get me started about dealing with car stuff as a woman lol. I have learned this is part of being a woman and just laugh when it happens.

And no, I'm not going to become helpless, weak and dumb to fit their stereotype/view of how women are.

What do you say to those types of comments?

Quote from: Malachite on April 14, 2012, 04:37:51 PM
Like does it ever upset you if you desire to transition but transitioning may not be the best for you privilege wise in your situation?  How do you cope with being closeted?

Yes, it does. I could probably deal with the loss of privilege, but I wouldn't like it. The "taboo-ness" and the social ostracization, rejection from family etc. would be far worse for me.

As for how I cope? I don't... not very well. I'm not even sure of my gender identity anymore... I really don't know. I just know that I'd prefer to be female, and to be recognized as female, but I don't know if it's worth it for me to be open about that. It's frightening, and I regret telling the people I have told.

A reminder:

Quote
2. Any attempts to stage protests, dispute the site policy, the TOS/rules, or actions of the staff; in the public areas of this site will not be tolerated and will result in your removal. If you have issues I suggest you contact Susan by email, or forum private message, and not bring your issues into the public spaces on this website. For the proper way to raise issues see term #20 below.

Quote from: MacKenzie on April 14, 2012, 05:22:37 PM
Lol play nice ladies! 

*sigh*

Quote from: Trixie on April 14, 2012, 04:45:45 PM
Yes, it does. I could probably deal with the loss of privilege, but I wouldn't like it. The "taboo-ness" and the social ostracization, rejection from family etc. would be far worse for me.

As for how I cope? I don't... not very well. I'm not even sure of my gender identity anymore... I really don't know. I just know that I'd prefer to be female, and to be recognized as female, but I don't know if it's worth it for me to be open about that. It's frightening, and I regret telling the people I have told.

In a way I can kind of relate.  Sometimes I wonder if it's worth it for me to transition.  At times I feel that I may lose more privileges than I would gain not that I would be transitioning to gain any privileges.  I haven't told most people in my family how I felt but the two people I have told in my family is against it.  -sigh-

Quote from: Malachite on April 14, 2012, 04:37:51 PM
What do you say to those types of comments?

I tell them "no, I figured this out without his help" and they look stunned. lol

It's funny my boyfriend is clueless about these types of things. I'm sure though if he went in with my list, they would never assume someone sent him there..

Quote from: Beverley on April 14, 2012, 02:10:13 AM
Let me give you an example.

At one point we needed to get another car so we went to a small dealer and picked out the car we wanted, did the test drive. I told the salesman that it was for my wife (who was standing beside me - I was male at the time) so she needed to test drive it. He went and got the keys and gave them to ME.

When we purchased the car both of us where together and I had not brought my wallet but she had her handbag. So SHE paid for the car with her bank card. The salesman then got out the paperwork to be filled in. "What is your wife's name?" he asked ME. She was right there and had just spent a few thousand.

That is male privilege and I was getting it in bucket loads.

Am I supposed to feel bad that I would rather have my boyfriend handle this situation for me?

I hate car dealerships 

Quote from: Malachite on April 10, 2012, 09:50:31 PM
Before transitioning were you ever concerned about losing what some may consider "male privlilege"

An example from my life is the issue of equal pay.  Before I started to transition I realised that I would forego a significant amount of future earnings by working as a woman.  Not only due to 'same pay for the same work' type issues which do occur in my field, but also due to the 'glass ceiling' effect.

I am of course grateful that I live in a western society with good equal rights legislation, but I do know that by the end of my career a man with equivalent qualifications and career path will, in all likelihood have earned more than me and secured a higher position.  I also know that I will have to prove to others that a woman can succeed in my field in a way that I never had to pre-transition.

For me, transition reached a point where it became inevitable - so the option of staying male in the interests of my career never truly existed.  I simply accept that I will now face the same struggles for equality in my field as any other woman.

Quote from: Laura26 on April 15, 2012, 04:14:04 AM
An example from my life is the issue of equal pay.  Before I started to transition I realised that I would forego a significant amount of future earnings by working as a woman.  Not only due to 'same pay for the same work' type issues which do occur in my field, but also due to the 'glass ceiling' effect.

I am of course grateful that I live in a western society with good equal rights legislation, but I do know that by the end of my career a man with equivalent qualifications and career path will, in all likelihood have earned more than me and secured a higher position.  I also know that I will have to prove to others that a woman can succeed in my field in a way that I never had to pre-transition.

For me, transition reached a point where it became inevitable - so the option of staying male in the interests of my career never truly existed.  I simply accept that I will now face the same struggles for equality in my field as any other woman.

It's all worth it if you get to live as who you truly are then. 

Quote from: A on April 14, 2012, 12:50:03 PM
1. Stop thinking you're intruding, duh.

2. Where I live, there's no such thing as a male privilege, except maybe a traditional preference for males in high, leading jobs like directors and politicians... even though it's changing as the old men are retiring.

Actually, I've only ever hit a female privilege that I lacked. It's not exactly a positive thing, but nowadays, females are stereotypically regarded as superwomen who can take care of children alone, work and imply themselves in their community, all responsibly, whilst males are supposedly sexual, aggressive and misadapted people who can only barely manage a job, failing to take care of housework efficiently. It's like men are women's children. It's not to such an extent, and it's not in everyone, but it's sort of the idea that's going around. Like it's revenge for past sexism.

Females are more regarded than males in many sectors, be it social relations or even work. For example, a theatre once turned me back saying that they didn't hire guys.

Also, females who work in traditionally male environments (computers, mechanical and construction workers, truck driving) are usually encouraged, whilst males in the opposite position (secretaries, nurses, children guardians) are generally disregarded ("it's gay!") or distrusted ("you'll rape my children!")

All that to say that no, I don't feel I'm losing any male privilege.

I definitely agree with this, the pendulum is swinging hard the other way.

Among the group of friends I had in high school (7, including me); two dropped out, one committed suicide, and only one of us went on to any sort of post-secondary education. It just seems like males in general are giving up, both in the workforce and in school. When men are successful it's just par for the course, while if they fail they're seen as completely useless. It's disheartening to see the accomplishments of women being so exalted while men are demonized. I really feel for the boys/men growing up today where the prevailing attitude is that they're worth nothing more than support payments and sperm donations.

Male privilege? Yeah, about that...

Quote from: Hannah on April 19, 2012, 06:46:03 PM
I definitely agree with this, the pendulum is swinging hard the other way.

Among the group of friends I had in high school (7, including me); two dropped out, one committed suicide, and only one of us went on to any sort of post-secondary education. It just seems like males in general are giving up, both in the workforce and in school. When men are successful it's just par for the course, while if they fail they're seen as completely useless. It's disheartening to see the accomplishments of women being so exalted while men are demonized. I really feel for the boys/men growing up today where the prevailing attitude is that they're worth nothing more than support payments and sperm donations.

Male privilege? Yeah, about that...

Huh! Yes this has been my recent observation also. I continue to meet young woman working as waitresses or as barista's who are doing well in college with 3.8 and 4.0 GPA's, some are in graduate courses and headed for great careers. The guys are hanging out, pants crotch down at knee level, grab-assing, drinking, rolling fat doobers and going no-where with their lives. I've been wondering what is going on with this picture?

Quote from: Shantel on April 19, 2012, 07:29:09 PM
Huh! Yes this has been my recent observation also. I continue to meet young woman working as waitresses or as barista's who are doing well in college with 3.8 and 4.0 GPA's, some are in graduate courses and headed for great careers. The guys are hanging out, pants crotch down at knee level, grab-assing, drinking, rolling fat doobers and going no-where with their lives. I've been wondering what is going on with this picture?

Jeez doll, what places have you been visiting of late?

I our place we have females now having male mostly diseases like heart-attacks, because they can't emotionally cope with the pace of those top-jobs...

So... as always, nothing ever seems the same, eh

Axélle

Quote from: Axélle-Michélle on April 20, 2012, 03:41:29 AM
Jeez doll, what places have you been visiting of late?

I our place we have females now having male mostly diseases like heart-attacks, because they can't emotionally cope with the pace of those top-jobs...

So... as always, nothing ever seems the same, eh

Axélle

Well yes, I've taken note of that also. Perhaps the old stay-at-home housewife role isn't so bad after all! The recent politically motivated flare up between two women over this same issue started quite a brouhaha in the U.S. media.

Quote from: Malachite on April 10, 2012, 09:50:31 PM
Hi there I hope I'm not intruding on anything and I didn't know the best way to to word this question in the title.  I hope no one finds this question offensive.

Before transitioning were you ever concerned about losing what some may consider "male privlilege" or just the whole concept/aura of being a "dominant strong male" perhaps or something of the sort?  How did did you handle it and was that part of the reason you may have held off transitioning?

No.

Never even grasped the concept of it.

There are different kinds of male privilege, essentially there is the male who understands that he has privilege and takes advantage of it, uses it.  Then there is they guy who is oblivious and just benefits from it unwittingly.  Then there is the individual who suffers from socially crippling and life crippling GID and who never fit's in, never benefits from male privilege.

And then there are the feminists who accuse the person suffering from GID of male privilege when they really haven't got a clue but they love guilt-tripping a victim.

Anyway.. I know you aren't doing that, just something about transition that really bothered me and left scars.

Hi,

As to Privilege,

I have been given many privilege's in many details in my life,  now heres the twist can i claim that as a male or female,  the answer is i can claim more than many people can & its not based on am i a male or a woman,

Why because im intersexed   im both male / female,

Now next ? is , is there a difference , I can pull rank because i have the experance to be able to & i know what im doing I have had men work under myself in a number of fields millitay  building sites & farming community's , both in male & female clothes,

I allso can work under women & i do that as well plus males so its not a issue in fact its quite good,

So the privilege i was given on the basis of who i am as a person rather than wether im male or female or intersexed,

...noeleena...