Transgender person with penis can legally be a woman

http://www.montrealgazette.com/health/Transgender+person+with+penis+legally+woman/6488683/story.html
4/20/12
By TRISTAN HOPPER, Postmedia News

A man doesn't need to have his penis removed to legally become a woman, according to a new order from the Ontario Human Rights Tribunal.

In a 95-page decision issued April 11, Sheri Price, a vice-chair with the Ontario Human Rights Tribunal, gave the Ontario government 180 days to "revise the criteria for changing sex designation on a birth registration." Unless provincial authorities mount an appeal, Ontario will become the first Canadian jurisdiction to toss out genital surgery as a pre-requisite for a legal sex change.

Mercedes Allen, a writer on trans issues based in the Calgary area, said the decision is bound to spark some division within the trans community, particularly among those who have already undergone reassignment surgery.

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QuoteThe procedure (approximately $20,000 for a male-to-female, $60,000 for a female-to-male) can take between five and 10 years, leaving transgender people in an uncomfortable limbo where they are living as a new sex - yet using the passport and health card of their old sex. The discrepancy leaves transgender people open to a host of legal complications, most notably a section of Canada's air travel regulations that requires airlines not to seat a passenger if "the passenger does not appear to be of the gender indicated on the identification he or she presents."

Makes sense, IMO. If you're presenting as a woman in every other facet of your life, and have been for some time... well, not everyone is able to just go and get SRS immediately, regardless of how much they want it. I don't think it's right to deny someone the same legal rights as someone who has had it. They don't see themselves as any less of a woman if they're still waiting to have it done.

From what I can gather, it isn't just going to be a case of being able to waltz into the local government office on a whim and get one's documentation changed. But even so I guess it is probably gonna get a few people's heckles up.

It's been possible to change your passport in Canada without surgery for years. It's impressive that they don't know that. The things that get printed when you fire your editorial staff...

The ruling is just about the Birth Certificate, everything else could already be changed without surgery.

Here you can get a Passport, but an MtF's  Birth Certificate still needs SRS, which is discriminatory.  FtM however can, in Victoria at least, opt for Mastectomy and get through.  Breasts are considered to be a reproductive organ as they are involved in feeding.

Karen.

Quote from: justmeinoz on April 20, 2012, 08:30:46 AM
Here you can get a Passport, but an MtF's  Birth Certificate still needs SRS, which is discriminatory.  FtM however can, in Victoria at least, opt for Mastectomy and get through.  Breasts are considered to be a reproductive organ as they are involved in feeding.

So F**KING arbitrary. You know what the policy should be? They should ask you "Do you want an M or an F here?" and then that's what they should put. Seriously.

Quote from: justmeinoz on April 20, 2012, 08:30:46 AM
Here you can get a Passport, but an MtF's  Birth Certificate still needs SRS, which is discriminatory.  FtM however can, in Victoria at least, opt for Mastectomy and get through.  Breasts are considered to be a reproductive organ as they are involved in feeding.

Karen.

As a German citizen you won't even get a passport (with a gender change) if the birth-certificate was not amended in the first place.
That in turn is only done if a judge knows you had 3 years RLE, that there is no reasonable doubt that you will change back - and all to be certified by one shrink that works for him, and one that created a certificate for your SRS.
PLUS of course the SRS surgeon's certificate stating that you had SRS.
He will then issue a court order so your birth certificate can be changed, yet only after a waiting period so that any reasonable objections can be lodged by others (spouse, children, parents, employer?, etc.)

In the case of F2M, it is considered that the state may not ask for SRS (it is considered too invasive to ask for it...) - but! in any case a hysterectomy is required, so no Man will give birth to babies - as we had just had more recently.
Mastectomy is an option... if binding, doing nothing, or what ever will do. That is not as it seems any major issue. No man be likely to run about with really large breasts – is what the state will assume – I guess. And in any case you have to appear in court if you have no excuse... and the judge will have a good look at you to see "if you may pass"...

My new birth certificate is in the mail and as soon as I have it, and only then may I apply for a new passport, a new Personalausweis, change all names for credit cards, bank accounts, utility bills, driving license, and on and on.
Wish me luck, eh

And NO WAY to do ANY of it "with a penis" honey, - no way!

Axélle
PS: Germans don't take chances with those things... as they're not likely to take with plenty other things...

You know what the policy should be? They should ask you "Do you want an M or an F here?" and then that's what they should put. They should use top level, state of the art, biometrics, like serious business do  Seriously.

Quote from: dalebert on April 20, 2012, 11:03:47 AM
So F**KING arbitrary. You know what the policy should be? They should ask you "Do you want an M or an F here?" and then that's what they should put. Seriously.

What about those of us whose sex isn't M or F? Should we be forced to lie about who we are as many trans* & non-binary individuals currently are? I think it's important that we as a community be careful to avoid reinforcing a binary that is used to justify discrimination against us.

What they should do is ask "What do you want here?" If the point is to identify them them, then if makes sense to record their identity and presentation, rather than an obscure piece of anatomy which may or may not ever see the light of day.

You're right. But as long as we're forward-thinking about it, I would like to see gender stop being an issue at all in most things where it shouldn't even be relevant. Even better would be for them to leave it off the form instead of trying to come up with one-letter codes for the entire gender spectrum.

Quote from: dalebert on April 20, 2012, 11:03:47 AM
So F**KING arbitrary. You know what the policy should be? They should ask you "Do you want an M or an F here?" and then that's what they should put. Seriously.

Amen brother. I mean, who really gives a F$#@?! You are who you think and feel you are, end of story.