Ok, what's with all the terms? Which ones do people like or dislike? What's the difference?
I don't even know if I could list them all as there is one spelled neutrois or something. I actually like two-spirited but some native people consider this disrespectful. I have put genderqueer in several sentences which I enjoy more due to my great age and the existence of genderqueerchat on youtube (awesome channel).

I hope the math questions don't get too hard in the verifications. :-)


Any thoughts?

--Jay Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on April 27, 2012, 06:55:54 PM
Ok, what's with all the terms? Which ones do people like or dislike? What's the difference?
I don't even know if I could list them all as there is one spelled neutrois or something. I actually like two-spirited but some native people consider this disrespectful. I have put genderqueer in several sentences which I enjoy more due to my great age and the existence of genderqueerchat on youtube (awesome channel).

I hope the math questions don't get too hard in the verifications. :-)


Any thoughts?

--Jay Jay

Really the labels are there as a guide. You are who you are. Everyone is a unique and beautiful person and no label will ever tell our story.

That being said. I find it an AMAZING comfort that there are enough other people that share an experience similar to mine that someone made up a word to describe it. To many people it can give a sense of belonging.

When I first heard the term "androgyne" and learned the definition, I thought, "Wow! That's exactly what I've been all these years and had no way to say it."

Some folks feel better not accepting any of the labels. That's OK too.

Don't pay too much attention to the verifications (if by that you mean those inane quizzes that purport to tell you what you are). They are not scientifically verified or medically accepted. They also, are just a guide. Please, please, please totally ignore what they say unless you are sure it fits exactly.

I think a big reason there are so many terms is because there are lots of people trying describe the same sorts of things from different angles and not talking to each other - so they all create their own personal terminology. It gets even more confusing when you realise that no two people seem to have the exact same definition for those terms.

I would never put too much into terms and labels. They seldom fit, the definitions can be poor and they can create silly arguments. In the announcement section there are a list of acceptable terms etc. But as a rule of thumb just be respectful of what people wish to call themselves. There is nothing to be gained over arguments that a person is more or less something than another. Last time I looked we are all people.

Threads and arguments about terms tend to be closed down very quickly as they serve no use and become insulting.

Cindy

Hmm, I guess I feel most like Pica Pica on this one. I don't think I meant this question to be as serious as it might have sounded. But I do so hate a smiley face after everything. :-)
I am glad there are words to describe us, as I find this sort of affirming. I don't care for some of them, but I wouldn't argue about them. I'm a more live and let live sort, I think.

--Jay jay

I don't like many of them, too confrontational.

Same here; I am not me just to make a political statement (as much as some conservatives frustrate me).

The other thing is I don't feel any of them quite represents me, but several are a 70% match.  The devil's in the details.

The third thing is, I'm facing the fact that I don't really have it worked out so clearly anyway.  My gender identity is a vague cloud with a few slightly less wispy spots and some things that either shift or maybe it's just perspective that's shifting... and there I was trying to decide whether to call it a sphere or a cube.

Quote from: foosnark on April 30, 2012, 09:53:43 AM
I'm facing the fact that I don't really have it worked out so clearly anyway.  My gender identity is a vague cloud with a few slightly less wispy spots and some things that either shift or maybe it's just perspective that's shifting... and there I was trying to decide whether to call it a sphere or a cube.

True that.

Funny how, now that I've joined this group and allowed myself to act and feel like a woman when I want, I've started to feel manly more of the time. Like now that I no longer pine for my female side I can start appreciating some of the benefits of being male. It comes in handy to have muscles, for example. I never had them before - skinny most of my life, only got into weight lifting a couple years ago - and it's nice to be able to heft heavy stuff. Also in my classroom, being able to produce a booming deep voice when I want has its advantages.

So then I was wondering maybe I just needed to get this female stuff out of my system. Then I was watching the movie "He's just not that into you", the scene at the end where Ben Affleck finally proposes to Jennifer Anniston and tears were streaming down my face.

Nope. The girl's still in there.

As much as I really don't like the political implications (at least all the time-- not being a political creature constantly), nor do I want to pick a fight, I can't say that the term androgyny ever helped me come to terms with my own gender ID. After all, I have known of this whole concept my whole life. But what I knew was this:

Androgyny has a sort of general understanding of "appearing" both male and female (or neither male nor female), not necessarily *being* both (or neither). Maybe that is a misunderstanding with the term-- but if you asked most people what it was I think that is what they would think.

I don't have any conclusion on the whole thing though. :-)
--Jay Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on April 30, 2012, 09:38:56 PM
Androgyny has a sort of general understanding of "appearing" both male and female (or neither male nor female), not necessarily *being* both (or neither). Maybe that is a misunderstanding with the term-- but if you asked most people what it was I think that is what they would think.

Yeah, androgyny is a presentation, androgyne is a gender.

I tend to think of terms/labels as a shorthand for a proper explanation/description of our experience of ourselves. And then, since almost inevitably, we end up having the explain what we mean by the term we've just used, we might just as well cut out the middle-being and just go with a description . As has already been pointed out, it's asking for trouble to assume that any two people mean the same thing by the same term (or that they mean different things by different terms!)

They're to be played with, not taken too seriously (says she who labels herself Womandrogyne ).

When I was first exploring my gender identity, I was really happy with all those labels. I mean, for years I felt I was neither male nor female, but I just couldn't explain or understand it, because I didn't know how to call it! So when I found out that there were names for it, and labels, it really helped me a lot. I found it helpful to look up information, to find people with similar experiences and read their stories, I felt I wasn't the only one or the weird one...

And I first identified as neutrois. But later on I didn't really find it a 100% fit (and I can barely pronounce it XD), so I now go by FtM andyogyn, because I feel androgyn (which means neither male or female to me) but I want to transition towards a more male body (breasts removed, lower voice), but then again I don't want to be a guy 100% because I don't want male genitals and I am waiting for a "gender X" option on ID cards in the Netherlands too. So at this moment the label ftm androgyn is also not a 100% fit, but still I am comfortable with that one and I feel that labels are more like guidlines anyways.

Gender labels are an artificial way of explaining yourself to others and yourself.
Being yourself eliminates the facade, the charade, the counterfeit gender that labels can imply.

Being yourself is none of these.
In being your true self, in being who you are,
Your gender becomes self apparent.
It becomes apparent to those who care about you.
Be yourself, not a label.

Labels are helpful as a starting point, though. I'm a much more complicated thing than pansexual, genderqueer, or boy could imply, but giving my interlocutor a point of reference to start from means that then they can follow what I have to say when I talk about having a girlhood, for instance, or what I think of modern, white, American views on masculinity.

That point of reference puts you coming from a particular term that is not correct, though may be close to what you are referring to. If you make this clear to who you are talking to, it can be helpful, but it will also put a picture int their head that you may have to explain why it is incorrect in the future. Or worse yet, to many pictures that do nothing but conflict and confuse. Practice talking about yourself and not using partially or incorrect terms as a easy means of communication.

People can easily pick up on who you are without terms that do not correctly gender you. They'll have an easier time and so will you in the long run. It's hard to stay away from using labels and terms, though. Sometimes a necessary evil, for those who need specific terms or labels to understand anything.

Ativan

Quote from: VelvetBat on May 04, 2012, 02:10:32 PM
When I was first exploring my gender identity, I was really happy with all those labels. I mean, for years I felt I was neither male nor female, but I just couldn't explain or understand it, because I didn't know how to call it! So when I found out that there were names for it, and labels, it really helped me a lot. I found it helpful to look up information, to find people with similar experiences and read their stories, I felt I wasn't the only one or the weird one...

Velvet Bat (!), wow that's interesting. I'd love to hear the story for that! Anyway, I find this is true. At first, which was maybe a week ago :-), they were useful as I didn't have a word or concept or anything. But I think as time goes on, the terms are less useful.


--Jay Jay (hey I have arrived, no security questions!)

Personally, I would much rather pick a label that can actually come close to describing myself and use it as a starting point to explain than to have someone else label me with something that does not fit at all and refuse to listen to anything I have to say.