For me there's 3 types of clothing, male's clothes, female's clothes and unisex.
Maybe I still do not understand that whole non-binary transintergender or whatever you call it, but I think that this sounds way too complex for what it is.
If I understand this correctly, non-binary is basically between the male-female thingie, which would be what unisex is or something. It doesn't even have to be a piece of clothing that's tagged as unisex. I have ''binary'' clothes but I still look ''non-binary'' (I guess?) because of how I mix them and how I look.
It doesn't really matter, it's the final result that counts.

Quote from: Oriole on May 18, 2012, 12:33:45 PM
If I understand this correctly, non-binary is basically between the male-female thingie,

I wouldn't use the word "between". Non-binary means not totally male and not totally female. Some people switch back and forth, some people feel genderless or a member of a third gender that is neither male nor female. I feel like I have parts of my personality that are distinctly male and parts that are decidedly female.

For me, dressing androgynously (which I don't ... yet) would mean wearing clothing that lets me express both my male and female parts. A tall order, but some of the items on the websites they posted piqued my interest.

Quote from: Oriole on May 18, 2012, 12:33:45 PM
For me there's 3 types of clothing, male's clothes, female's clothes and unisex.
Maybe I still do not understand that whole non-binary transintergender or whatever you call it, but I think that this sounds way too complex for what it is.
If I understand this correctly, non-binary is basically between the male-female thingie, which would be what unisex is or something. It doesn't even have to be a piece of clothing that's tagged as unisex. I have ''binary'' clothes but I still look ''non-binary'' (I guess?) because of how I mix them and how I look.
It doesn't really matter, it's the final result that counts.

Correct. Unisex is marketed as a genderless fashion statement. That's OK. I use some that I like.
The combinations of gendered clothes is a real treat, to find what makes you feel non-binary, as opposed to androgynous.
It's not as complex as it is subtle, i think.

I don't view non-binary as a place between genders, but as a place that parallels that middle ground for binaries.
Subtle, yet complex, do to the cross overs that can and do occur.
We are not something in between.
We are people who have a separate identity from a binary spectrum.
We have our own spectrum that doesn't have ends (or destinations) to it.
Not the same, different. Despite the parallels.
It's those parallels that we share at times and they share with us.
Not an Us vs Them, simply Us and Them. Subtle, yet there.

It does matter, as the final result should be you.
Another thread here asks the question of why are we so special (something like that).
That it does matter, is why you are special. That final result. You are special.

Ativan

Quote from: Ativan on May 18, 2012, 12:28:00 PM
I think this topic should be moved to:

Androgynous Expression, Appearance and Style
for discussion of Androgynous Expression, Appearance, Fashion and Style.

It's a good thread, better served there, if the Mods agree?
Some interesting posts, points of view.

Ativan

OK, I've moved it.

Z

Quote from: agfrommd on May 18, 2012, 12:58:46 PM
Some people switch back and forth,

Good point of my speculation of a parallel spectrum.
Although I really haven't a clue, some Bigenders seem to hint at the cross overs that I think are there.
I think it is very much a part of them. Subtle compexities of Trans* People.
This is important. It's a part of the Us and Them that is undeniable. It's why we are Trans*.
(correct me if I'm wrong, like I said, I haven't a clue.)

Ativan

Quote from: Zythyra on May 18, 2012, 01:18:55 PM
OK, I've moved it.

Z

Thanks Z!

Ativan

Quote from: agfrommd on May 18, 2012, 12:58:46 PM
For me, dressing androgynously (which I don't ... yet) would mean wearing clothing that lets me express both my male and female parts. A tall order, but some of the items on the websites they posted piqued my interest.

I agree with this.  Also non-binary is an expression of certain amounts of masculine and feminine.  There is a part of me that is feminine that wants to express itself in fashion and the masculine part of me wants to express itself in fashion too.

I don't understand why the outside can't express the inside in fashion?

Unisex I think is used for sorting purposes more than anything else.  A t-shirt can be unisex but that doesn't say much about the wearer of the shirt.

I still think that it is in-between because you cannot be ''genderless'', because in order you would have to be perfectly neutral about everything. You would basically have no personality.
Everybody possess male and female qualities but I think that the people who consider themselves non-binary feel like they are close to the 50-50, which is fine.

What I kind of have a problem with, and I am sorry if I offend anyone, is about all the non-binary genders that exist. I've read a little about them and they're basically all the same with barely any differences, as if people were trying to invent new categories to put themselves in, in order to feel special or something.

As for the clothes, I also found out that child-like clothings work very well for androgynous people. Since children aren't hyper-sexualized, their clothes tend to be more neutral. I'm not saying to go shop in the child section, or maybe it doesn't work well with everyone but I think that it works okay with the way I personally present myself and I stick to that instead of trying special shops on the net or something.
Like this for example:
http://i45.tinypic.com/1zx2v5x.png
Simple shape (Rectangular), slim and flat on the chest area works best in my opinion.

There are many ways to look non-binary and I think we each have to find our own.

Quote from: Oriole on May 18, 2012, 04:31:54 PM
I still think that it is in-between because you cannot be ''genderless'', because in order you would have to be perfectly neutral about everything. You would basically have no personality.

Oriole there is a category that is agender.  This is the group of people who do not identify with a particular gender.  Here is a wiki link for the definition http://www.asexuality.org/wiki/index.php?title=Agender

Quote from: Oriole on May 18, 2012, 04:31:54 PM
What I kind of have a problem with, and I am sorry if I offend anyone, is about all the non-binary genders that exist. I've read a little about them and they're basically all the same with barely any differences, as if people were trying to invent new categories to put themselves in, in order to feel special or something.

I think that everyone identifies with a specific gender, or none in the case of agendered people.  Here is an excellent explanation of what non-binary gender:

QuoteNon-Binary Genders are gender identities that don't fit within the accepted binary of male and female. People can feel they are both, neither, or some mixture thereof. It might be easier to view gender as a 1-dimensional spectrum with male on one end, female on the other, and androgyne in the middle- but the reality is that gender is more complex, and 3-dimensional models with axes for male, female, and how strongly you feel attached to that gender identity have been suggested.

The emphasis is on the last part of how strongly a person identifies with a specific gender identity.

Quote from: Oriole on May 18, 2012, 04:31:54 PM
There are many ways to look non-binary and I think we each have to find our own.

Agreed

You can identify yourself as agender if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you still have qualities of both males and females. Even if you could, could you describe to me in details what that would imply other than self-identification?

Yes it changes the fact.  Sorry I am not agender so I cannot answer your question.

You do not need to be agender to answer my question.
If you say that it changes the ''fact'', you need to show me some evidences that are behind your belief and not close the discussion with a ''This is this and that is that''.

Quote from: Oriole on May 18, 2012, 06:01:43 PM
You do not need to be agender to answer my question.

Okay, I'll take a crack. I'm not generally agender, but I do feel that way from time to time. I'll only speak from my own experience.

You asked what it means to feel agendered, right?

It's NOT that I don't feel the presence of gender. It's that I KNOW it's not there. I know that whatever other people seem to be experiencing as gender, I don't have it. I was born without it.

It's a kind of certainty (in my case misplaced, because it usually doesn't last long) that I am not experiencing what the rest of the world is when they refer to gender.

Does this help?

Not really. Then agender would not be anything else than a ''feeling''. Even though you KNOW that it is not there, you probably have male and female traits even if you don't think about genders like most people do.

It's difficult to explain it in terms of non-binary, when the language we use is based on binary.
There is great difficulty in explaining any non-binary 'type', when terms used can only be from a binary perspective.
Which is the language. There aren't any definitions or labels or terms or descriptions that are not based on binary language.
There are in other languages and cultures that do have these built into their languages.
Unfortunately, the English language, especially US English is binary based.
Define yourself without using binary terms....
I'm not asking you to, but rather, to think about it.
The technicalities of explaining anything non-binary is difficult at best, nearly impossible in some cases.
We all have this same problem with communicating among ourselves.
LOL, it is central to most discussions here.

Ativan

I'll think about this a little more, but I still do not believe that it makes any sense.

It does, it will, it's a little abstract, more so at first.

I have patience and faith in you, that it will come together.

Ativan

Doesn't anybody else wander around a shop in a daze and then go 'I like that'...because that's how I shop.

Quote from: Pica Pica on May 19, 2012, 08:55:10 AM
Doesn't anybody else wander around a shop in a daze and then go 'I like that'...because that's how I shop.

I wish.

My reaction to shopping is the most male part of my personality. I want to get in, out, and on with my life.

I'd make a really lousy MtF.

BTW, love the new pic.

That's what the daze is for, to make the tedium part of it easier to deal with.

I don't shop often, I've had the shirt in the picture for nearly a decade, but when I do, I try on focus on what I like and leave semiotics to other people. It may help that I don't rate clothes very highly.

Thanks for the comment bytheway, I was just impressed with the height of my hair this morning and had to take a photie.