Quote from: Brooke777 on May 24, 2012, 12:41:21 PM
Being a Christian is to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. If you believe in him as your Lord and Savior then you are a Christian. Many of the OT rules have been deemed no longer applicable by God. Follow the NT. Try reading the book of Romans. Jesus teaches us to love everyone, and to accept everyone. Since He is the Son of God, then you should follow His teachings. He came here to save everyone. Not just the Isrealites whom God gave the rules in the oT to.

I think Brooke's answer is very good. I am a devout Christian. I cannot explain away the scriptures that people apply to gender identity. This is what I did.

• I didn't disregard the Bible, but tried to put things into context accepting that my understanding of the Bible and God was limited, but I didn't want that to stand in the way of more important matters.
  
  When I accepted myself, and began transitioning, I discovered that I had been very traumatized as a child growing up and that it wasn't gender identity but identity of myself that I was transitioning. You never know who you really are until you sometimes take dramatic steps.
  
  This has allowed a lot of healing to take place.
  
  This did not happen before because I could never be genuine with myself and subsequently with Jesus.
  
  Because I am able to better understand myself I can be genuine and honest.
  
  My walk is closer with Jesus now because of the healing that has occurred.
  
  I may or may not be right, but I am willing to take responsibility for my actions in front of God because I am doing the best I can with the life I was given.

Testosterone is a drug? What about FTM is that any different? Or are you saying that having the wrong hormone in my body is the drug thats affecting me?

Quote from: ShawnTOShawnna on May 25, 2012, 02:21:49 PM
Testosterone is a drug? What about FTM is that any different? Or are you saying that having the wrong hormone in my body is the drug thats affecting me?

DING DING DING  we have a WINNER

I am a christian transman.  And, whoever wants to argue what parts of the Bible are wrong or right...is just picking and choosing what they want to believe.  Putting away the parts that don't adhere to their life.  I do take the Bible literally and I also prayed for many years before making my transition.  Who am I?  This is what God's word tells me.  Anyone wants to argue the point...then your fight is with God...not me.
I am a child of God
I am loved by God, unconditionally.
I am strong, knowing that I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
I have the spirit of power, of love and of a sound mind.
I am peaceful, knowing that God provides for all my needs.
I am content, knowing that nothing comes into my life that first, doesn't pass through my Savior's hands.
I am joyful, knowing that nothing can pluck me out of God's hands.
I am blessed, knowing that God never fails.  His ways are higher and better than mine.
I am the righteousness of God through Christ Jesus.
I am worthy.  God chose me before the foundation of the earth.
I am healthy.  By Christ's stripes I am healed.
I am hopeful.  Knowing that God has a good plan and purpose for my life.
I am an heir and joint heir with Christ.
I am bought with a price and beloved.
I am indwelled by the Holy Spirit.  The same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead. 
I am fearless, knowing that God is my light, my shield, my protector.  Who can be against me?
I am forgiven.  Through the precious blood of Christ.....I am whiter than snow.
I am an overcomer.   Christ has already overcome the world.
I am victorious.  Greater is He who lives in me, than he who lives in the world.
I am thankful.  Knowing I have a home.  Waiting for me. 

I am, loved, strong, peaceful, content, joyful, blessed, worthy, healthy, an heir, fearless, forgiven, an overcomer, victorious, thankful, indwelled by the Holy Spirit,
I AM A CHILD OF GOD!
Thank You Lord, for loving me so. 

Quote from: ShawnTOShawnna on May 25, 2012, 02:21:49 PM
Testosterone is a drug? What about FTM is that any different? Or are you saying that having the wrong hormone in my body is the drug thats affecting me?

Between your 4-6 week of gestation one or all of the following things happen in some areas of your brain, specifically the basal nucleus of the stria terminalis (BNST), and they were: deficient or absent Aromatase protein, deficient estrogen and/or estrogen receptors, and/or low or absent level of testosterone and/or estrogen, and or presence of xenoestrogens. The consequence of this genetic disregulations is that certain areas of your embryonic brain failed or were only partially masculinized. One of this area is the are responsible for or in charge of defining your gender.

As someone who has discovered that, technically, I am Jewish through my mothers side of the family, and disregarding the fact that I have no need of belief in anything supernatural I must respectfully request that Christians please stick to their own scripture and leave the Torah alone. 

Trying to co-opt the Jewish books is effectively another attempt to erase the Jews from history. 

Karen.

I come from a Jewish family, justmeinoz. I am the third christian in my family. My grandfather being the first.

Most of my Hebrew Scripture were taught to me are Jewish scholars and Rabbi. Everything that i stated concerning the Hebrew Scripture was stated and taught to me by Rabbi of many backgrounds. Even at my seminary. Even todays Rabbi will tell you its impossible to follow every law and they too focus on Deuteronomy "love your neighbor love your God"

So when i talk of the Hebrew text i talk based on my upbringing in te jewish heritage plus my education under many rabbi. And i disagree fully that discussing new testament and hebrew scripture erases Jewish history

Hi again Annah, i introduced myself in the introductions thread, even posted a few pictures of what I look like currently (last one was a few years ago)

Ok well now someone just presented this argument to me on a christian forum.

QuoteIt is very clear we are not to have sex until we marry. Homosexuals are people who chose to have sex before they married

I would argue with them that even straight people do this. However as a Christian  I have also always been taught this. I did in fact have sex before marriage even after becoming a Christian, and felt guilty about it later. I would also have to think there are some gay unions that choose to wait until they have had some sort of bond, even if it cant be legal.

Here is another issue I have been wrestling with. Back in 2001 I was running away from the law for some thefts of checks, cause of my intense gambling problem at the time. I had went to jail already was out on probation and then skipped probation for a month and went to Vegas. During this time I had also been starting to 1st chat with transgender chat rooms (even before this event a while back ago, it was not the 1st time I remember now). Anyways near the last part of Janurary of 2001 I had been staying at a room with other people in the house. I had this intense dream one night unlike any other dream I had before. It was booming and loud like thunder, shaking my very core, a very intense bright being of light changed shape before my eyes, sometimes appearing like a dove, often appearing as energy in a constant shifting form. Then a voice spoke to me and simply said "I know who you are, you are Shawn *and said my last name also*"

The rumbling and thunder accompanied the voice. I woke up trembling and visibly shaken. I was shocked and amazed, I immediately realized it was God. Was he telling me not to change my name (which I had planned to do along with my gender at the time, well i should say begin the idea by going to counseling) was he telling me not to run away from my probation and Go back? Or was he telling me to not change my gender. After this i called my mom, my lawyer and told them how I was feeling and why I ran away from the probation place they had me staying at.

After this they all told me to come back. I went back to California, to the judge with my lawyer we both explained what was happening. The judge took pity on me and sent me to go to another place that offered counseling and housing and I was in all essence free again as a citizen but just under probation. I have since paid my debt to society for the thefts of checks. I have been off probation for a while.

I then went to counseling there spoke about my problems and then later buried the issue of gender after a time but still kept going to counseling , just not a gender therapist anymore.  Ok so Today now 11 years later and I am still dealing with this issue. Was the dream just a dream like some will say, was it just my subconscious? I have had dreams about things I was worried about before that were on my subconscious and they were never anything like that.


I should say that while I was in Jail I had 2 other dreams, one dream was of me being chained to a a tree or a wall, chained up by my hands, all around me was dead trees in  a field of light/grey/purple goo and people rising from the goo moaning and crying and in pain. I then saw a chalice of gold and jewels come before me filled with blood, it splashed on me cutting my chains as it did. I woke up feeling free and light.

The 2nd dream that followed was close in time to this. I dreamt I was in an office sky scraper building very high up. In the center was myself on the floor either sitting or kneeling. I was surrounded by 12 people dressed in Royal and Elegant Golden and Jewel Encrusted Garments. They all began splashing water on me a chalice they each held in there hand. Were these angels or the 12 disciples maybe? I then saw Jesus smiling at me warmly and lovingly out the window of the room in the sky, his hair blowing as if it were window. I just saw his face larger than life though not his entire body.

All these dreams were so different than any other I had ever in my life. I understand the 1st 2 dreams and came to accept the 3rd dream telling me my name to mean deal with all of the things and just be "Shawn"

So you see I'd like to understand more about the 3rd dream. What was God warning me about exactly? What do you all think?

Concerning Sex before marriage:

First of all, if it is your conviction to have sex before marriage then stick to your conviction.

What bothers me (and this isn't against you) are the people who will use the Bible and then say "The Bible is clear that it is against premarital sex."

1. The Bible isn't clear about premarital sex. It doesn't talk against it nor does it talk for it. However:

2. Many, many, many notable people in the Bible had premarital sex many times before they were "married." Many of these people were noted to be of good and godly character. And some of them even have a book named after them in the Bible.

Adam and Eve were not married. Matter of fact, many Jewish text tells that Eve was not even Adam's first lover. That would have been Lilith.

Hagar had sex with Abraham. She was never married. She gave birth to Ishmael, the father of the Arabic nations.
Jacob had sex before he was married.
Joseph had sex before he was married.
Moses had a divorced and remarried.
Tamar had sex before marriage
Judah had sex before marriage
Rahab, the Great (6) Grandmother of David, had sex LOTSA times (she was a prostitute)
Ruth had sex with Boaz on the wheat floor (she even gave him oral sex) before they were married. Rth was so greatly blessed by sleeping with Boaz that she was the grandmother of King David.
David had sex with Bathsheba before they were married.
Solomon loved premarital sex so much, he wrote the Song of Solomon (which talks about infatuation, love, sex, .....and THEN marriage).

These are just examples on the top of my head. I am sure if I researched the subject more, I will probably find at least three dozen others.

So when Christians say "it is clear we are not to have sex until we marry" then I would ask for their sources. I would presuppose "it is clear" meaning "this is what I heard my pastor or other people say." I usually go to the sources. Same with gay marriage. Some Christians say "it is clear that the Bible says about marriage" and then try to make it sound like this beautiful God Ordained union between a man and woman who are in love.

Marriages in the Bible are NOTHING like that.

2. About your dreams

Dreams are tricky things. I can tell you how I view dreams. I view dreams to be your subconscious entering into a dream when you are sleeping. It doesn't necessarily mean the Holy Spirit is trying to tell you something (although it could). But I'm neutral about dreams. I do not know remotely enough about dreams to tell you if its your own consciousness or God.

Hmm ok a verse I would like to understand better

Quote1 Corinthians 7:2 "But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband."

I believe in having a relationship before God with 1 person. never ever to cheat on that person and commit adultery. I do believe in a union between people that the law should recognize and that God would bless.

From a psychological point of view, dreams happen during REM sleep.  Essentially when you dream, your brain is organizing everything from the previous waking period, and putting it into the "correct" part of the brain, sometimes these thoughts and memories find their way into the part of your brain you use to actively process information during waking periods.  When that happens, they appear as a dream.  I have explained this in extremely basic terms.  It is much more complicated than this in reality.

Quote from: ShawnTOShawnna on May 26, 2012, 05:21:24 PM
Hmm ok a verse I would like to understand better

I believe in having a relationship before God with 1 person. never ever to cheat on that person and commit adultery. I do believe in a union between people that the law should recognize and that God would bless.

that talks about marriage. Not sex. That verse talks about the pitfalls that could arise in a once polygamous culture.

Quote from: Brooke777 on May 26, 2012, 05:25:07 PM
From a psychological point of view, dreams happen during REM sleep.  Essentially when you dream, your brain is organizing everything from the previous waking period, and putting it into the "correct" part of the brain, sometimes these thoughts and memories find their way into the part of your brain you use to actively process information during waking periods.  When that happens, they appear as a dream.  I have explained this in extremely basic terms.  It is much more complicated than this in reality.

ah the Brain / mind is defragmenting my thoughts

Quote from: Brooke777 on May 26, 2012, 05:25:07 PM
From a psychological point of view, dreams happen during REM sleep.  Essentially when you dream, your brain is organizing everything from the previous waking period, and putting it into the "correct" part of the brain, sometimes these thoughts and memories find their way into the part of your brain you use to actively process information during waking periods.  When that happens, they appear as a dream.  I have explained this in extremely basic terms.  It is much more complicated than this in reality.

I'm not religious but yeah, isn't someone thinks a ton about what a god wants pretty much gauranteed to have a dream where a god "tells" them something eventually?

Life here on earth is but a dream of the true spiritual world from whence we came and to where we will return

Strictly from a psychological point of view, yes.  If you constantly think about what God wants you to do, then you will have a dream with God in it.

Quote from: Carbon on May 26, 2012, 05:44:23 PM
I'm not religious but yeah, isn't someone thinks a ton about what a god wants pretty much gauranteed to have a dream where a god "tells" them something eventually?

Except I wasant thinnking about God at all during that time, I was not seeing or reading or listening to anything about God. I had never seen nor heard anything in my past nor on television that even remotely resembled my dreams. I have never ever been spoken to in my dreams at the decible of sounding like tons of thunder going off.

Quote from: Amazon D on May 26, 2012, 05:48:36 PM
Life here on earth is but a dream of the true spiritual world from whence we came and to where we will return

I truly wish others could feel that the spirit world was real, i know that its real too. Yes we all have variations on the theme, but its still real.

Quote from: ShawnTOShawnna on May 26, 2012, 06:56:31 PM
Except I wasant thinnking about God at all during that time, I was not seeing or reading or listening to anything about God. I had never seen nor heard anything in my past nor on television that even remotely resembled my dreams. I have never ever been spoken to in my dreams at the decible of sounding like tons of thunder going off.

You give the impression of someone who thinks about God/Christianity pretty much every day. And you don't have to be consciously thinking about it THAT day, even though it helps. I mean I once had a dream that involved me correcting some spelling mistakes in a paper that I had missed when I was awake, so you never know what's going on in your subconscious mind.

If you're not the kind of person who thinks about God/Christianity pretty much every day I kind of have to question why every topic you start here has something to do with Christianity. It seems like a Big Deal to you. The two possibilities are basically that you are hyper religious or that this is some kind covert proselytizing like Annah said. One of my rules is to assume the best possible motivations or intentions behind things that I can (there are too many situations where the best is still really bad for me to want to add on to them), so I am going with you being really religious.

QuoteThe two possibilities are basically that you are hyper religious or that this is some kind covert proselytizing like Annah said.

1. Sorry Not hyper Religious, Simply Spiritual
2. covert proselytizing : Eh I know what covert means I had to look up proselytizing on google , Sorry that is not me either

The 3rd option is that I am trying to figure out a few things so I can be content and happy knowing I am not alone in my situation. That there is some ray of hope in all of this and that I can have answers for myself. I don't expect anyone else to believe like I do, instead I will show them love and kindness and hope that they would like to. But this is about me and my journey, I am seeking answers from many many places, praying about it. And Yes I will be attending counseling soon and try to see what I can discover in a clinical session as well. Try to put humpty dumpty back together again and hope I am able to stay up on the wall this time.