Ok well after watching Dr. Oz on oprah's program talk about the gay gene being found in mice and that is also in people. I wonder why someone would all of the sudden be sexually attracted to that which they were not attracted to before due to hormones. One person in chat said that they were attracted to women but after all the years of hrt they then found themselves wanting a man. To clarify this person is mtf

I am also attracted to women. I do not see myself wanting to be with a male having relations with them in that way.

So what exactly is going on here? Is there a gay gene then for sure? If so can that gene be altered by hormones? If a person is ftm and then still likes guys doesn't that make them a gay guy also? a mtf likes women and then still dates women doesn't this also say lesbian? Of course i know there's bisexual. You can be bisexual, have a sex change, and then still be bisexual, so orientation doesn't change for them.

 I don't know if there is or isn't a gay gene. However, I have experienced becoming bi where I once found myself repulsed by men... and I have had friends who ended up liking guys, and lost interest in women (or vice versa).

I don't know how, or why, but it does happen. If there is a gay gene, it is not altered by hormones - that is impossible. Perhaps sexual orientation is just (or mostly) a bunch of noodles in your head, and because hormones can play with those noodles, it can affect your orientation.

Quote from: ShawnTOShawnna on May 28, 2012, 06:31:04 PM
Ok well after watching Dr. Oz on oprah's program talk about the gay gene being found in mice and that is also in people. I wonder why someone would all of the sudden be sexually attracted to that which they were not attracted to before due to hormones. One person in chat said that they were attracted to women but after all the years of hrt they then found themselves wanting a man. To clarify this person is mtf

I am also attracted to women. I do not see myself wanting to be with a male having relations with them in that way.

So what exactly is going on here?

It's not really that simple. It's not that there is a "gay gene" in mice, it's that animals aren't as complex to decode and that it's possible to do things such as switch sexual preference of a creature that has to inherently know what they want because they don't actually have complex inner thoughts about themselves and what they want.

Humans are simply more complex than the sum of their parts, so I tend to dismiss the applications of findings like this. It's not even that I'm putting us on a pedestal. What they did was pretty much remove a gene that caused a female mouse to grow up with certain male traits. AKA, They honestly created a ftm mouse >_________>

As for changing due to hormones, it's wishy, Most of it is "Your results may vary" because your brain will interrupt things differently than others. You very well could find your preferences in partners change over time due to the influence of things beyond hrt like the way you view yourself and how others view you. That's you changing as a human, sometimes your born gay/straight, sometimes someone comes along and you love them beyond their gender, and sometimes someone just changes their mind x3

Lest how I see it.

well if orientation is just in my brain, and people see me now as being heterosexual male and I have up until now seen this as what I was, isn't hormones still changing your orientation still scary? People take pride in their orientation and let the world know. But if hormones can still change it, that sort of blows my mind still.

Genes are more inclinations towards something, except in some clear cut things (hair color or eye color for instance). Otherwise there is environment, opportunity (I don't meant this in some kind of silly way), society, etc. For example, schizophrenia is highly genetically determined, but identical twins will not necessarily both get it, it is more like 60%. This is the case with a lot of other things and must also be true for being gay.

I have also heard that hrt can switch your orientation. Perhaps there is a chemistry component in there.

--Jay Jay

I am pansexual, and I was so before start HRT last June. Prior to starting HRT, I found women more attractive than androgynous persons, and androgynous persons more attractive than men.

About 2 months into HRT I was dead-center on the Kinsey scale finding many more people attractive than I had previously.

At about 6 months into HRT, I was drifting away from that and was finding women exclusively to be attractive.

Now, and nearly 1 year on HRT I'm finding that I'm pretty much back to my original starting point: pansexual with a preference for women, then androgynous persons, and then men.

So for me, hormones did have an affect on my sexual orientation. Who knows what will happen to me as time goes on.

Quote from: ShawnTOShawnna on May 28, 2012, 06:47:14 PM
isn't hormones still changing your orientation still scary?

For me it wasn't so much scary as illuminating.

Quote from: ShawnTOShawnna on May 28, 2012, 06:47:14 PM
People take pride in their orientation and let the world know.

I was never one for identity politics, but I'm not ashamed of who and what I am, either.

 I don't think it's very scary.... it is what it is. Sexual orientation doesn't mean something unless you belong to a conservative religious group, or are required to function near people who do; and even then, it is not very common for someone who was gay before transition to have their orientation change on them, and have them end up gay (with the other sex) after transition. It happens, but it's a lot more likely that you'll end up bi or straight - if you're gay already, it seems less likely to change, and if you're bi already... well, I haven't heard of someone who was bi changing their orientation on hormones.

I see it this way.  If we are attracted to one sex or the other, we may stay that way.  If you are attracted to women and you're MtF then you may just be a lesbian.  If you are FtM and attached to men, you may be gay.

However, with the right hormones run our bodies, our earlier sexuality may change.  You may find you are attracted to the opposite sex. 

Ether way if it is right for you, then it is right.  Let no one or no doctrine tell you different.

In my case, I am Bi.  I was what would be called "straight" in my past life.  And my thinking now is about the same.  A song come to mine, for me right now.

I can readily see hormones having an affect on your sexual orientation just as much as HRT changes how you view the world, yourself and your place within it. Many of us start our journeys in denial. We strive to be "normal", which of course means being straight. Any attraction towards a person of the same sex is immediately rejected and put out of mind. I suspect that many besides myself had gone through a phase of fantasizing about being a woman with a man. The reality of it is far different.

Once you actively begin transitioning there is a lot more than just hormones going to work on your brain, life itself is. A life far different than the one you are putting behind you. All sorts of burdens to be "Normal" no longer apply. You begin to feel more at ease just being you and start to actually enjoy being in your own skin. You start learning not to fight or reject these new feeling but to go with them as they will bring you even more joy. Part of these new feelings may just be how you begin to look at men (MTF case). Suddenly some become cute, attractive, intriguing, etc.. Perhaps you also start to realize that a percentage of your attraction to women was really envy and not lust. Sure you still look at women, admire some, maybe even attracted to their beauty, and then think "I wish I could pull that off" or to be like that.

I suspect transition has a lot more to do with changing your sexual orientation. HRT is just one small part of it. In fact many non-transitioning TSs are on a low dose HRT regime for the psychological benefits. While I am no expert on the numbers, I have never read or heard of accounts of these people's orientation changing. Sure, statistically it happens but I am sure at a much lower rate that those of who decide to fully transition.

Quote from: ShawnTOShawnna on May 28, 2012, 06:47:14 PM
well if orientation is just in my brain, and people see me now as being heterosexual male and I have up until now seen this as what I was, isn't hormones still changing your orientation still scary? People take pride in their orientation and let the world know. But if hormones can still change it, that sort of blows my mind still.

It is like the lottery, some of us change our orientation, other suffer no change, and yet other become bisexual. The Lord works in mysterious ways!

Everyone is different and there are several factors involved depending on a person's age and perception

I don't believe that hormones themselves can change a person's sexual orientation, but rather the use of hormones could possibly lead to a person opening new doors of perception that will help them to define within themselves what their sexual orientation is

One thing that can change your orientation is your sensitivity to pheromones.  I have read that quite a few women are more sensitive to male pheromones after they start hrt. 

FWIW...

Prior to hormones/transitioning, I did not [knowingly] find men attractive; women on the other hand, much so.  Gradually throughout hormones/transitioning, the opposite seems to have occurred.  Strange and confusing it may be -- but I certainly do not mind.

Ive always found both attractive, but was envious of girls, and not interested in having physical relations with a man as a man. then I went on aa's and lost all interest in sex but still admired pretty people, now im on hrt I think im getting a bit more interested in men than before.
Im guessing that if I wind up looking acceptably female then I might actually want something more physical too.

Okay, I don't want to upset anybody, but there is no good scientific evidence that non-heterosexual orientation is controlled by a gene.  I do not preclude a complex interaction between genes, but it has not been demonstrated.

It seems to me that sexual orientation is much more likely controlled by brain chemistry and environmental factors.

Separated identical twins studies more or less demolish the "gay gene" theory.

So, ask yourself, does the onset of HR effect brain chemistry?

Think about this:

If hormones could change your sexual orientation, then I would assume Christian and other "pray the gay away camps" as well as similar Therapy would have long utilized hormone treatment "to ungay" someone.

I believe when you start HRT (as well as transitioning period), you become more comfortable with who you are or explore new things you once never considered doing.

People try too hard to explain their sexual orientation or their transgender disposition over a gene. It's almost as if people are trying to find "a legitimate excuse" to explain who they are and also to come up with a medical standard that is less taboo as a medical issue.

It's one of the reasons why I find "For the Bible Tells me so" to be mildly irritating. Many people see the video as a pro gay video to present to a questioning church. In my opinion, the video tries to create "excuses" to get the church to love LGBT rather than just loving and accepting who they are period.

Quote from: Jamie D on May 29, 2012, 01:51:59 AM
Okay, I don't want to upset anybody, but there is no good scientific evidence that non-heterosexual orientation is controlled by a gene.  I do not preclude a complex interaction between genes, but it has not been demonstrated.

It seems to me that sexual orientation is much more likely controlled by brain chemistry and environmental factors.

Separated identical twins studies more or less demolish the "gay gene" theory.

So, ask yourself, does the onset of HR effect brain chemistry?

I agree with this.

I have always been interested in guys, never in girls. However pre-HRT I was borderline asexual. After about a week of HRT I started getting some sort of urge to stare at guys  and actually want in pursuing them. It's also pertinent to say that my goals in sexuality changed. I went from focusing on the physical aspect as being the primary stimulant for my sex drive, to having an emotional necessity to stimulate it. As we pretty much all know, estrogen does have an effect on the brain that spurs along a stronger emotional response.

I'm no physiologist or anything, but if I had to guess the brain has receptors in it that are linked to sexuality. Hormones may cause them to react and become interested in whatever sex, according to how your brain is wired to receive these hormones. An explanation as to why twins have different sexualities (in some cases) may have something to do with the different environmental factors (diet, exposure to toxins, etc) they live in, which may disturb any hormonal "balance" in the body.

Hormones do seem to change sexual orientation by very varying degrees. From zero change to a complete reversal, from what I've read. I'm not an expert at all, but it seems logical to me. After all, some studies do indicate that sexual orientation is related to hormones.

I'm not sure how widely accepted that was, but I remember reading about a study that said that whilst transgendered individuals seemed to be made more likely to appear by a surplus of cross-sex hormones in the womb at some stages of development, homosexuals seemed to be made more likely to appear by a surplus of same sex hormones at that time. In a very unscientific way, I could interpret it as (for born men) "transsexuals were made addicted to female hormones and thus strive for them; homosexuals were made addicted to a lot of male hormones and thus want more and more".

In the light of this apparent link between hormones and sexual orientation, no matter how good and widely accepted that precise hypothesis is, I think it's definitely not irrational to think that a change in sex hormone levels would affect sexual orientation.

Part of it could be a story of pheromones. I'm not an expert, but reproductively-wise, I find it evolutionarily advantageous that females would be more affected by male pheromones and vice versa. After all, there are more females than males who are attracted to males, and it's commonly regarded as normal, since sex is primarily for reproduction to begin with.

And hormones are the only way I see for the body to vehiculate this "react to X pheromone" message. So by taking estradiol, we would make ourselves more receptive to male pheromones, and less to female pheromones, which could, if there is a psychological predisposition of some sort, turn into a change in sexual orientation.

This raises a question: why does it change a lot in some, a little in others and not at all in the rest? Well, attraction, sexual as well as emotional, is only partly affected by pheromones. Even purely physical attraction is probably affected more by looks and behaviour than pheromones. So if someone already had a definite attraction for one gender or the other driven by another factor, a change in the perception of pheromones might be hardly noticeable.

It could also be a "side effect" of the psychological effects experienced on HRT (which also vary a lot). Quite a few report that the way they experience their emotions changed, that they don't interact with others the same way as before. An example might be someone who used to feel more aggressive with things, who would be a leader, and who began feeling more delicate, and who began to feel the need to be protected rather than the urge to protect. Well, that person might be more attracted to men due to the commonly spread idea we have of them as being strong, reliable, protective, etc. which is not all true but not all false either.

However, we can't put it all on the back of hormones. There might be people who were always attracted to men but, consciously or not, repressed this attraction, either through some sort of internalised homophobia or just because they weren't interested in seeing men as men (men-men relationships differ a lot from men-women relationships, right?) And then, when they got closer to living as women, and accepted their real self, "allowed themselves" or "rediscovered" that attraction... Or something.

Very well put A. Pheromones are only part of attraction. Some people are more affected by pheromones than others. Attraction is very much controlled by the neural pathways in the brain. Essentially, how the brain is "wired". From the research I have done, they have not found a link to any one, or two parts of the brain. I personally am not very affected by pheromones. My wife, very much so.