OK, this the MtF side but it easily would apply to FtM - maybe more so?

There are things we go through when we grow up, go through puberty, and for females born female (and NOT for MtFs) such things would be our first period, how to get on with it, later on loosing our virginity - becoming a woman, have our special day (white wedding?),  for most to get pregnant, giving birth...

NONE of these things are part of an MtF's life... maybe some lucky ladies have a wedding, brides maids, a groom, their special day. Married life, a husband.

For all these things, there be certain parallels in a male life, they will just not have happened to us.
In other words: What if ANY, are OUR rites of passage? Transition, HRT, SRS, FFS, BA?!? to give US our 'grounding' as grown-up women?
Trans-women, OH YES! Ordinary women? Not that I can see it - not for one moment.

The lack of these experiences (rites of passage), the "normal" ones for most female born female are what gives women a certain "grounding". A grounding in WHO they are. They are THIS... and nothing other, female. Period. Just normal women.

It is my contention that the lack of our female rites of passage is one of the main reasons for our almost insurmountable insecurities. Do I pass, will I pass, can I be stealth, what is my orientation post-op, HRT, etc.
By not having gone through those experiences we will always be outsiders of some kind, to the female side of our tribe.

Can we do anything about it? I don't think so. But you tell.

BTW, it is an accepted thing in Large Group Awareness Trainings (LGAT) that the lack of such "rites of passage" leaves modern males also pretty much "afloat" – emotionally. Leaving them with an equally lesser sense of maleness, leading to some of those silly overcompensations we so often see (well, I do).

If we are going through the wrong "rite" for our gender (brain sex) it is also of little help. I did some of just that... and see what happened. I transitioned, my inner self did not benefit in the end.
Yet... now we are emotionally in some kind of female Nowhere-Land. Maybe like a female teenager in early puberty?
It comes visiting in the wee hours, when we have no one to reflect back to us "yes we are a woman" and we feel ever so ordinary just ourself in some sort of gender vacuum. Our body does not seem to count for much in these moments...
I just bring this up in a spirit of sharing and, I'd be little surprised to be the only women sans 'rites of passage' that feels that way.

Thank you for your attention
Axélle

Everyone probably has different feelings about this, and rightly so since everyone has different experiences and perceptions.

All I can say is that I don't miss what I never had. The only rite of passage which mattered to me was the moment of self-realisation and the acceptance and understanding that no matter how hard it tried, the world didn't, and couldn't define who I am. That's something I can only, and did, do for myself.

That took most, if not all of the insecurity and doubt away.

Quote from: Sephirah on June 10, 2012, 01:52:49 PM
[clipped]

All I can say is that I don't miss what I never had.

[clipped]

If it was not for other female born female company I truly might not know?
But I DO know. Somehow I really do. Instinct? Imagination? Empathy? ...
It was a major issue with GID this 'knowing and missing' - of what I never had.

Lucky for who is not affected. Really.
Though having seen many a folks, male more then female, going through some 'processes' and the after effects also confirmed that I'm not AT ALL alone in this.
Question: why are so many cultures HAVING 'rites of passage"?
There IS a reason, and a rather powerful one in my personal experience.

Axélle

No doubt for a lot of people it's a very real feeling, and very distressing.

I just don't miss it because there's no point. It doesn't change anything. I learned a while ago to come to terms with things and move past them. It was the only way to break the stranglehold of dark feelings I had when I was younger.

I think some rites of passage (RoP) are "large", like menarche, losing virginity, first kill on a hunt, first car, etc...but most are "small", like a 5yo girl helping her mom bake a cake for the first time, or an 8yo boy helping his dad stack firewood. etc etc.

Go to school, playing with the other boys/girls, learning first-hand what is "boy" behaviors/attitudes, what is "girl" behaviors/attitudes, etc.

We Trans-people are certainly in a socially-handicapped position regarding this socialization...but, confidence and happiness go a long way to easing our path.

Most of our RoP are rooted in individual journey mileposts--first hormones, name change, first "girl clothing item" bought by ourselves, first time going en femme, etc.

Vive le Mileposts!!

I think the only common "Rite of Passage" we all share, is that moment when we truly believe that in spite of all the past obstacles that you take the first step towards change. From that point on you are embarked upon a personal journey. To define other milestones one must reach is to limit the possibilities any of us have in obtaining happiness and peace of mind.

As it is there is too much zealotry within our ranks. To say one must start HRT, have FFS, GRS, BA, tracheal shaves, voice training etc.  is to severely limit the definition of a legitimate MTF person.

For most of human kind, our lives will be filled with insecurities. Cis women have plenty. Some of those we share by virtue of also being women. Both Cis and MTF groups have unique insecurities. The spectrum of those insecurities are not shared by all within that group. Even passing is not requirement for some.

 The lack of rites of passage is just a symptom. I've spent enough tears on it, as there are bigger issues afoot, and frankly I'm too tired to care further than that for the moment. The solution will present itself, in time, so in the meantime ... I have to get through bad days such as these as best as I can.

I have given this some thought and I think that is way many girls go through the "dressing inappropriately".  50-somethings dressing like they are 20.  Short skirts, Go-go boots, low cut blouses. 

OK the last one is a must have.  Especially when you have the cleavage.  But we go through that phase because we never got a chance at the "Rites of Passage" our cis-sisters did.  We are playing catch up.

Quote from: Sephirah on June 10, 2012, 02:35:20 PM
No doubt for a lot of people it's a very real feeling, and very distressing.

I just don't miss it because there's no point. It doesn't change anything. I learned a while ago to come to terms with things and move past them. It was the only way to break the stranglehold of dark feelings I had when I was younger.

Now you're talking - I like it! Very grown-up, the sort of grown-up that is ever so good to have around, and ever so little to be had, or found...

Axélle

Transition and surgery is a right of passage...stop focusing on what you missed out on and accept what you have been through and let it ground you as female. The pain and indignity you go through on the operating table is you, giving birth to yourself and afterwards you'll bleed enough for a life time of periods (possibly more if like me you start heamorraging). You're virginity is yours to do what you will with, but don't throw it away to lightly.

Most of all you are a sterile XY woman, accept it and let that ground you because there's nothing wrong with it.

As ever, Gorgeous, an interesting post.

You OK BTW I need some way of keeping up with the people that I love.

I think the spelling in some ways defines your opinions. What is a right and what is a rite.

Until you can separate them the the discussion is difficult.

Not meaning to be a smart arse, both adjectives are true to us.

We were talking about this a bit this afternoon, and the two Lesbian friends I was with commented that there is a similar lack in the Les community.
We can just make our own up as we go along.
First womens clothes purchase, first time putting on makeup, first time out in public, first time out in public for a decent amount of time in daylight! Name change, starting HRT, FFs, laser starting, laser finishing, SRS.  The list can be endless.  Most of all coming out to yourself, and then the first time to another person.

Karen.

Quote from: Cindy James on June 11, 2012, 05:04:53 AM
As ever, Gorgeous, an interesting post.

You OK BTW I need some way of keeping up with the people that I love.

I think the spelling in some ways defines your opinions. What is a right and what is a rite.

Until you can separate them the the discussion is difficult.

Not meaning to be a smart arse, both adjectives are true to us.

Hee hee, i didn't notice the spelling mistake...interesting. I think the things I mentioned are both right and a rite of passage. I know a lot of people would disagree with me, but surgery changes you in ways you can't comprehend if you haven't been through it. Nothing changes yet everything changes. It's like looking at a jigsaw puzzle that's been put together all wrong, before transition it's all jumbled up and doesn't make sense and as you go through transition the pieces start to fall into place, and then finally you have surgery and as you recover from that finally you're able to see what was there all along but was previously all messed up. If that doesn't ground you then I don't know what will.

Also a life spent focused on the things you don't have will always be a dissapointment

There are many women who cannot give birth.

There are many women who are eternally single.

There are many women who, for one reason or another, do not participate in those various rites of passage.

I've spoken to many of these other women and they all seem to have the same yearnings as we.  They do what we do.  We pick up and move on.  We cannot dwell too long on those things we cannot have without madness ensuing.

I've been told by my older sister that first menarche was not anything to crow about.  Our mother simply started crying and saying she was too young and tossed her a pad.  She was 15.

We go through the same puberty, without menarche, as many teenagers.  We have the same emotional roller coaster.  We have the same attempts to dress attractively.  We have to learn how to accentuate ourselves through makeup without overdoing it.  We have our successes and failures.  It's just that for most of us, we do this at an age inappropriate time.  We are expected to hit the bricks running.  The first time we go out in public, we are expected to dress and act appropriately.  But when we fail, society does not chalk it up to simple pubescent maturation, but some darker sexual fetish.

We have our own rites though.  We have that first realization that we are women.  It is stunning and life changing.  We have that feeling of rightness when we finally do get it right and go out in public.  And that oddly normal feeling on some mornings after those long nights, when we dress as ourselves and the once magical feeling of *having* to put on a bra is just what we do.  Just as every other woman out there.  There are FTM parallels as well.

We feel ourselves as having re-crossed the river Styx.  We knocked the ferryman out and stole his boat and took back the money we had to give.

And on the way out, we pick up the hope we had to abandon, and hike out of Hades into sunlight.

-Sandy

We do get some of the female rights of passage.. maybe theyare comestic ones..

Starting to grow breasts, body fat reshaping to form a more female form
Wearing a bra for the first time, actually requiring one.
Getting your ears pierced
learning to apply makeup

For us.. getting SRS... (I still have not to get this one.).. hopefully next year

It's certainly not, or was not meant, to moan and groan about the lack or the differences, but to simply point out and make aware of this lack.
And interestingly enough as Karen pointed out there can be such a 'lack' in female-born-female circles. I had pointed out there was such a lack in MALE-born-male circles in current modern society. Absolutely no doubt about it with me.

A lot of 'little' things were mentioned like learning make-up, wearing a first bra, and such.
Well, to recall a "rite of passage" is quite some more then THAT, quite some.

The short word for it is ... Initiation. I did not want to used it, as folks are initiated into consulting firms and religious groups, etc. also. Though it is ALWAYS to LEARN UP FRONT! What from such a group is required - TO FIT IN and perform as seen fit.
The sex/gender type of initiation had practically always had some or other blood letting to go with it. And that is one FAR cry from fitting a bra, and putting on make-up, even SRS is sort of odd in this context.
UNLESS we accept it be the initiation into the group of post-op trans women...
Yet every sister and her aunty is trying ever so hard to pass and NOT hang out as TRANS* - yes?
So, a lot of the things mentioned are pretty much trans related due to the timing, when they came about, and the XY basis they are 'applied upon'.
Initiation is essentially a VERY physical thing that IN THE PROCESS gets 'under the skin'. It is ALWAYS powerful in context, that it will stay with the initiated for the rest of his or her life.
This just to re-focus from getting moved off into wearing our first garter-belt or panty hose. THAT... has little if anything to do with a "rite of passage" or an initiation IMHO.

The point is, that the LACK of it, leaves one with some sort of ... call it 'vacuum' that needs to be recognised and in some positive way filled. Lest we wind up un-initiated ~ females stuck in transition for ever and a day.

If such is our calling, as practically EVERY activist sees it, then no further awareness seems required. We trans* and that was/is it.
If we want to be female among females... it might just help to be AWARE.
It was this in mind that made me start the OP.

Love,
Axélle

You think too much...

Quote from: Hell_Girl on June 11, 2012, 01:50:18 PM
You think too much...

Gemini, eh 

I think the best thing to do is concentrate on the rites of passage that ground you as you...and take that grounded position to accept that you are a woman.

Concentrate on what you lack and you'll always feel empty.

So far, I have various anniversaries surrounding my transition.

January 19 2011: when I chose my name.
April 2 2011: getting my "letter"
April 24 2011: coming out process begins in earnest.
June 5 2011: starting HRT
September 16 2011: starting RLE/going full time

There are also some less happier anniversaries.

May 9 2011: become legally separated
August 8 2011: partner files for divorce
September 18, 2011: 23rd and final wedding anniversary
December 10: partner moves out
February 8 2012: divorce becomes final.

These are all rites of passage in a way.

Also, I think that after SRS there could (I hope) be a time that I could say is when I will have lost my virginity. Again, in a way. Will I ever have a husband? I don't know. Maybe. I could have another wife at some point. I could have a wedding day. It's an unknown at this time.