Well, like the Boss said, 'These are better days ...' 

Well there is crap and power plays in the male world and there is crap and power plays in the female world.   So running to the female world to get away from the crap makes no sense.   I know that I was no good playing the male competition games for the valued spots in the male world.    I could not put heart and soul into the competition.    I did try and survive in the male world of sports.   I played male football, basket ball, wrestling, and track.   I tried male pool, bowling, and table tennis.   If I felt that the male that I was playing need to win in the worst way, I was a true female, I choked, and my heart was not in winning.   My brother was the only one I competed with to the death, because I was oldest and he wanted to rule the roost.   I didn't want to rule the roost, but he wasn't going to rule me either.

Being a woman, I have to adapt to dealing with competition in a woman's world.   I have to learn to connive and scheme like every other woman.   Not to become queen of the hive, but to keep from being Cinderella and everybody's slave and servant.    I have to go through that at home.    My spouse and her daughters try to put me in the man's world to keep push me out of taking part of the female decisions with in the home.     Believe you me, my spouse does not want a beer drinking, dirty white tee shirt, fat belly, unshaven man in the house who she has to wait on hand and foot.    In her own way she is perfectly happy with me being a womanly and caring, but we compete for female space in the pecking order.   I have no real wish to rule, but I want to exist.   So I have to show my cat's claws and come out swinging just like another bitch in the household.   

I don't like this, but I have to play the game to survive as a woman.    I didn't like the game in the men's world, but the game feels natural to me in the woman's world, where in the men's world I could not sustain nor physically take the effort.   By my very nature I have always been more of an emotional fighter than a physical fighter.    There is more to being a woman than wearing a dress.   So I will keep being a woman until that fact is accepted.   I cannot be a woman by myself, for then I will only be a shallow stereo type.   Maybe I will be a male's stereo type of a woman, because that is all we see in television and the movies.    This is why I like video's like Cherry Bomb ladies, ( they are all old ones on http://www.shewired.com because they are women being women.   Yes I know this is a lesbian site.   But that is what I am now.    I am focusing on being a woman, because telling people I am one and getting into a argument even if its a bitch fight seems pointless to me.    I will just bring the bitch to the bitch fight.

So basically both worlds are rough and tumble and men and women street fight in different ways.    So basically if you are a girl, you have to learn to fight like a girl.    Which only goes to say that I feel you have to be a woman to need living as a woman in a woman's world.   Men can fight and become best friends while woman can fight and be enemies for ever and in a man's world you can get beat up physically while in a woman's world you can get beat up emotionally and still do a good job on your make up.   What real man would want this for themselves.

I guess I am just exposing my reasoning for all of this and acknowledging that when I went public on Facebook I was really throwing myself into the female world from which I may never be able to escape if ever I want to.   But I can chat about dress and shoes and make up with my old friends who accept me as I am and share my female tastes.    But again I am 65 and someday may work again, but have my Social Security so I have some funds and can get by.

So I know this route is not open for some of the other girls here.    But if you can get to 62 or even older with some years of good wages you will have an income.   You can get into low income housing.   If you have a biological child your child can receive have of what you would have gotten if you retired at 66.    And with Medicare you will finally have some insurance.    So their is a future for you when you can live as a woman 24/7/365  1/4 and basically be full time.    And because you are old and disappearing most people will not even mind if you are not a perfect young female, but old grandma's take many shapes and shades.   And you can still find many other bitches to bitch fight with.

I wanted to say this earlier, but forgot. This is a compliment for Aubrey! Aubrey, sister, you look like a certain celebrity I have always been a fan of. Think back to the 80s, think old hit made new again by a popular pop artist. Think RED hair and jean jacket! If you haven't guessed yet...it's Tiffany!! 

Quote from: Noey Noonesson on June 19, 2012, 01:39:36 AM

  I have never been married, never got anyone pregnant.  The only person I ever dated was a self-absorbed narcissistic trans woman who may have had Asperger's. 

Dear Noey is it time to share news about the twins.  I do not appreciate you having ruined my waistline.
..................................

I know several highly educated trans people that are mildly autistic with advanced degrees in math and science.  Oh they are just so odd!

I have almost no empathy and have minimal ability to read facial expressions.  Paranoia is so bad that I now live in two genders with boy mode for neighborhood and girl mode as soon as I leave neighborhood.  Today I was boy mode and many genetic women were very nice to me.   They were so friendly.  I was exiting Costco and this young lady asked me to lift her 24-liter box of water into trunk of her SUV.   I guess I am "runway super gay" or maybe my pecs look super strong from triple ply medical grade binder.

I had a good swim upstream today.

Quote from: wendy on June 19, 2012, 08:55:50 PM
Dear Noey is it time to share news about the twins.  I do not appreciate you having ruined my waistline.
..................................

Well...  I did have SRS in March of 2004 so those poor twins are probably ready to come out by now O_o ...  And I didn't have sex with anyone since about 1993.  So come to think of it those twins are probably a little over-due.

My whole life has been up hill except for when my whole life was down hill.

Quote from: Noey Noonesson on June 19, 2012, 11:21:44 PM

Well...  I did have SRS in March of 2004 so those poor twins are probably ready to come out by now O_o ...  And I didn't have sex with anyone since about 1993.  So come to think of it those twins are probably a little over-due.

My whole life has been up hill except for when my whole life was down hill.

Yes Noey you now understand.  Girl is 20 and boy is 22.  Gestation and labor were brutal.  I have been very faithful and have had sex with only one person this century.  Her name is Lefty.

My life has been a roller coaster.  I have had a lot of good times.  Still do.  A trans friend will visit me today and we will go shopping.  Trans people just want to be themselves, feel needed and be loved.  That seems easy to understand. 

Quote from: Dawn Heart on June 19, 2012, 03:21:23 PM
I wanted to say this earlier, but forgot. This is a compliment for Aubrey! Aubrey, sister, you look like a certain celebrity I have always been a fan of. Think back to the 80s, think old hit made new again by a popular pop artist. Think RED hair and jean jacket! If you haven't guessed yet...it's Tiffany!!

I had to look her up to remember what she looked like.  I can see some resemblance to her in her pics over the last decade or so...  That's funny.  Haven't heard that one.  My therapist says I look like this girl on one of those medical shows.... I can't remember which one off hand, but I checked and resembled her too.

EDIT: Addison Montgomery on Private Practice.

Quote from: A on June 12, 2012, 07:59:48 PM
Maybe you are overthinking this. In almost every similar situation I've found myself in, the person or people in question were not laughing for the reason I thought. Maybe he just doesn't like your sense of fashion or something. Maybe it's completely unrelated. Maybe he's just the kind of person who laughs at people a lot with no apparent reason.

And even if he did laugh at you... Don't take it too harshly. People who openly laugh at people (unless the situation is also "openly funny") tend to laugh at a lot of people, really. And for an enormous lot of reasons. They're not people you can rely on for a safe opinion of what you actually look like. If that person were specifically expressing transphobia or such, he wouldn't laugh at you. People like that find transsexualism disgusting, sinful, wrong, superficial, etc. but I've never found anyone saying it was "ridiculous" or "laughable". People don't laugh at such things.

I totally agree on all counts!

In college I did a social experiment wherein we were tasked with keeping a journal of everything that we found foolish or inept, or just careless that other people did throughout the day.  Someone was driving like a maniac?  Write down what they did (after you stopped driving hopefully, lol).  Someone say something totally ignorant?  Write down what they said.  We did this for a week whilst being out and about.

At the end of the week, we got all of your incidents together and we compared notes in class.  We made a list of things that we decided were "below average behaviors."  We then had to cart that list around with us for a week, and, based only on the action that was listed, write down all the times we met those conditions through the course of the week, innocent reason behind it or not.

Boy was that an eye opener!

What I find is that all we ever see is a snippet of time.  We see a laugh, or a look, hear a sentence alone, or a word.  We tend to forget that those people that we see those snippets from are not in our lives in significant ways, we don't know the context of their life or how their actions have played out in their perceptions.  All we know is that we saw them do or say *something* and that's it.

Ever since then, I've tended to put more weight in the actions of the people close to me, and use them as a barometer, and put less and less into the random snippets of life that happen around me.  It's like trying to get the gist of a novel with only a piece of a single page, or trying to identify a movie while someone is flipping through channels on a TV.  You may get it, but only if you know the movie really well, most of the channels are merely noise.

Never let that noise drown you out!

Pondering the topic sentence...

Yes, it sometimes does suck...OTOH if you are going to have a "genetic defect," this one  is lot less "suckier" than most.

Quote from: Felicitá on June 18, 2012, 06:37:34 PM
Wow, Noey Nooneson, you articulate all my worst fears and paranoia. I think I completely agree with you.

I emailed my mum an article about a young and out transgendered child who started a new school as a girl. She emailed back saying "I wish that had been us, then we could have led a better more open life....if she can cope with all the prejudices that will be around and not care a dam, she will make it okay."

I went absolutely insane. I should be out and not care a damn? I agree with another poster who said that being out can have a corrosive effect on the self-esteem.

I appreciate that keeping this to herself stresses her somewhat and I feel some guilt about it. She has to hide photo albums, avoid topics etc. But I know for a fact that people will subconsciously treat you as your birth sex. They will never perceive you as you 'chosen' sex. The Freudian slips from people that knew me before is proof enough. Respect and kindness to address me by my chosen sex is not enough. For interactions to be truly authentic, they need to truly believe you were born as your chosen sex. I need to experience that authenticity. No amount of transgendered rights will do it. I haven't had hardships like a lot of folk here, but I still sacrificed a huge amount to have that experience.

I hope everything is going well for you ^_^ .  I had a real estate agent come to my home today and I am going to try sell this house and move out of state as soon as possible.  I just realized that I am above water on it and it is a good time to sell.  My hope is that I can escape the rumors and maintain employment, etc. 

I guess I was lucky.  My mother was embarrassed of me for years.  The first time I was with her as female we went to a drive through restaurant and she told me to get down under the dash of the car so no one would see me.  She has always made the opinion of complete strangers her highest priority.  Anyway, even today, 7-8 years later she doesn't have a single picture of 'me' in her house and I destroyed the old pictures she had of me in her house.

My concern though is that experience taught me recently that a rumor is as strong as knowledge.  I was forced out of my last two jobs based on rumors alone, so when I move... if I don't pass 100% then it's just a matter of time, having people draw suspicions and repeat them to others.  Once someone hears a suspicion spoken as fact it will spell the end of that job. 

Quote from: Noey Noonesson on June 18, 2012, 06:06:40 AM
Well...  I was fired from one job for being trans (no reason given) directly after being outed.  And I was forced out of two other jobs.  I realize I wasn't working in a conventional industry and a lot of my coworkers are of questionable character and very catty, back-stabbing women.

Anyway... I presented myself as female (and I believe I am female), transitioned.. had surgery, etc.  Believe that somehow I have always been female hence the transition thing...

Anyway often times women play on the ego of males.  After the rumors about me being trans circulated at my most recent job one of my coworkers approached me and said, "Did you used to be a man?"  And I was like, "No."  And then she was like... "Oh come on, you are way too pretty to be a real woman."  And I was like, "Well sorry... don't know what to tell you."  And then she was like, "Oh it would be so hot and sexy if you used to be a man."  O_o ...

That same night one of my other coworkers (who I had never spoken to before) said, "So... did you go to the pride parade?"  And I was like, "Why would I go to a pride parade, I'm not a lesbian?"  And she was like, "You know why."  And I was like, "I'm not into that."  And then she was like, "We have a lot in common, I dated a hermaphrodite once." 

Someone from my previous job had showed up at my new job and informed everyone of the rumors that were accepted as truth at my old job (causing me to be forced out of that job).

The goal was to get me to confess, so they could destroy my ability to compete financially.  They are ALWAYS successful.  All it takes is a rumor to destroy everything I ever worked for.  All it takes is a rumor to undo hours and hours of FFS surgery.  One rumor and everything about me is fake and I'm just a man again.

I know it's hard for some people to fathom a job like that.  I feel like I already provided too much information though so if you can't figure it out, sorry.  Not everyone punches a time card or works at a place that protects you and some jobs rely heavily on your being female in order to be successful.  Think adult entertainment type jobs.  Not all of us have a fancy degree nor can all of us pay our bills with an entry level job at a fast food chain.  Sometimes when you transition you have to take whatever job you can get.

Without trans awareness I would probably have a job right now and the quality of life I experienced in the last few years would probably have been much kinder and gentler.  As it is every new job I am able to find is temporary because it's just a matter of time before someone out's me or starts a rumor.

And I don't know how to rid myself of my anger and hatred for people anymore.  Especially the nasty women who were given everything on a silver platter so they could take a dump on me whenever the opportunity presents itself.  I can only hope they suffer miserable lives and burn for eternity in some hell dimension.

A rumor hm?
Well I turned a rumor upside down and used it to my advantage. When I joined in 2007 a rumor started that I was on HRT. Thing is, I wasn't and I have no idea how or why it was started.. I was laid off about a year later for 1 yr, 6 months. When I came back, the rumors started again. So, when I finally started HRT, I decided the best way to deal with it was to go public. My shirts were changed to my new name and I started using the women's room 3 months into my transition with Valeo HR supporting me. I made damn well sure that if they were going to talk about me, there would be no 'rumor to it. Only facts.

I'm just stubborn as a mule like that.

QuoteUntil perhaps the 1980's, if a person's name was 'Helen' and she wore lipstick and a dress, she would be assumed to be a woman even if she also had an oddly deep voice, rather large hands and not the best complexion.  Things have changed since then - people have become increasingly educated (if only subconsciously) on the signature signs of a transsexual.   We are getting close to the stage where most people know a transsexual women - be her family, friend, work colleague or an acquaintance.  Another real problem in recent years is the regular appearance of transsexual women on television in reality programmes, soaps and on talk shows.  As a result, some transwomen who have passed successfully for years or decades have been reduced to tears on finding themselves "outed" within minutes or even seconds of entering a room of strangers. http://www.secondtype.info/stealth.htm

Looks like I am not the only person who has noticed this.

Quote from: Felicitá on June 18, 2012, 06:37:34 PM

I emailed my mum an article about a young and out transgendered child who started a new school as a girl. She emailed back saying "I wish that had been us, then we could have led a better more open life....if she can cope with all the prejudices that will be around and not care a dam, she will make it okay."

I went absolutely insane. I should be out and not care a damn?

I don't know you or your mother Felicita, but I am TS and I'm also a parent, so I hope I have some understanding of your two perspectives ... And I feel sure your mum didn't mean to say anything mean or hurtful. I think that she was just trying to be positive about the story of the little girl and to wish her all the best in her life. Because I'm sure there are many, many of us who wish we could have been born in an age which allowed our condition to be discovered young enough to make the physical aspects of transition so much easier ... And when your mum talks about 'not giving a damn' I don't think she's saying you shouldn't care, or failing to recognise the very real struggles TS people face to be accepted ... She's just saying that it's only possible to survive and succeed if one can somehow manage not to be devastated by ignorance and prejudice, but to rise above it and carry on ones own path, regardless.

That's surely true of all pioneers against prejudice, be they black, gay, TS, whatever ... because Aubrey's right. Sometimes it really sucks. But somehow that has to not matter.

Much, much, much easier said than done, I know ... but here's one final thought. What strikes me very strongly is that your mum is on that girl's side ... and she's on your side, too. I hope I'm right in feeling that. And I hope tha her love brings you strength when other people make life so hard.

One reason I have had so much trouble with employment is because in the beginning I used to frequent a "->-bleeped-<-" bar.  A bisexual man from that bar (a real sh1t of a man) came into a place where I was working and told all my coworkers how he used to know me when I had a d1ck and how I was really just a man (his words).  The thing was... when I knew him from the "->-bleeped-<-" bar he was really nice to me.  Nice people are often the worst in my experience.

I don't know anything about them but did you ever try using a gaff?

Maybe you could ask your mother what she meant by what she said.  And then depending on what she says help her understand what is important to you, etc.

My life before transition is like someone else's dream, told to me by a complete stranger.  I can't relate to old photos having any meaning at all.  Something changed for me after SRS.  I was on 10mg of injectible estradiol and I was getting too much estrogen.  I went into a fog after SRS and when I came out of that fog all the "memories" of the past... it was like they no longer had any attachment to me.  It was like that person had died and I was a new person.  The only problem being that people who remember me from before transition... to them I am the same person (attempting to be a female).

My personal experience in regard to getting feedback about pass-ability is that no one can give you a good critique.  First off they are prejudiced because who ever is giving the critique already knows the rest of the story.  And secondly everyone who gives you that sort of critique is generally comparing you to themselves.  O_o  The best critique is the one you never receive, to go about your life and not have anyone say anything.  I know that can be difficult because the only way to really test it is to push the envelope.  I spent my pre FFS/BAS days lurking in the shadows... afraid to be in any kind of relationship.

My experience is that if you never moved after transition people know.  When people talk about someone behind their back they tend to keep their voices low.  But on some rare occasions due to acoustics I have been able to hear what someone said about me in the grocery store, etc.  I remember a while ago I had come home late from working and stopped at a 24 hr Walmart and there were two stockers talking and one seemed interested in me (or something) and the other one said, "I heard she is someone who transitioned."  I heard this from about 75 feet away, it was very quiet and his voice must have bounced off the glass doors in the frozen food isle just right so I could hear.  Otherwise I would be able to continue fooling myself.

Quote from: Noey Noonesson on June 21, 2012, 04:51:11 PM


My experience is that if you never moved after transition people know.  When people talk about someone behind their back they tend to keep their voices low.  But on some rare occasions due to acoustics I have been able to hear what someone said about me in the grocery store, etc.  I remember a while ago I had come home late from working and stopped at a 24 hr Walmart and there were two stockers talking and one seemed interested in me (or something) and the other one said, "I heard she is someone who transitioned."  I heard this from about 75 feet away, it was very quiet and his voice must have bounced off the glass doors in the frozen food isle just right so I could hear.  Otherwise I would be able to continue fooling myself.

That's my experience as well. I assume anyone that talks to me knows or will find out as soon as they talk to someone else and happen to mention my name. I live in the same town of 420 or so people that I did before transition and see many that I've known for years regularly since I work in the only convenience store in town. A lot of people humor me though, even though many of them will never really consider me a woman.   I'm basically just holding place until the housing market gets good enough in this area again to unload my house and get the heck out of dodge and get surgery. I do not talk to people about anything transition related and of course refuse to date anyone, whether they know or not.

I can imagine living in a small place can be difficult. I've mostly lived in the capital city with a population of about half a million people and have had no such trouble. Nobody ever knows who I am and I rarely see people from my past except my few close friends from the past.

Regarding being outed by people that know casual acquaintances are the worst. They will do it without even blinking. However, the few good friends I have seem not to go around telling people. I always assume the information is being passed on but surprisingly when I occasionally meet other friends of theirs they don't seem to know. I will get asked if my husband and I have kids and I usually take that as an indicator. Among my friends my transition has pretty much become a non-issue and I we haven't talked about it for close to 7 years now. Most people can't or won't keep their mouths shut, but there are a few that will. Usually they are of the more intelligent and caring kind.

On an other note I've had some bizarre encounters with people from my past. On a few occasions I've gone to parties or some get together at a friends house and found people I know from pre-transition to be there. I know they know of my transition, but for some reason they don't realize who I am. It's really strange talking to someone you actually know pretty well and they think this is the first time you meet. On one occasion a girl I knew quiet well was asking my brother how I was doing not realizing I was sitting there in front of her.

I have not moved in 25 years and people do talk.

Went to  city festival yesterday as a group of six from community and had great time.  We were close but separated and I could hear people talk about one tall friend that was overdressed for occasion.

After festival we went to a restaurant and were seated in back with average age of group about 55. Young male waiter actually goofed on pronouns with an attractive older lady.  She politely corrected him.  We did have some margaritas with our Mexican food and had a great time.  Cisgender people can get nervous around trans folks.