Quote from: JoeyD on May 21, 2012, 08:15:52 AM
Smile and keep being pretty for all of them. c:

That's the spirit honey

Axélle

To Andris,

My words may not weigh much in your experience, but I too have had a lot of problems with bullies (who doesn't?)

Growing up, I was always the weirdo, the geek, the momma's boy, the queer. It doesn't matter what any of them said to me. I am the youngest of six kids, and by far the tallest. All of my brothers told me, when I was in middle school, when my bullies (arch-nemesis') start to gawk or laugh at me, to just walk over to them and ask them what was so funny. Most of the time, they just called me stupid. It got the the point that every time I walked down the hall and saw any of my previous bullies, I would go over to the nearest person and point and laugh at them and laugh, just so they could see how it felt.

When I was finally confronted with being a bully myself, (by some new kids) I responded and told them that even though it looks like I am begin a bully, I am in fact standing up for the people who do not have the strength to do so themselves.

In 8th grade, I was the tallest kid in school (there is only about 150-200 kids in the middle school). I was still taunted and laughed at, and there were times where some bullies would knock books out of my hands and when I went down to pick them up, they would put duct tape in my hair. I would get mocked a lot, kids would say stuff like, "My name is Tyler, yessirry, I have to sit down while I pee." I then laughed at them and said, "That is a really good rhyme, did your two year old sister tell you that one?" or "Oh, I wasn't aware you were so scared of me." Most of the time people would get more confused than embarrassed, but I made do.

I played a lot of basketball and baseball in middle school, and played baseball up until my junior year in high school. I had a handful of friends that will always be my best friends, and they were always there for me. I lost one of my brothers to suicide when I was 13 (8th grade), and the difference between getting bullied before and getting bullied after was like comparing night and darker night. You would think people would have toned down the bullying? Hell no, How else were they going to show that they were superior?

My freshman year of high school is where things started to get better for me. My favorite baseball coach is the high school science teacher, and he has taught everyone in my family, and he is a close family friend. He pulled me out of my first geology class, and had me tested. He knew I was smart, and he knew what I was going through. And he told me that since he was the biology and physics teacher he was going to have me test out of those classes so he can watch over me. I was in biology my freshman year with a bunch of sophomores, and I got along fine mostly because my teacher didn't give a ->-bleeped-<- about what other people thought about him.

By the time I finished the Physics program at our school, I had all the science requirements to graduate, so I had two extra free hours every day to do what ever I wanted. But instead of going home early, I became the Physics TA. Got my own lab coat and everything. The funniest part was when I was a senior, and my classmates were finally taking physics classes, they thought my teacher was going easy on me because all I had to do was grade papers, clean tables, and draw models for gravity and aerodynamics and I would get an A.

He was a great teacher, and he became one of my closest friends. He gave me the confidence to be myself, so I let the geek out. Before the first semester of my senior year was over, I was finished with all of my Advanced Placement classes. My last semester schedule looked like this:

A Day;
First period: Speech class
Second period: Free hour
Third Period: Free Hour
Fourth Period: Free hour

B Day;
First Period: Senior Seminar
Second period: Free hour
Third Period: Free Hour
Fourth Period: Free hour

In my experience, the bullying will stop once you stand up to them. Most people will not fight or want to fight once you stand up to them. But it is a different case for me because I am so tall. No one wanted to get in a fight with me. By the time I was finally sticking up for myself, all the upper class men and women were my friends, and I had about 3 or 4 girls crawling all over me (Geek is in BTW )

It is ALL in the CONFIDENCE!

I could talk about this all day, but I know people don't come on here to read a novel... sorry this was so long haha.

it's happened to me only once, when i was first starting out. i was getting off the bus and a guy i went to school with was getting on with 2 more guys and he shouted: "WTF is that?".  when it happened i felt really bad, it brought me down and i felt like crying. i was very sad even a few days after it happened.

I've actually been mistaken for a girl by a finger pointing little kid while dressing as a male. It felt revealing. Is it bad, doctor? 

Quote from: ThatTallGirl on May 21, 2012, 12:50:13 PM
In my experience, the bullying will stop once you stand up to them. Most people will not fight or want to fight once you stand up to them. But it is a different case for me because I am so tall. No one wanted to get in a fight with me. By the time I was finally sticking up for myself, all the upper class men and women were my friends, and I had about 3 or 4 girls crawling all over me (Geek is in BTW )

It is ALL in the CONFIDENCE!

I could talk about this all day, but I know people don't come on here to read a novel... sorry this was so long haha.

I admire your courage. I only wish that others, including I, had even an ounce of that. If I did, life might have been different, but you live and you learn...

Never actually been stared at actually. HA! I MIGHT LOOK LIKE CRAP IN THE MORNING BUT I STILL PASS WITH MY 'DESIGNER STUBBLE'!

Ahem,
Anyway, I don't care if they do. So long as they stay out of my personal airspace and leave me and my family alone.
But I do get odd looks when my son is yelling "HEY DAD, CHECK THIS OUT!" from the other end of the toy isle at Walmart and I respond. lol

I haven't been stared at in a nasty way for over two months, now. Yesterday I thought I was getting a long stare from a creepy guy on the bus....turned out he just wanted to offer me his seat!!! 

Staring never used to annoy me too much in the early stages; after living in semi-rural China as a tall white male, you get rather used to it. There I would just stare intently back at the starers until they became embarrassed and looked away, sometimes I would just ask them whether they had seen a white person before or not, and would often get involved in a friendly conversation.

When I first went out en femme in Australia, I only got a few furtive looks, and thought "Hey, this isn't so bad!" Some teenagers used to laugh a bit. I was kind of amused by this, because some of them looked ten times more feminine than I had as a teenager. My opinion was also "Who the hell cares what teenagers think anyway? They laugh at everything, like Beavis and Butthead!" The best thing to use them for here is a free gauge for your own passability, because so many people are polite or indifferent.

My last aggressive-type starer here in Australia clocked me because of my voice, I think. She was also the sort of Australian that gets offended that someone dare speak any language other than English, and I was speaking in Chinese to my friend.

So I did to the starer what I used to do to the curious starers in China, just stared right back. Same result...she looked away.

Then she warned her kids (who just happened to be talking about whether they like boys or girls) about "transvestites" who looked like girls but were really boys, and pointed me out specifically. I didn't acknowledge it with anything other than a huge smile like: "Oh you are SO clever for clocking me!" Her kids got a big smile too. Nothing annoys a person more than having their intended insult deflected as if it was funny or completely inconsequential. Then her kids started asking her what she meant, but she was cowed and mumbled "I'll tell you when we get off the bus"

Hahaha Transwoman 1 Starer 0!

Fortunately I felt safe in the knowledge that no-one on the bus cared what I was except for her, and that no-one else was going to hassle me about what they just overheard.

I think I get looked at by more woman than men. I don't get 'insulting' stares but woman check me out a lot more than guys do. I'm not sure if it is the usual female/female look you over type of look or the WTFAY look. It doesn't bother me at all. And it tends to be from woman of my age, I  haven't got to the bottom of it, I'll have to ask one of them when the opportunity arises in a coffee shop or some such place.

From guys I get the face, boob, bum look, in whatever order they seem to like .

But I've never been laughed at, I'm sure I'm clocked all the time. And I don't care.

Which I think is the best defence you can have.

In some ways compare it to celebrity woman who are stared at. The page 3 girls and body model' girls.  They know that the only reason guys are looking at them is that they are sex objects. And the only reason woman look at them is 'good grief' she is wearing that? and her boobs are so artificial, and she did that to her face.

Cindy

Women ALWAYS check out other women.  So much so we don't even notice.  Men are more conditioned not to stare or look at women unless you are interested.  So sometimes I chuckle at the way you think being looked at is the same as being clocked.  You'll "know" if you are being clocked.  If you aren't sure, that's just what women deal with. Ex  Kadri,  I would be staring at you like crazy if you spoke Chinese in front of me because it would blow my mind, since Chinese is such a hard language to learn as an adult,  I'd be wondering what your "story" was. Yah know?   The other woman though was  a vile creepy hag.  Puke.

This thread is so helpful to a girl like me just staring out  I love it and admire your strength.Thanks everyone!

Simply Lisa

Quote from: mixie on June 20, 2012, 09:21:31 PM
Women ALWAYS check out other women.  So much so we don't even notice.  Men are more conditioned not to stare or look at women unless you are interested.  So sometimes I chuckle at the way you think being looked at is the same as being clocked.  You'll "know" if you are being clocked.  If you aren't sure, that's just what women deal with. Ex  Kadri,  I would be staring at you like crazy if you spoke Chinese in front of me because it would blow my mind, since Chinese is such a hard language to learn as an adult,  I'd be wondering what your "story" was. Yah know?   The other woman though was  a vile creepy hag.  Puke.

actually true to a good extent. I feel likewise about this situation, actually makes me amused to think that any TS person is being clocked because women are looking at them. Means nothing, women do that all the time with other women,. I agree you'd know if your clocked, and TBH ? if you see women giggling at you that doesn't necessarily mean your clocked either. You'd know about it, and I think most of this comes from being unsure about our role in the world along side CIS women, its a confidence thing, with out it, leads to paranoia about your own appearance.

If you ARE clocked, better not to make a spectacle of the situation, just ignore them and walk on, if you like smile at them if you got the courage to. But don't ever behave un naturally, like you don't belong there.

That's my thoughts anyway.

QuoteI do have situations being stopped in a shopping / super market's aisle and told - "gosh I LOVE your legs! How do you do it?"

Same. Except not my legs, (I always wear jeans) but its my nails usually ! ^^

Quote from: Kadri on June 10, 2012, 03:01:07 AM
I haven't been stared at in a nasty way for over two months, now. Yesterday I thought I was getting a long stare from a creepy guy on the bus....turned out he just wanted to offer me his seat!!! 

Staring never used to annoy me too much in the early stages; after living in semi-rural China as a tall white male, you get rather used to it. There I would just stare intently back at the starers until they became embarrassed and looked away, sometimes I would just ask them whether they had seen a white person before or not, and would often get involved in a friendly conversation.

When I first went out en femme in Australia, I only got a few furtive looks, and thought "Hey, this isn't so bad!" Some teenagers used to laugh a bit. I was kind of amused by this, because some of them looked ten times more feminine than I had as a teenager. My opinion was also "Who the hell cares what teenagers think anyway? They laugh at everything, like Beavis and Butthead!" The best thing to use them for here is a free gauge for your own passability, because so many people are polite or indifferent.

My last aggressive-type starer here in Australia clocked me because of my voice, I think. She was also the sort of Australian that gets offended that someone dare speak any language other than English, and I was speaking in Chinese to my friend.

So I did to the starer what I used to do to the curious starers in China, just stared right back. Same result...she looked away.

Then she warned her kids (who just happened to be talking about whether they like boys or girls) about "transvestites" who looked like girls but were really boys, and pointed me out specifically. I didn't acknowledge it with anything other than a huge smile like: "Oh you are SO clever for clocking me!" Her kids got a big smile too. Nothing annoys a person more than having their intended insult deflected as if it was funny or completely inconsequential. Then her kids started asking her what she meant, but she was cowed and mumbled "I'll tell you when we get off the bus"

Hahaha Transwoman 1 Starer 0!

Fortunately I felt safe in the knowledge that no-one on the bus cared what I was except for her, and that no-one else was going to hassle me about what they just overheard.

uhhmmm no, in my experience not always a good idea to do that ! won't always work, you did clearly embarrass the woman though so good for you. If anything by reacting to it, and saying anything like that in return to some one who you think are making remarks about you, is a defensive mechanism, I think by saying anything your actually confirming they are also right abut you. Personally, its better not to let yourself get worked up, and just ignore the woman. If you got friends with you who are non Trans it helps a lot, because when they give you support and treat you like a normal person, those nasty little creeps in the world won't be so vocal in talking about you or TS/TV people out loud like that.

I've had it all thrown at me, I went from openly making sarcastic remarks back at people, (which doesn't actually always help) not a good promotion for trans people for sure ! to just staring back at them and smiling, and in my best voice ask them what's the problem ?? This was years ago.. I think looking back at the things I said to people, was really a knee jerk kind of reaction to a defensive vulnerable state I was in. If anyone is giving you grief in a public place, don't be tempted to confront them just tell some one else they are bothering you, I mean like if your on a bus, you could always try telling the driver some one is causing a nuisance, in a cafee, tell the owners, a shop tell the manager.. etc..

You could of quite easily of defused the situation, by 'not' stating well done you clocked me !! you could of instead, said some thing as witty, like "I know what you mean, you see a lot around these days" don't you, ?! in your best female voice *alternatively* insert you witty reply 'HERE'.  I mean all you did in the end was confirm to her, your not a "real" woman as they often say.

TBH, what she did was rude, and should never of done anything like that anyway in public. Some people...

Kadri I hope that woman's kids turn out to be less ignorant than their mom.

The smile carries a lot of weight.

When people stare in a condescending way or laugh/giggle at you - look back at them, have that one smile that make them feel so little and continue walking.  Don't stop and go do the thing you are about to do...

Hope this helps

This kinda sorta happened to me the other night for the very first time.

I was at a club with another trans woman. I was sitting next to a stranger female and 2 other guys. The other trans girl wasn't passing very well (she had been maam'd at dinner but sir'd at the club). Well she flat out asked me "Are you a boy??" in a rather nice way actually. I looked at her at first like I didn't know what she asked, and said "what??" and she asked me again. I looked at her in shock and with big eyes like why are you asking me this!! I said "Umm what??? Do I look like a guy??!!" That's when the other 2 guys started laughing their asses off. She said "Oh... um NO! I was asking if you thought that girl that walked by us was a guy!!" (Not referring to my trans friend, but a lesbian that had walked by us).

I kinda just shook it off and acted very uncomfortable and tried to put off a vibe like now I'm an insecure woman because I think I look like a guy. Afterwards my friend (not the transsexual) said "Wowww you handled that PERFECTLY!" lol!

I guess it's karma. A month or so ago I was out with my friend (same 1 who said I handled it perfectly). We went to a gay bar and while I was outside waiting on his friend, who is a cis girl, he told everyone in the bar that I was trans (he likes to out me.. because he likes seeing the shock on peoples faces and it boosts my confidence). Well, everyone was floored in surprise, and one of the guys asked the cis girl if she was really female, lol!

Quote from: mixie on June 20, 2012, 09:21:31 PM
Women ALWAYS check out other women.  So much so we don't even notice.  Men are more conditioned not to stare or look at women unless you are interested.  So sometimes I chuckle at the way you think being looked at is the same as being clocked.  You'll "know" if you are being clocked.  If you aren't sure, that's just what women deal with. Ex  Kadri,  I would be staring at you like crazy if you spoke Chinese in front of me because it would blow my mind, since Chinese is such a hard language to learn as an adult,  I'd be wondering what your "story" was. Yah know?   The other woman though was  a vile creepy hag.  Puke.

Haha..yes it's nice, now that I find myself attracted to women, I no longer feel weird about checking them out. Maybe they are checking me out too! 

It isn't actually that unusual to find white people who speak Chinese around this city any more. I've heard them speaking it in pubs, and even one convenience store checkout girl who spoke it to a customer. I also forgot to add that my speaking voice in Chinese still hasn't been trained well enough to sound sufficiently female. English is fine. Creepy hag is a perfect description!

Quote from: Kitty_Babe on June 25, 2012, 05:48:24 AM
uhhmmm no, in my experience not always a good idea to do that ! won't always work, you did clearly embarrass the woman though so good for you. If anything by reacting to it, and saying anything like that in return to some one who you think are making remarks about you, is a defensive mechanism, I think by saying anything your actually confirming they are also right abut you.

I didn't actually do anything other than smile condescendingly. The "you've clocked me" stuff was just what was going through my mind. I was wearing sunglasses as well, so she couldn't see my eyes. I was happy to have annoyed her with the minimum of effort.

If they don't grow up like their mother it will be because they have had a lucky escape.

Thanks for the replies!

Friday after work I stopped at the discount clothing store to look for a new dress for my niece's bridal shower. (It was casual day at work, and I am finally un-selfconscious enough to forgo my skirts or dresses on those days even though I'm much more likely to get clocked.)
Over my right arm were draped two dresses, a swim suit, and a couple of sweaters to try on, and the dressing room attendant, a rather dim-bulb looking frumpmeister, counted my items, handed me a tag, and then, pasting an "I'm so smart" smirk on her face, turned her head and in a loud stage whisper pointed to the "MEN" sign on the men's side of the dressing rooms and said "I will have YOU try on your items OVER HERE". I stared first at the sign, then turned my head like I was confused, then read the sign again, then turned to her, leaned forward, and in an equally loud but more lady like whisper told her in my best non-smirk smile, pointed in the correct direction and said "No, I think NOT. I will try on my items with the REST of the LAY-DEES". One of the other women there then looked at the attendant like she was a rude child, and nodded a supportive smile to me.

  The attendant apologized.  I don't know what her problem was, but it wasn't mine. The funny thing was, my reaction wasn't at all calculated. Her stupidity really did puzzle me, and it took me a second to figure out that she was trying to send me to the men's dressing rooms.

Men and women come in all shapes, sizes, and appearances. My wife who is tall, broad shouldered, and prefers short hair, has been mistakenly clocked by the same sorts.  Though it hurts any woman to get that thrown at them, I try to take it in stride, but do try to educate gently where I can  because vulnerable people can be devastated by the same treatment, regardless of whether they are cis, trans, intersex, or just big boned. 

After I left the store - with my gorgeous new party dress and a swim suit that fits YES! - I did reach into my purse and put on a lovely scarf which coordinates with my casual day outfit. Wonder woman - transform!  That gave me enough confidence to get only appreciative looks the rest of the evening. When I feel good about myself, I glow. 

P.S. Often when I'm clocked in very bright lighting at close quarters, it means I'm just barely clockable, so one little accessory (a lovely scarf, a touch of lipstick, or even a little more attitude) and I'm back in the comfort zone again.

All of your stories are examples of a few things in the world:

1. Stereotypes carried on in ignorance towards you by people who are oblivious to everyone around them who have forgotten what it is to actually be a human being

2. Social, political, and religious conditioning on part of sheeple who can't or won't think for themselves

3. Overall fear of people and situations that are different, which oftentimes carries with it great anxiety for those who give in to such reactions that vary from the staring, to the violent hate we see.

I remember a movie about a trans person (FTM?) that aired on Lifetime TV. The end was tragic, but in these days, I think our world has come to a better overall understanding. I think those who act rudely or hatefully, those who commit acts of discrimination are not in the majority. Some time ago, I sat in a restaurant with a whole group of trans MTF's / crossdressers who perform a show in the community. Their director is a gay man, the nicest person you ever want to meet (quite literally).

Anyway, we all had a wonderful conversation and no one dared bother any of them or me for supporting them. Perhaps that was a lucky night and perhaps it was in a part of town where people are a bit more enlightened and educated.

Your stories remind me that I will eventually face these scenarios, and give some great ideas about handling these situations. Let us all remember that we all have a right to physical self-defense if that should ever be truly needed.

As a kid, I was bullied severely by kids at my school for coming from a LGBT home and to this day, I still carry the scars and memories. Some days the echo of those memories are not as present or loud as others, and I am grateful for those days. On the worst of days when the memories are the loudest and I feel the shame all over again, I sometimes still freeze in fear and tend to isolate myself, I get moody, I get defensive, I get depressed, I get anxious.

To this day, I have never talked to anyone about it. The day is coming soon when that silence will be broken, when I meet with my new therapist. Back in those days, the school staff literally made it known to me that my bullying was my fault and a symptom that I was the sick one who needed help. They literally made it known that the other kids had some sort of implied right of expression to act the way they did.

I think I spoke about some of this in another thread I replied to. These kids weren't just reacting to me coming from a LGBT home, they were also "clocking" me due to my fem nature, my lack of male bravado, lack of macho tough guy image. This just re-affirmed to me publicly, that I was indeed different but needed to keep it to myself for fear of being beaten. I did eventually fight back in self-defense when I was in physical danger. That was indeed when much of the bullying stopped and respect started towards me. I regret that I had to do those things, because it didn't feel good. I wasn't proud of it then and am not proud of it now.

Thanks for sharing your stories everyone! I have learned a lot and want all of you to know I am always here for you as you have been for me.   

Quote from: Dawn Heart on July 01, 2012, 04:19:30 AM
As a kid, I was bullied severely by kids at my school for coming from a LGBT home and to this day, I still carry the scars and memories. Some days the echo of those memories are not as present or loud as others, and I am grateful for those days. On the worst of days when the memories are the loudest and I feel the shame all over again, I sometimes still freeze in fear and tend to isolate myself, I get moody, I get defensive, I get depressed, I get anxious.

To this day, I have never talked to anyone about it. The day is coming soon when that silence will be broken,

You have made a great start by sharing with us. I'm sorry you went through that, and am so glad that you had the strength to survive.

Most of the time I do nothing except smile. It catches them off guard,and most people where I live who feel the need to mock me don't have any teeth anyway, so it makes them jealous!