Hello there!

At a little bit over 5 months on hormones, I still don't have any visible development in terms of breasts.

I did notice some effects from HRT - annihilated libido, rounder eyes, slightly better skin, slight to moderate body hair reduction, slightly widened hips, slightly reduced muscle mass, a little bit of a fat padding on the outsides of the hips, slight regrowth around the hairline, as well as psychological effects.

However, most of those effects can be, with a stretch, attributed to either to my anti-androgen (I'm taking a fairly high dose of cyproterone acetate), fat gain not visible on the scale because of muscle mass loss or my imagination, even.

Also, the most obvious effects so far (libido and eyes) have mostly happened within a month or two on HRT, and stopped there. The rest happened gradually, but fat gain does happen gradually, as well.

Back to the breasts. Since ~1 month of HRT, my areolas have been swelling, both constantly and periodically (some days they are really round, others not so much). Gradually, as well, tissue underneath my skin feeling a bit more stiff on touch, I assume some glandular tissue has been appearing. And between month 1 and month 2, I had a one-week episode of them being tickly and super itchy.

From that point onwards, a "lump" underneath grew. It feels stiff on touch and is quite painful to pain.

However, since month 3-3.5 or so, I didn't notice any subsequent growth, sensitivity to pain has become more sporadic and generally less intense, and the lump actually feels a bit deeper inside. Note that the "lump" was never visible per se. My areolas tend to swell less often, as well.

Oh, the appearance of my chest did change. It looks more... Droopy? But I believe this is due to muscle mass loss - I see my ribs at the sternum now.

I don't know what to think of it anymore. Some days, I think they might be on the way to grow eventually; other days, I feel they just won't ever grow if left like this.

I know breast growth takes time, but shouldn't it have moved a little these past 2 months? People my age - 21 - usually have faster growth, don't they? And from what I've read, those who don't are usually skinny people who don't tend to put on fat altogether. But thing is, I have a large-ish build, I'm relatively fat and I've always gained weight very easily.

At 165 cm (5'5") and 62.5 Kg (138 lb), my BMI (and my fairly annoying belly) places me in the upper section of the "healthy weight" range - less than 5 additional kilos and I'm probably back to "overweight". Should I try gaining weight nevertheless? I'm not too keen to it, because overall, I really want to lose some; at least 5 Kg (11 lb), in hopes that my belly stops looking so large. Also, I would tend to doubt it a little bit, because I know someone whose B cups, helped by gynecomastia when she was obese, still grew whilst she was losing weight. (She didn't start transition obese, but she was still losing weight at that point)

Could it be a nutrition issue? Since it takes me about 4 times the normal time to cook, I don't cook much and don't eat all that well in the end; plus I'm a vegeterian, and healthy vegetarians eat well. I've ordered a high quality multivitamin (which looks pretty awesome). Would that help?

Now, details about my HRT.

Since the beginning, I have been on [a fairly high dose] of cyproterone, as well as [an average dose] of Estrace.

Those dose were halved for the very first week.

Since June 27th, I have replaced the [average dose] of Estrace with [an average dose] of Estrogel, because I felt it would make my levels more steady, and even though risks are minimal at my age, a few people in my family/ancestors died of deep vein thromboses and other cardiovascular diseases. Also, it would negate the "forgot my pill tonight" factor.

Since I've changed delivery methods, I've seen little change, except that I now notice a slight fat padding on the outsides of my thighs, perhaps a bit of hip growth and body hair reduction in the application area. (Yeah, in the beginning, I mostly applied it to my belly, hips and back. Now I alternate between that and my shoulders. Looks like it slightly speeds up development in the area where it's applied. But before you ask, it's written in bold capitals on it not to put it on the breasts.)

There's also the fact that I don't feel the hormone "up" in the morning and the "down" before I take my evening pill, since it's a steady 24-hour delivery.

When I met my endo, he didn't mention any worries regarding breast growth, since it was still relatively soon, but... The tables I've seen (which are for all ages combined, right?) put the onset of breast growth at 6 months in average. In a young-ish patient like me, shouldn't something be visible yet?

He made me do blood tests, but even though that was a month ago, he still hasn't sent me the results he'd promised. I called to ask his secretary a week or so ago, too... ._. Mail isn't that slow. So I have no idea whether or not my levels are okay. And that was on Estrace. My next appointment and blood test only being in January (I know, "whaaaat?") I feel I should find out now if something is wrong.

After all, my full-time date is May 25th, 2013, pretty much set in stone. If my oestrogen levels are too low, and I'm still in January, I doubt 5 months will be enough for any dosage adjustment to do its effect.

I'd like to ask for your opinions and perhaps experiences.

Hi A,

Sounds like your development is coming along just fine. Let me answer a few of your questions, but before hand, are you aware of the Tanner stage development guide? It basically maps out the different stages of pubescent development, which as you are no doubt aware can take years to proceed through. Not all development goes ahead as planned. It's really all up to how your body reacts to the various medicines.

Quote from: A on July 25, 2012, 08:14:29 PM
I know breast growth takes time, but shouldn't it have moved a little these past 2 months?

Not necessarily. Fro what you have described, early breast development sounds OK. You may find this stays static for some months/years, then all of a sudden you'll spend weeks doubled up in growth pains you though never existed. It's just the nature of the beast. Good and constant nutrition is essential at this time

Quote from: A on July 25, 2012, 08:14:29 PM
People my age - 21 - usually have faster growth, don't they?

Not really. Some do some don't.

Quote from: A on July 25, 2012, 08:14:29 PM
And from what I've read, those who don't are usually skinny people who don't tend to put on fat altogether. But thing is, I have a large-ish build, I'm relatively fat and I've always gained weight very easily.

If a national survey were to be taken, the above factors would probably not show up as being a major factor.

Quote from: A on July 25, 2012, 08:14:29 PM
Should I try gaining weight nevertheless?

NO Definitely not.

If anything you should concentrate on a good and balanced diet with the aim of reducing weight at all costs.

Quote from: A on July 25, 2012, 08:14:29 PM
I know someone whose B cups, helped by gynecomastia when she was obese, still grew whilst she was losing weight. (She didn't start transition obese, but she was still losing weight at that point)

And this highlight the unique development aspects, everyone goes through.

Quote from: A on July 25, 2012, 08:14:29 PM
Could it be a nutrition issue? Since it takes me about 4 times the normal time to cook, I don't cook much and don't eat all that well in the end; plus I'm a vegetarian, and healthy vegetarians eat well. I've ordered a high quality multivitamin (which looks pretty awesome). Would that help?

It would most certainly help immensely. Actually it is imperative for this type of development, that is outside of your normal growth and development, somewhat a forced medical development, your body is going to need a constant and guaranteed supply of nutrients to support the medical augmentation, that is taking place.

It's quite a complex process that is taking place in your body, and the hormones require certain enzymes and proteins in appropriate quantities for them to work effectively. If those componets are not available for them, they will simply not work as intended.

Quote from: A on July 25, 2012, 08:14:29 PM
Since June 27th, I have replaced the [average dose] of Estrace with [an average dose] of Estrogel, because I felt it would make my levels more steady, and even though risks are minimal at my age, a few people in my family/ancestors died of deep vein thromboses and other cardiovascular diseases. Also, it would negate the "forgot my pill tonight" factor.

Since I've changed delivery methods, I've seen little change, except that I now notice a slight fat padding on the outsides of my thighs, perhaps a bit of hip growth and body hair reduction in the application area. (Yeah, in the beginning, I mostly applied it to my belly, hips and back. Now I alternate between that and my shoulders. Looks like it slightly speeds up development in the area where it's applied. But before you ask, it's written in bold capitals on it not to put it on the breasts.)

If you are not a medical student, or have advanced medical knowledge and understanding of HRT, I would strongly advise you do not change you dosages without prior consent irrespective of your family history.

Quote from: A on July 25, 2012, 08:14:29 PM
When I met my endo, he didn't mention any worries regarding breast growth, since it was still relatively soon, but... The tables I've seen (which are for all ages combined, right?) put the onset of breast growth at 6 months in average. In a young-ish patient like me, shouldn't something be visible yet?

Your Endo is on track with his assessment, so there is nothing to be concerned about. And yes these tablets are for all ages, dosages may vary due to blood and other factors.

From what you described earlier about bud and areola development, you are experiencing the growth that has been predicted. Lots of things need to be happening "behind the scenes" so to speak before you see the hopefully massive glandular and fat development, typical of normal breasts

Quote from: A on July 25, 2012, 08:14:29 PM
My next appointment and blood test only being in January (I know, "whaaaat?") I feel I should find out now if something is wrong.

The fact you haven't heard from him, and his secretary didn't sound concerned when you spoke to her, is a fair indication nothing is wrong. I know how anxious we all get in these early days.

Quote from: A on July 25, 2012, 08:14:29 PM
After all, my full-time date is May 25th, 2013, pretty much set in stone. If my oestrogen levels are too low, and I'm still in January, I doubt 5 months will be enough for any dosage adjustment to do its effect.

Trust me. There are more issues and matters related to RLE than estrogen levels. That's probably the last thing to be concerned about. If you don't have the appropriate development nearing the date, there are other temporary solution that will give you the necessary confidence to walk in public.

Take a deep breath and relax. Everything is going to plan. You'll be fine for the date. Keep in touch and let us know how things are going and how you are coping.

Be safe, well and happy
Lotsa huggs
Catherine

 My breast growth has also been spectacularly minimal, especially for one as young as myself with such well-endowed family members. All I can say is that it happens to some, and the best you can do is to just keep your health up - nature will take its course, and whether you get significant breast growth or not is ultimately not in your hands.

It's been a bit over a year and half on hormones for me. I started at seventeen, and might be sized 30AA so far - perhaps smaller. I have been exceptionally disappointed so far, but I realize that this is simply the nature of the beast. I expected more... but perhaps my expectations were the error, as opposed to my body or diet being at fault.

Things may or may not pick up for you. If your hormone levels, weight, and diet are all within healthy levels... then there isn't a thing you can change - you will just have to live with whatever happens. If after the two-year mark, things are still disappointing to you, then you can have implants done, if you wish. I know, though, that most would prefer to avoid that surgery.

My best wishes. If you have any further questions about my experience, don't hesitate to PM.

Catherine Sarah: Thank you, but I didn't change my delivery method by myself; I wouldn't even have been allowed to do that. I asked the endo, and he gave me another prescription. As for "temporary methods"... Yeah, I wanted to avoid that, really. I've been disguising as a guy for years, and it would feel awfully wrong to still disguise, but as a girl, now... ._.

Kelly J. P.: Well, as sad as your situation is, I'd tend to think that your issue isn't helped by your overall skinny...ness(?) and difficulty to put on fat... I'd like to ask whether, regardless of size, your breasts actually have the gross appearance of breasts, or if they're just a male chest with slightly weird-looking areolas like mine? You can reply in PM if it's embarrassing.

TessaM: Well, my mother is huge, and my sister, relatively large, too. But they're also both overweight, which I am not (anymore). This is no guarantee, but... Maybe, just like Kelly, that made me take for granted that at least something should happen.

 At five months in, my "breasts" were as you describe. Elevated areolae. As the development continued though, they eventually came to look like very small breasts - at a little over a year in. If I put a sports bra on, I'm still flat enough to pass as male... but I'm thankful that they did eventually develop into a proper shape, even if the size is still dysphoria-inducing.

Then I'm more or less relieved. With my huge body, AA's would most likely look pretty awful and disproportionate, but if I can at least have a normal shape, I get some sort of minimum.

 Mhm. And there is always the implant option, too. I'm willing to bet that the contemplation of the morality of implants disappears once you can see the tangible results of the operation... since creating fake cleavage for myself, I know that I'm okay with an operation now. Regrettably.

If you think about it rationally though, a young girls breasts start to develop at around 12. Most girls have developed into a b cup average at about 19 probably having "budlike boobs" for maybe five years. You're just experiencing what is normal for a girl five months into puberty. Most of the impressive boobs you see are GG in their twenties and thirties.

To give you my experience:

I eventually developed into a full a at about 10 years in with HRT. I gave up hormones as they seemed to be not doing anything more after fifteen years.

Since then I have been on the nooglebury system for about two years and am getting good results with that although it's quite a time commitment. I can pump up to a c/d cup in the morning and fall back to a b over the day. I know it's not ideal but I'm kind of addicted to it. Even if I don't pump for days I have enough breast to make me happy.

I'm currently considering combining pumping with E as I've only tried one at a time.

Heres my experience so far: My breasts grew surprisingly fast at first, then for 3-4 months, nothing seemed to happen. Its only recently that they've seemed to increase again. My areolas have definitely increased in size, though not by much.

Its still fairly early in your development so theres plenty of time for them to grow 
x

sandrauk: Ehm, I might be a mistaken, but I believe the vast majority of breast growth is usually done by 16-18. Also, you should know that hormones aren't something that can be given up after a while. If you start, you just don't stop. It's incredibly unhealthy.

@A


Not in my experience. My wife for instance had buds at 20-30 was an a cup for most of her 30's -40's and most of her growth has been in her 50's after the menopause, up to her current c cup at age 63. This may be just the effects of gravity but the volume has also increased with very little sag. (she is 7 pounds heavier than when we met)

She did have large breasts at 30 & 34 when our two kids were born but didn't breast-feed and returned to previous size.

I look at breasts a lot  (purely for research) and I see a larger proportion of larger breasted women in older(over 30) age groups even taking into account middle aged spread.

I've not heard that you can't stop hormones. Why is it unhealthy?

Ehm, for a number of women (I don't know whether it's a majority or a significant minority), becoming pregnant has a permanent, positive impact on breast size. Apparently, my mother was quite average before she had my sister and I, but now, I believe her bra size is DD. Since "normal" growth is supposedly done for women before 25, I doubt breasts would "normally" develop further after that, and I think I'm right. Pregnancy is a major factor, I believe.

As for stopping hormones... Eh, you self-medicated, didn't you? That's a reason professionals (or at least thorough research ^^') are more than recommended for HRT...

The reason why it's unhealthy is that after a while on HRT, even if they're still there, your testicles aren't able to produce sufficient testosterone. Without a significant amount of either sex hormone, health problems, the only one of which I remember being osteoporose, gradually appear.

That's not all. Your testes may have their capacity reduced, but I don't think they're shut down forever. If they're still there, that is. They'll start making testosterone again. Perhaps not enough to save your bones; perhaps enough to have you start masculinising further again.

And finally, without normal female levels of oestrogens, the body's female secondary characteristics tend to fade, partially. Breasts won't disappear, but I wouldn't say they wouldn't shrink a little or lose some shape or tone or whatever. Your fat, which was gradually stored more in a female pattern, would slowly begin to revert to a more androgynous or even male pattern, depending on your testosterone levels. Basically, when you stop hormones, you stop telling your body to maintain your HRT changes.

Hormone level drops are one of the main reasons why old people going through menopause or andropause experience symptoms, and also why the more they age, the more men and women look similar. And also why they often prescribe hormones against the symptoms of menopause.

It's not just because he's old that a man of 60 usually looks less "manly" than when he was 40. After all, there's a chance that at 40, he looked manlier than at 20. It's because meanwhile, his testosterone levels dropped, and as such some of his testosterone-induced characteristics began fading.

Edit: Ah, and if by buds you mean Tanner stage 2, your wife had a serious late puberty disorder. Also, I see no grounds to believe that in the absence of an HRT prescription, an increase in breast size after menopause can be caused by something else than gravity or weight gain.

A

Thanks for the information re osteoporosis and I can see the sense in what your saying but I just didn't know and it seems to be a relatively recent discovery.

I didn't self med. I went to see Dr Russell Reid in CX  and my GP prescribed what RR told him. I was never advised about any blood tests as are advised now but please remember this was 1987ish and I suspect things were a lot different then.  My GP offered to check my BP but that's all. I decided to stop HRT as I had put on 4 stone, my lipids were high, and my BP was at one stage 220/150. I was becoming more worried about DVT.

Plus I seemed to be getting more and more masculine despite the HRT (I didn't have any anti -androgens) and I felt taking HRT was a risk that was producing no discernible benefit. If bones are the only problem I should be OK I think as I think I have strong bones. I got to test this when I fell 30 foot off a cliff onto solid rock and never broke a bone, but maybe a bone density check might be more scientific.

Since stopping HRT I've lost all the weight, my lipids are back to healthy and BP is now 160/90.

Having said all of that i am re-evaluating HRT again

I don't think my wife was late puberty I just think she had very small breasts maybe it is the effects of gravity but I just know what I see and I see bigger breasts over a very long period, if it was pregnancy I would expect more of a growth spurt. Incidentally, I would be interested to hear your views on taking progesterone. 

My original reason for joining in was to say that after five months GG's would see little growth. Even given your first given statement of most growth by 16-18 that's still a five year wait, and I wanted to say that impo I think that breast pumps can be a help as they have been for me.

I -believe- there are more health issues than osteoporosis, but I'm not sure.

Apart from that, I would really advise to go back to your doctor and discuss those issues, as well as whether or not you should start HRT again. Stopping HRT, too, is a decision that should be taken with the doctor, too, I believe. Also, I'm not a doctor, but I believe high blood pressure and all are much less an effect of HRT than an effect of not having a lifestyle adapted to female hormone levels. Don't men usually get away much better with eating badly and fat and all, because of their higher metabolism?

And ehm. I don't remember, but isn't 160/90 relatively high still? o:

Progesterone: My opinion... I read this and pretty much agree entirely with this person: http://www.gires.org.uk/assets/Medpro-Assets/Progesterone.pdf

I don't think it should be entirely put aside; why not try it if all else failed? But whilst there's no proof that it's useless, there isn't any, either, that it's effective. So I would put it quite low on the list of things to try.

As for pumps... Eh, not for me, not now at least. It scares me big time, and I really don't think it's a good idea to try such a thing whilst they're still growing and sensitive.